End of the UN?

The league of nations was the forerunner to the United Nations.

"The formal demise of the League of Nations would come on 18 April, 1946, when a requiem Assembly convened in Geneva and turned over its properties and vestigial functions to the new United Nations Organization. "

“The great test for the League of Nations and collective security came with the Italian aggression against the African kingdom of Abyssinia in October 1935. All the resources of diplomacy, and the appeal to the League under Articles 11 and 15, failed to find a peaceful resolution to the dispute in face of Fascist Italy’s drive for conquest. Britain and France, the leading League members, attempted a complex diplomacy of deterring Mussolini with the mobilization of selective economic sanctions under Article 16, while concurrently offering a compromise partition of Abyssinian territory in an effort to keep Italy within the balance of power aimed at containing Nazi Germany.”

“The successful Italian aggression marked the beginning of the end for the League, as the hopes reposed in collective security had been destroyed and the League itself was now once again relegated to the periphery of world affairs in its final, sad phase.”

Will the US aggression mark the beginning of the end for the United Nations? If so what is next? Can an organization as big as the UN be dismantled? Are we looking at the beginning of a new organization that is a slave to the US?

Thanks aishaA for posting that article. I think Bush’s war against Iraq will ultimately make the functionality of the UN as meaningless. With a defunct UN there would be no settlements of disputes utilising International laws and conventions, instead parties could fight out their differences militarily which could endanger the entire world.

Iraq war will destroy global legal system, say experts](http://www.etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/2003/03/13/1047516339.htm) Taiwan News 13 Mar 03

“If the United States starts the war on Iraq without the support of the United Nations, it would be a big blow to the U.N., to the whole structure of this international organization devoted to the peace and security of the world,” said Jozef Goldblat, vice president of the Geneva International Peace Research Institute (GIPRI).

GIPRI, created in 1984, is a foundation under private Swiss Law, not tied to any political or religious organization, which is dedicated to promoting the study, teaching and interdisciplinary discussion of problems that inhibit peace. Its purpose is to carry out scientific research, both in the field of exact sciences and in humanist sciences, on all matters connected with questions of peace, security and related problems, in order to contribute to the establishment of a lasting peace.

In an interview with the Taiwan News, the president and vice president of the GIPRI expressed their viewpoints on the escalating tension in Iraq and noted that should a war break out, it would not only be a big blow to the U.N. but would also jeopardize democracy. While highlighting the fact that the Bush administration’s determination to attack Iraq is not well justified, both also agreed that the possible military action involves political maneuvering rather than an attempt to create a lasting peace.

**GIPRI President Jean-Pierre Stroot said that “the (impending) war (will be) a catastrophe. (An attack on Iraq) will kill the international legal system and breach international humanitarian law. We are very keen on this (law) because of the Geneva Conventions. It will bring very serious consequences for everybody in the world in the long term.” The legal sources of international humanitarian law are the four Geneva Conventions concluded in 1949 and this additional Protocol. **

International humanitarian law is an essential part of international law. It refers to times of armed conflict and contains provisions both to protect people who are not or are no longer taking part in the hostilities as well as to restrict war methods and means. The purpose of international humanitarian law is to limit the suffering caused by war by protecting civilians and to provide as much support as possible for such persons.

Goldblat, also a permanent scholar at the U.N. Institute for Disarmament Research, noted that "the Charter of the United Nations states two possibilities to use armed force: one happens when it’s a collective action by the U.N. members against a country that has committed a crime, a violation against peace and security. “Another possibility to use the armed force is self-defense. But what is the actual situation now? The Security Council of the United Nations does not appear to support any military action against Iraq. This country is not attacking the United States either.” The vice president stressed that “war is never a solution to peace. If you want peace, prepare for peace.”

The motive behind the Bush administration’s tough position on Iraq lies in the fact that "Bush wants to change the regime of Iraq. They keep talking about disarmament, but the truth is: they want to throw out Saddam Hussein. But this is interference in the domestic affairs of another country, which is prohibited by international law," said Goldblat, who has been studying the problems of arms control since the 1950s and has been involved in disarmament negotiations in various capacities, including service at the United Nations.

Reacting to claims that the war on Iraq will be finished within a short period of time, therefore mitigating negative effects on the world economy and the Middle East, Stroot, once a research expert at the European Laboratory for Particle Physics, argued that “a speculation like this is extremely dangerous because it never goes the way you plan once a war is started. That’s always the case. We learned that from the history of humankind.”

Goldblat further noted that the situation in the Middle East is highly volatile, “you can’t properly calculate how long the war will last. It depends. If armed Kurdish groups based in northern Iraq attempt to take control of oil-rich Kirkuk during the war or in the aftermath of a regime change, the situation will be more complicated.” Stroot added that “it is highly likely that Iraq does not have nuclear weapons, as it is confirmed by the latest inspection report to the U.N. Would the whole region be brought in turmoil, there is one place where terrorists might get access to nuclear weapons, this is the politically fragile Pakistan. There is the real nuclear danger.”

Stroot and Goldblat were in Taiwan for a five-day visit. They visited Vice Foreign Minister Tou Chou-seng (§ùµ®¥Í) and Vice Chairman of the Mainland Affairs Council Chen Ming-tong (³¯©ú³q). They also paid a visit to the Academia Sinica (¤¤¥¡¬ã¨s°|), Kuomintang think tank National Policy Foundation and the Democratic Progressive Party think tank.

There is no need for having a UN, when we already have a US Congress. And if Congress steps out of line too, then we always have the White House, which can make all decisions.

Since Bush is a cowboy at heart, so his doctrine is also simple:
Too many cooks, spoil the brook

The fewer the decision-makers, the better. The whole UN "thingy" is just a big waste of money and precious real estate, anyway.

If the United States manages to destroy the UN (which I doubt)it will share this 'glory' with imperial Japan, Mussolini's Italy and Nazi Germany who all played their parts in the pre-war period in destroying the League of Nations. And guess what happened to those facist empires? :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
And guess what happened to those facist empires? :)
[/QUOTE]

You are giving us all hope. :)

Before others jump in with the obvious rebuttal, last I recall, Nazi Germany was also democratically elected. No?

What destroyed the League of Nations was appeasement and indifference toward the countries they were supposed to be containing. The very qualities that the UN are duplicating today. So it will be Russia and France that will go down as the destroyers of the UN.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
So it will be Russia and France that will go down as the destroyers of the UN.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah.. Russia and France and China and Latin America and whole of Africa and all of Asia and Canada and .... just about everyone else but America. Rite? Is there an end to delusions? :)

I think the UN could still be a viable organization in terms of developing and/or administering humanitarian projects.

I don't think anyone will ever view an ultimatum from the UN as something serious enough to comply with. The lesson is that the Security Council is unlikely to ever reach the consensus necessary to authorize the use of force to enforce its Resolutions. I.e. it is a paper tiger and has been exposed.

During the Cold War, I don't think anyone ever expected the type of unanimity required to take meaningful action as most conflicts ended up pitting the Soviets on one side and the US on the other. With the breakup of the Soviet Union, I think lots of people hoped that the UN could play a more meaningful role as the interests of the five permanent members were no longer necessarily adverse to each other. Well, guess what, national interests still override global interests and that will always be the case.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *

Yeah.. Russia and France and China and Latin America and whole of Africa and all of Asia and Canada and .... just about everyone else but America. Rite? Is there an end to delusions? :)
[/QUOTE]
Those countries did not defeat this resolution. France did. The others, including Russia, would have gone along. There would have been enough 3rd world non-permanent members (Pakistan for one) that would have followed the lead of the US if not for the threat of the French veto. The Russians and Chinese would not be so brazen w/o the cover of the French.

The UN proved its irrevalancy by voting 15-0 for 1441 and not following through with it. The French are the reason - not to save the poor, suffering Iraqi children - but for pure Gaullist reasons.

Seminole... there are so many assumptions in your statement, that its bordering on conjecture.

Since there was no actual vote, so one should go by the public posturing of their foreign ministers in news conferences, before and after the fateful Sunday Azores Summit, rather than "they would have done this and that cz we know it".

Telling such blatany fallacies has now become an international art for American’s. Maybe you missed the repeated Russian statements to veto the US resolution…here is some proof for you in case you missed it?

** Russia ready to veto U.S.-British resolution on Iraq**](http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93774&highlight=Russia)

** Russia says war in Iraq a mistake and illegal**](http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96346&highlight=Russia)

Now please show us any statement by the representative so the six swing states that they supported the US-K resolution? Don’t presume - let’s see the proof?