Encounter Between Adam and Moses (PBUT)

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Re: Encounter Between Adam and Moses (PBUT)

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What is your proof that a meeting between Moses and Adam took place? and Moses questioned Adam ?

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Its the hadith again, I obviously wasnt there at that time. So i dont think so this was a valid question. Rather a valid questio would be is it a authentic hadith or sahih hadith.

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Mohammed was a leader of all Prophets? please explain

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Yes this is by the simple concept and most of the Ulemas agree on this, coz Prophet Mohamed salaAllaah alayhi wa sallam, led the Prayers of all the Prophets in Masjid Al Aqsa on the day of Meraj. Prophet Mohammed was the Imam or Leader.

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Re: Encounter Between Adam and Moses (PBUT)

Allah mentions the Ulul Azm in the Quran in 46:35 (the Messengers of strong will). The five great Prophets who were better than the others.
This is not an insult, these are those Prophets who were better than the rest.

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Thanks bro i need ur help, and just tell me if I am wrong anywhere.
JazakAllaah Khair

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Re: Encounter Between Adam and Moses (PBUT)

Brother thanks for the laugh, whats the difference between authentic hadith and sahih hadith? You said that you reject hadiths which contradict quran, how do you judge the posted hadith?

You know what Ulemas said and believe blindly on them, but you never ponder Quran for what it says about ‘miraj’ or anyother issue. And please dont swap issues be subjected to the 1st post of this thread.

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Re: Encounter Between Adam and Moses (PBUT)

**46:35 Faisbir kama sabara oloo alAAazmi mina alrrusuli wala tastaAAjil lahum kaannahum yawma yarawna ma yooAAadoona lam yalbathoo illa saAAatan min naharin balaghun fahal yuhlaku illa alqawmu alfasiqoona

Yusuf Ali: Therefore patiently persevere, as did (all) messengers of inflexible purpose; and be in no haste about the (Unbelievers). On the Day that they see the (Punishment) promised them, (it will be) as if they had not tarried more than an hour in a single day. (Thine but) to proclaim the Message: but shall any be destroyed except those who transgress?

Pickthal: Then have patience (O Muhammad) even as the stout of heart among the messengers (of old) had patience, and seek not to hasten on (the doom) for them. On the day when they see that which they are promised (it will seem to them) as though they had tarried but an hour of daylight. A clear message. Shall any be destroyed save evil-living folk?**

You said; The five great Prophets who were better than the others. And supported it with 46:35

In the first place 46:35 is telling to be patient like the messengers of strong-will did before you and do not be in haste regarding them. On judgement day they will see what they have been promised, it will be as if they had not remained except for one hour of a single day (on earth)…
2ndly 46:35 is clearly mentioning ‘messengers’ not ‘prophets’. Seems like you dont even know the difference between ‘nabi’ and ‘rasool’.

Im surprised how easily you add words and meanings to words of Allah.

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This shows ur insular mind I have written authentin or sahih hadith. Not authentic and sahih hadith.

Check out how u post your views, I can give you differences between Moses and Prophet Mohammed sala Allaah alayhi wa sallam in the Quran.
First major difference Prophet Mohammed sala Allaah alayhi wa sallam, was sent as a Mercy to whole of Human Kind and Jinns(Al-Amin). But Jesus and Moses peace be upon them, were sent to there respective nations only.

We Prophet Mohammed was the Prophet sent for the Al-Amin, am i right or wrong do you agree. Again the ayah you have put across where in Allaah in the noble quran states that there is no distinction in the message of the Prophets, that is Allaah is one.

You were the one who questioned me about the Prophet, when I answered you post dont deviate but you are contradicting yourself. Anyways the whole Miraj episode is there in Ibn Kathir, should be a good guide for you.

If you feel i follow stuff blindly, then its ok but I cant be greater than the Ulema there knowledge.Thats one reason i dont wont to argue after some extent. Because these points wont affect anyones Iman.

But there is obviously difference between a Prophet and a Messenger. This is with reference to your post to sher.

Please, again if you having a healthy debate fine, but if you want to put some concept down someones throat, then I am not for it.

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^ Outclassed means not wrt to Rank or Status, here like how I can contemplate its wrt Adams peace be upon him, the witty answer to Prophet Moses may peace be upon him

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Salam yo wasim,

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This shows ur insular mind
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I have not insulted you and I will not tolerate personal insult.

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I have written authentin or sahih hadith. Not authentic and sahih hadith.
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Can you tell us what does these two words mean 'authnetic' / 'sahih' ??

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Check out how u post your views,
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Why does my views alienates you, to my best of knowledge they are based on Quran, whereas uptill now you only been quoting hearsay.

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I can give you differences between Moses and
Prophet Mohammed sala Allaah alayhi wa sallam in the Quran.

First major difference Prophet Mohammed sala Allaah alayhi wa sallam, was sent as a Mercy to whole of Human Kind and Jinns(Al-Amin). But Jesus and Moses peace be upon them, were sent to there respective nations only.
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You have to show us the differences from the Quran.

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We Prophet Mohammed was the Prophet sent for the Al-Amin, dont you think he was a status higher than the other Prophets.
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No, because its the Quran which has been sent for ALL. Anyway I havent heard this before so please explain me using Quran.

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Again the ayah you have put across is there it states that there is no distinction in the message of the Prophets, that is Allaah is one.
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Please ponder 2:136 & 3:84 again.

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You were the one who questioned me about the Prophet, when I answered you post dont deviate but you are contradicting yourself.
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You can nail me brother but you havent brought a single proof uptil now which is based on your own understandings.

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Anyways the whole Miraj episode is there in Ibn Kathir, should be a good guide for you.
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Thank you I have read it before but you must read about 'miraj' in the Quran and understand it before refering to anyother source.

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If you feel i follow stuff blindly, then its ok
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Sorry brother but its not OK beacuse Allah tells us to use our brains.

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but I cant be greater than the Ulema accounts wrt to Aqeeda.
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I too have highest regards for them, but their understandings were subjected to their times and ours are subjected to our time. Many scientific facts changed intime, will it be that old islamic narraters lied? Absolutely not its understanding which have changed in this passage. Finally its the Quran that is subjected for all times.

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Thats one reason i dont wont to argue after some extent. Because these points wont affect anyones Iman.
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Offcourse brother theres no complusion in religion and everyone is free follow what they want.

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Please, again if you having a healthy debate fine, but if you want to put some concept down someones throat, then I am not for it.
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There will be little to debate if you draw line before discussing.

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Please be more open in your debates rather than to fight, i have seen you other posts also.
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Sorry if you feel that way brother. Theres a difference in our approach. You follow majority to understand Quran. Whereas I use my mind to understand Quran.

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Walekum SAlam,

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I have not insulted you and I will not tolerate personal insult.

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I havent told you, you have insulted me.

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Can you tell us what does these two words mean 'authnetic' / 'sahih' ??
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They are both the same. I again repeat you can interchange the words authentic or sahih.

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Why does my views alienates you, to my best of knowledge they are based on Quran, whereas uptill now you only been quoting hearsay.

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From hearsay, but i havent i also base my k nowledge, on the Quran, but we cant do that only with one verse, we need even hadith to support or at times other verses of the Quran.

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You have to show us the differences from the Quran.

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Yes, check out Surah Anbiya 107, and Surah Al isra verse 2

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No, because its the Quran which has been sent for ALL. Anyway I havent heard this before so please explain me using Quran.

Please ponder 2:136 & 3:84 again.

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Yes in terms of status, they are many verses in the Quran wrt to you have to just wait till the evening, as its there in the book Atlas of the Prophet i will do that. PM wud be better.
But you can look at Quran not for the differences of the Prophet but wrt to 46:35, you can confirm 33:7 and 42:13. Its better you can read the tafsir of ibn kathir.
At times I told you, its better to read and analyze the Quran as a whole.

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You can nail me brother but you havent brought a single proof uptil now which is based on your own understandings.

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I have answered right on top.

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Thank you I have read it before but you must read about 'miraj' in the Quran and understand it before refering to anyother source.

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Meraj in the Quran is only in Verse 17:1 and Verse 53 12-18, (probably if they are more, do help me out) to understand the complete episode the hadith is necessary. Ibn kathir is a good bet as Imam Ibn Kathir has analyzed the complete Quran.

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Sorry brother but its not OK beacuse Allah tells us to use our brains.

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I do agree with you completely but by only reading the Quran, they are so many verses we can misunderstand, thats one reason Hadith is necessary to support. Because, its only when I read the exegesis of Quran, I could comprehend most of the sayings of the Words of Allaah. Just read the Al Muawdaithayn, and they are one of the small surahs in the Quran.

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I too have highest regards for them, but their understandings were subjected to their times and ours are subjected to our time. Many scientific facts changed intime, will it be that old islamic narraters lied? Absolutely not its understanding which have changed in this passage. Finally its the Quran that is subjected for all times.

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Ok fine, what about the Sahaba Karam, and the earlier generation. Since I follow only Quran and the Sunnah and only check out scholars who follow the same Aqeeda. They dont disgress from any topic. If Quran, is for all times then hadith has to support that coz of the colliquial language of the Arabic, we cant understand much of the words of the Quran. So the earlier generation did scribe this which is necessary and important.

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Offcourse brother theres no complusion in religion and everyone is free follow what they want.

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I told you we might have difference of opinions but, Aqeeda is what it matters. Coz the sahaba karam also had difference of opinions.

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There will be little to debate if you draw line before discussing.

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I can point the same fingers on you.

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Sorry if you feel that way brother. Theres a difference in our approach. You follow majority to understand Quran. Whereas I use my mind to understand Quran
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Initially i also had the same thought as yours, but i have realised we tend to follow our own whims and desires. Otherwise Allaah in the Noble Quran, is told clearly if you dont understand any matter please refer it too the scholars, (but with whom we trust and right Aqeeda). But I initially do my own analysis, and the again confirm, so its not blindly following.

They have been lots of scholars who have used there mind to understand the Quran, and interpret there own words but have been deviated. So again support of hadith, is a must.

Can you please explain to me this verse , can I then comment only seeing the words of the Quran that Allaah (nauzbillaah) Allaah the most merciful, was biased. Because when i read it the first time, dhimak ka fried rice ho gaya.

002.122
YUSUFALI: O Children of Israel! call to mind the sp*ecial favour* which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message).
PICKTHAL: O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith *I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures. *
SHAKIR: O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that *I made you excel the nations. *

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Salam Wasim,

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Can you please explain to me this verse , can I then comment only seeing the words of the Quran that Allaah (nauzbillaah) Allaah the most merciful, was biased. Because when i read it the first time, dhimak ka fried rice ho gaya.

002.122
YUSUFALI: O Children of Israel! call to mind the special favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message).
PICKTHAL: O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures.
SHAKIR: O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations.
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LOL, yeh it may look the same but I'm sure there must be a logical answer to it. I will need to look into it further. Please hold your comment on this until i revert.

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I will answer your post with two Ayaat from the Quran.
The Ulul Azm are mentioned by name in this Ayah [33:7], if you want to argue why those five are the Ulul Azm then you would have to go talk to scholars.
Secondly Ayah [2:253] shows that some Messengers were given a higher status than others.
I don't know why Adam is better than Musa alaihimussalaam, because Musa is of the Ulul Azm and Adam isn't. Maybe that should have been the source of your argument.

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I think people misunderstood what the word outclassed actually means. As the translation take place from language to another I think at times people do not find the right wording or even if the word is right but still it changes the whole meaning to the reader depending on the situation and what was happening.

At first we don’t have the luxury to hear what and in what tone and how did Moses [PBUH] asked Adam [PBUH].

Secondly we do not have the luxury to watch or hear how Prophet Muhammad :saw: explained it to the people when he mentione about this insident. Was he smilling or something.

Thirdly I should have not asked this question here.

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^Arey bhai pehle to you increase our knowledge believe me its nice to see these question cropping up. Believe me we tend to learn more, and turn towards the Quran.
Next you say you shudnt have asked this question here, which i dont agree.
Prophet sala Allaah alayhi wa sallam say, in the eyes of Deen , each and every question is permissible.
This hadith was wrt a Woman asking Prophet, the men when they get wet dreams they are supposed to do thats, what about the provisions for women.
Hazrath Ayesha radiAllaahuanhu was there, she told the lady whats wrong with you, you asking in front of Prophet. Thats when Prophet said the above statement.
JazakAllaah khair.

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Salam Sherafghan,

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I will answer your post with two Ayaat from the Quran.
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Acutally you did answered before saying Allah mentions the Ulul Azm in the Quran in 46:35 (the Messengers of strong will). The five great Prophets who were better than the others.

I quoted back verse 46:35 and when read literally it never means what you said. Let alone the messenger n prophet issue.

Brother you have to clarify the above before taking us to another location in Quran. If you dont then what you said is non sense, contradictory, confusing, words manipulations, and most importantly it has nothing to do with Quran, so I will have to dismiss all of your comments. Sorry!

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All the answers has been mentioned but you havent read it.
Check out verses 33:7, 42:13 and then 2:253. I think tafsir of Ibn kathir would suffice you, if you can read exegesis of 46:35. I told you analyze Quran as a whole.
Insha Allaah, you shoulf find your answer here.

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Salam Wasim

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All the answers has been mentioned but you havent read it.
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Brother you follow conjectures which isnt right, how do you know I havent read?
I read alot maybe more than you can think of. I have Quran in my pda, ipod, car, pc, even when am sleepy verses keep runing in my mind.

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Check out verses 33:7, 42:13 and then 2:253. I think tafsir of Ibn kathir would suffice you, if you can read exegesis of 46:35. I told you analyze Quran as a whole.
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Do you think I will take what is add to the Quran in brackets seriously?, well think not bro, because I don’t take any addition to Allah words being from you or any other person on this bloody earth including myself, as for you to refer me to tafsir means hear and obey. This is nothing but a desperate case of wishful thinking by you.

This is my last post on this thread and I believe what I said in my first post.

In verse 2:136 Allah is telling us to MAKE NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROPHETS and in verse 3:84 Allah is telling MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THEM. I dont believe prophet Mohammed would have said 'Adam outclassed Moses'

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Quran is best explained through other verses of the Quran then Hadith then through the Sahaba, etc.
I guess you are the one who is using conjecture to understand the Quran.

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What I don’t understand is why does it matter who outclassed who, etc? I think that, IF the original hadith is even valid (because I too question Abu Huraira), what was meant was that one of the Prophet’s made a more correct point than the other. The term “outclassed” probably shouldn’t be used. Maybe meaning was lost in translation.

Who cares which prophet is the leader of all prophets and who outclasses who? People who zone in on that point are missing out on a lot of more important items in Islam. :rolleyes:

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Why need hadith to explain Quran, how respected sahaba can explain Quran who aint alive today and who is this etc., to explain Quran?

Moreover, most hadith are in contradiction with themselves, goto 10 so called scholars, you get 10 different definations. Very much reason for sects all around today.

And We have explained to man, in this Qur’an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse except with ingratitude! (Quran 17:89)

Allah has revealed the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, repeating. the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah’s praises. Such is the guidance of Allah: He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide. (Quran 39:23)

By the Book that makes things clear (Quran 44:2)

Verily, We have made this (Qur’an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed. (Quran 44:58)

**Say: “Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail.” **They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. (Quran 6:114)

Quran is easy to understand and quran explains itself, PERIOD.

You guess im conjecturing cos you aint even sure about it.
But I dont have to guess, I see that its you whos wrong. And your posts in this thread are evidence to it. You are the one whos manuplating Quran, adding words and confusing others. You should be ashamed of words manuplation which you do.

Public reading this thread can judge from the posts in this thread of whos wrong. Finally very soon when we meet our creator together on the judgement day, you can explain to Him, that why you added your own words.

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The "etc." was supposed to mean scholars of the Salaf and the Khalaf.

Quran is not as easy to understand as you think it is.
About a year ago I was sitting with a Hafidh of Quran and a teacher of the Arabic language, and they were telling me that the Quran in general was revealed in the Quraishi dialect of Arabic but there were some words from other dialects that are used in the Quran. For example in Surah Abasa Ayah 31 the word Abba is used. The Quraishi form of the word meant something relating to death, but the verse in that context doesn't make sense so the Sahaba asked the Prophet salAllahualaihiwasallam about it's meaning and he said that it means wheat. This word is translated as herbage in the translations. On top of that there are other ahadith which indicate that the Sahaba did not understand certain words in the Quran and they would ask about their meanings from others.
Moreover there is enough evidence from the Quran that it cannot be understood without Ahadith of the Prophet. Surah 62 Ayah 2 says that Allah sent a Messenger reciting to them verses and teaching them the Book. If Quran was sufficient in itself then the teaching part would not have been necessary.
And a similar verse is found in Surah 3 Ayah 164, that the Messenger recites the verses and teaches the Book.

As for differences of opinion, this existed during the time of the Prophet and these differences will exist at all times. Sometimes the Prophet did make mistakes and he was corrected by Allah, there's evidence of this in the Quran in Surah Abasa, Surah Tahrim, and in other places. It is because of these differences that the Prophet used to hold Shura amongst the companions.
For example, in Ghazwah Uhud the Prophet wanted to fight from within Madina but the Companions wanted to go out and meet the army. We also know that Abu Bakr and Umar radiAllahuanhuma were worlds apart in their opinions. In one hadith Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam described Abu Bakr as Isa and Ibrahim and he described Umar as Musa and Nooh. Because one was merciful and the other was strict.
There were differences in the Prophet's rulings as well, for example he in the beginnings of Islam said that Israiliyyat should not be used at all but towards the time of his death he said Israiliyyat can be read but don't confirm or deny these stories.
So I don't really know what you are hinting at, because these differences have always been there. But there are certain things where these differences of opinion have come up recently and that is unnecessary.

One last thing, in Surah Najm Ayah 3 and 4 state that he does not speak of his own desire and his speech is Wahee. Wahee is translated as revelation and as inspiration.
So Allah is telling us that the speech of the Prophet is Wahee, so why would you neglect Wahee in the form of Hadith?

As far as the allegations against Abu Hurayrah radiAllahuanhu go, this is another tactic of the enemies of Islam. They couldn't find any flaws in the character of the Prophet, so they resorted to finding flaws in the character of the one who narrated the most Ahadith. He did become Muslim very late. But after he had accepted Islam, he would follow the Prophet around during the day and revise all ahadith he heard during the night. And the memory of Abu Hurayrah was a result of the Dua of the Prophet.

The Prophet was sent by Allah to convey the Quran, and the product of his Da'wah were the Sahabah. It is not appropriate to neglect the Ahadith and the opinions of the Sahabah just because you find Ikhtilaaf in them.

sure, whatever