Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
what is the reason some/most are picking option 2?
to drop the bomb after marriage? :s
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
Why not? I personally don't understand this at all.. Islamically they're husband and wife. Why can't they meet each other? As I keep saying: they're going to get married for life.
My parents got married to each other without ever even seeing each other. Though they're still married 20 years later, it's been a tough time and it's made me honestly believe that engagement should definitely be a time to get to know who your future partner is.
yes, they are. but society doesnt consider them as husband and wife.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
Sorry?
i mean, you should not say may be. you should be sure in this matter. what to ask.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
^ So you're going to stick with what society tells you or what common sense tells you?
There are ways around it. The couple can meet at family events- the family can invite theirs down for dinner etc etc I'm sure something could be figured out even if it's considered a taboo in the area you're living in. But I'm adamnant about this: I would much much rather understand him in the engagement period than be stuck with a clash of personalities/ values etc after the marriage!
By the way stayyabali: What does having a opinion on this have to do with having a good tarbeeyat?
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
^ So you're going to stick with what society tells you or what common sense tells you? I pointed out reality.
There are ways around it. The couple can meet at family events- the family can invite theirs down for dinner etc etc I'm sure something could be figured out even if it's considered a taboo in the area you're living in. this is the way where guy and girl start get to know process.
But I'm adamnant about this: I would much much rather understand him in the engagement period than be stuck with a clash of personalities/ values etc after the marriage! ** I believe limited communication is good if you are smart enough, but everyone communicate and understand differently. **
By the way stayyabali: What does having a opinion on this have to do with having a good tarbeeyat? Embedding good moral values and ethics in children brain.
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Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
In my case, we figured we knew enough about each other and decided that we wanted to get married. Only then did we proceed with an engagement, which lasted for about a week. After that, we didn't have any contact at all until after we got married.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
I would much much rather understand him in the engagement period than be stuck with a clash of personalities/ values etc after the marriage!
Me too.. Sometimes I wonder if some of the ppl saying there should be no contact (esp elders) before marriage are thinking 'well at least they can't back out' lol..
My parents married just like yours (some of their siblings did have love marriages tho) and they are total opposites, they spend the bulk of their time even when they're at home not together as they hardly have anything in common.. In their case it's almost as tho they're just going thru the motions and just together for the sake of it and even tho they're not unhappy with the situation by any stretch I could never live my life like that..
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
Everyone who's suggesting little to no contact: Isn't it important to get to know the guy you're going to spend your entire life with??
Yes it is important to get to know him naturally. But an overdose of information rarely leads to good understanding. A lot of emotions come into play if communication is unlimited. Misunderstandings arise. People who we know, and people who know us, we can spend hours with them saying whatever we want and knowing when to give benefit of doubt because no one is tactful all the time, we understand what they say even if they say it incorrectly, as noone will be perfectly expressive all the time either. With unlimited contact however, that is what happens. You doz not understand the person perfectly well already, and you are talking to him so much that someone is bound to slip up somewhere and say something which may be misconstrued.
Secondly, its not a realistic take on how much time either will have for each other later. The one good thing about arranged marriages and setups is going in with little expectation and hence adapting better in that sense. You talk 24/7 and then itll be "oh we used to talk so much, now he is off to work twelve hours a day"
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
@ Demesne: I can totally appreciate that going overboard: calling for hours on end every single day etc would be def a bad thing and I can see what other posters are saying but personally I don't see the harm in calling / texting / meeting up as long as it is within limits. How can going for lunch once a week/ fortnight or a day outing be a bad thing? I think I'm seeing this as a time to get comfortable in each other's presence. It doesnt have to be the couple alone: it could be with family members / mutual friends etc - just something informal and relaxed.
As for saying something untactful or misconstrued: In the engagement period, I'd like to get to a point where I know the guy's just joking and not being serious and vice versa. This is what I mean about being comfortable with each other. Maybe I'm young and naive to think it could happen without problems..? I'm not sure...
BTW. for engagement I'm referring to nikah. I'm sorry if this wasn't clear.
Me too.. Sometimes I wonder if some of the ppl saying there should be no contact (esp elders) before marriage are thinking 'well at least they can't back out' lol..
My parents married just like yours (some of their siblings did have love marriages tho) and they are total opposites, they spend the bulk of their time even when they're at home not together as they hardly have anything in common.. In their case it's almost as tho they're just going thru the motions and just together for the sake of it and even tho they're not unhappy with the situation by any stretch I could never live my life like that..
EXACTLY exactly the same with my parents. I know that my dad did seriously consider divorce a number of times, but he decided not to for the sake of the kids and now he actively focuses on good points about my mum instead of bad. Alhamd, my parents get on better now and they're not unhappy. But apart from language and maybe culture (both brought up in Pak) they have NOTHING in common. That is not a life I want to live.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
Me and my fiance met at university 4 years ago, became good friends and were having a love marriage in 7 weeks inshallah.
I'm the only child and the ladli in my family therefore it would have been very difficult for me to end up in a marriage where I didnt get to give the love and affection I was used to as well as receive it. For that reason my parents were open to me having a love marriage if the guy was worthy in their eyes and my love was more than worthy in their eyes and we got engaged last year.
For 4 years we have been like best friends. Hes the first person I speak to when I wake up and the last one I speak to when I go to sleep and its been like this since the beginning. Although my parents are very traditional they had no problem with me and my fiance being in contact- we were best friends after all so it would have been strange so cut off!
What I will say is that the wedding affected our relationship alot because of the stress. I wanted everything perfect and he just wanted to marry me lol. So I would have loved to have skipped that difficult time we went through but there you go neither of us ran a mile, we got through it like adults and I'm sure god willing we will get through any difficult times as a married couple as well.
We are not living in caves in the mountains there is no credit to marrying somebody without knowing them. Just a massive gamble. Judge your boundaries and get to know your future partner without crossing them if its an arranged marriage. Our generation doesn't possess the tolerance our parents did therefore there is no point using that generation as an example to say they married without meeting each other and remained happy.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
@ Demesne: I can totally appreciate that going overboard: calling for hours on end every single day etc would be def a bad thing and I can see what other posters are saying but personally I don't see the harm in calling / texting / meeting up as long as it is within limits. How can going for lunch once a week/ fortnight or a day outing be a bad thing? I think I'm seeing this as a time to get comfortable in each other's presence. It doesnt have to be the couple alone: it could be with family members / mutual friends etc - just something informal and relaxed.
There is no harm in that. I agree that it should be so, though in my experience, lunching in the privacy and comfort of home is far better than going out. Going out can be arranged too but you will find that you won't find too much time to be comfortable with him as such because of the other people around. It becomes another dynamic - you can view how he is amongst people and such but to some extent, you two as a couple will be somewhat in the spotlight , and people tend to act differently (this is NOT necessarily negative, just not going a long way in getting to know the person personally so much) in the spotlight
As for saying something untactful or misconstrued: In the engagement period, I'd like to get to a point where I know the guy's just joking and not being serious and vice versa. This is what I mean about being comfortable with each other. Maybe I'm young and naive to think it could happen without problems..? I'm not sure...
It can happen, not without the initial teething problems which occur in all new relationships though. And because of the nature of this particular relationship, the teething problems can be severe. Everything said and done is analysed closely in private time usually because of the need to know the person quickly and the legitimate want to understand them. Overanalysis can lead to misunderstandings.
BTW. for engagement I'm referring to nikah. I'm sorry if this wasn't clear.
Yes it wasn't very clear. I refer to most of my answers in this context though. That communication lines should have no barrier or external restrictions after the Nikah though they may be monitored before Nikah by parents and such. After Nikah, the girl and guy need to set their own limits but it should be approached with wisdom and tact on the couple's part, and no one else's.
EXACTLY exactly the same with my parents. I know that my dad did seriously consider divorce a number of times, but he decided not to for the sake of the kids and now he actively focuses on good points about my mum instead of bad. Alhamd, my parents get on better now and they're not unhappy. But apart from language and maybe culture (both brought up in Pak) they have NOTHING in common. That is not a life I want to live.
Communicating will not necessarily bring up things in common. It will however lead to a better understanding. Now it is upto the couple to decide what to do with that understanding. Do they like the person more because of it, does it help them deal with the person better etc etc
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
^ That sounds reasonable. Thanks for replying :)
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
A balance between 1 and 2 therefore 1.5
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
Yes it is important to get to know him naturally. But an overdose of information rarely leads to good understanding. A lot of emotions come into play if communication is unlimited. Misunderstandings arise. People who we know, and people who know us, we can spend hours with them saying whatever we want and knowing when to give benefit of doubt because no one is tactful all the time, we understand what they say even if they say it incorrectly, as noone will be perfectly expressive all the time either. With unlimited contact however, that is what happens. You doz not understand the person perfectly well already, and you are talking to him so much that someone is bound to slip up somewhere and say something which may be misconstrued.
Secondly, its not a realistic take on how much time either will have for each other later. The one good thing about arranged marriages and setups is going in with little expectation and hence adapting better in that sense. You talk 24/7 and then itll be "oh we used to talk so much, now he is off to work twelve hours a day"
one question I want to ask from you.
why people here are demanding communication/contact.
why dont they complete get to know thing before engagement?
as far as i know, engagement is like you agree to proceed further.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
Is kissing ok?
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
one question I want to ask from you.
why people here are demanding communication/contact.
why dont they complete get to know thing before engagement?
as far as i know, engagement is like you agree to proceed further.
People would like communication simply because they are principal parties in this situation and thus would like to know each other
Getting to know before engagement would basically go against our cultural norms. What premise do you have to interact with a person before engagement Islamically? For the purposes of getting to know him? How long does it actually take to know a person? I don't think any amount of time is enough. Islam allows us interaction to a limited extent towards the ultimate purpose of accepting or rejecting a proposal. You can never know a person enough, much less know him before engagement. You get to know a person before engagement in the basics. That's where family helps. You look at education, character references, family and their values. After engagement you begin viewing the finer aspects.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
One. There is no way I would marry a girl without getting to know her first. I'm not talking western style dating but if I can't even talk to her then it ain't happening.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
People would like communication simply because they are principal parties in this situation and thus would like to know each other
Getting to know before engagement would basically go against our cultural norms. What premise do you have to interact with a person before engagement Islamically? For the purposes of getting to know him? How long does it actually take to know a person? I don't think any amount of time is enough. Islam allows us interaction to a limited extent towards the ultimate purpose of accepting or rejecting a proposal. You can never know a person enough, much less know him before engagement. You get to know a person before engagement in the basics. That's where family helps. You look at education, character references, family and their values. After engagement you begin viewing the finer aspects.
thank you. your reply is really helpful.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
1 and 2. Be reasonable.
Re: Engagement - Should you communicate a lot or keep it limited?
Well I don't really know how else to say it apart from getting to know him! Maybe: his personality, his behaviour, his morals, etc etc etc
you still wont get to know the real him, her,family til you are living with them
marriage is an eyeopener at any level whether your buddies ,next door neighours or total strangers...
best to go for 2,5 and 3....
and as has been said say only positive things..
someone shared quite alot about their family, a year later the engagement broke and a lot of very very dirty laundry was aired...
not nice for by standers even.....