Is anyone here an employment law professional? I really need some advice, cannot afford a solicitor and we are really stressed out and depressed over a situation that has arisen.
I will tell you what my situation is if you can help me.
Re: Employment Tribunal
Yes , I have attended tribunals representing my company. I am a HR professional. Please ask away and I will help you as much as I can.
Re: Employment Tribunal
Thank you so much CB.
Basically, a few months a go an incident occured at my husbands office, a girl he works with, has always been very flirtatious towards him, he has always asked her to back off etc. but on one day she blew kisses at him in the office and he told her to stop it so she came very close to his face and said something like "or what?" n he just moved back away from her. She then left the office and stood in the hallway, my husband went out to go to the store room to collect some files (he works at a personal injury solicitor firm) he saw her standing in the hallway and because shes a colleague and WAS a friend he said "are you coming this way too?" and held her arm as sort of a directional thing to say this way? (i hope u understand this blabbering)
For some reason, she has claimed sexual harassment against him because of this, she told all this to the manager, who saw cctv footage of this aswell, he is a reasonable guy so he wanted to know both sides of the story. he asked her to put it all in written form so he can do a formal investigation, said the same to my husband. Its a small firm and my husband handles a lot of the work, and we were going away to pakistan a month after this happened so the manager didnt ask my husband to take a leave of absence coz of the claim, instead he arranged it so she came into work an hour later so she is not alone with my husband at any point. We were going to be away for 4 weeks anyway so manager thought its better for work to be done etc.
She claimed so many things and then retracted them, so many things which my husband would not even think about doing. Iv known him for 10 years trust me on this one. she wanted to concentrate on the cctv stuff. anyway we went to pakistan, came back and found out she had reported it to the police, after more stress and depression, and after realizing we cannot afford legal help, we accepted the offer of the police man to give my husband a caution, the police man was so helpful and he said he can clearly see nothing went on here but because he touched her arm, he has to be given a caution for common assault (thankfully it wasnt for sexual assault, since these things stay on your record for 10 years). the police even said to my husband that dont worry about anything, go home and look after your family, it will be fine.
My husband and even me have gone into a state of depression, we moved to a different city away from family for this job opportunity and now my husband feels threatened everytime he goes to work and even at home. So he has handed in his notice, so we can go back to starting from scratch and leave the town.
A week ago my husband was at work and he recieved a letter from the employment tribunal, she has put a case against the company for not dealing with the situation and has put my husband as second respondent. she has added in the extra information in this case, suggesting my husband was harassing her for a whole year and she just "ignored" it. Here in the uk, a company called ACAS tries to resolve the case before it goes to tribunal, and they have not contacted my husband at all, after calling up lots of people we have come to find out that my husbands name was probably added in the claim after the reconciliation stage. My husbands manager (he is also the owner of the company) is responding to the case and will put fwd his investigation which includes my husbands statement and all the witness statements etc. I want to know what is the best step now. Should we leave it and not respond or, respond to it and tick the box saying we do not want to defend. we cannot afford a solicitor or any other help. we do not own any property or have any savings or anything. what will happen in these cases?
Re: Employment Tribunal
Yellow,
I am extremely sorry you guys are having to go through this . I can totally understand how depressing this whole thing is. What I am going to advice you now is unsolicited so do read this , but if any doubts please double check it as well.
Now, the key thing, your husband made a mistake touching this woman, in particular when he knew she was harassing him rather than him doing the same to her. He should have taken the step right away by reporting it to the manager when he started feeling uncomfortable. The second mistake he made , accepting caution from the police. Why ? why did you guys do that. It actually strengthens her case now.
The caution wont stay on file for 10 years, it will be taken off after 6 years if there isnt any new offence ,as per the new laws.
Anyways, so these two aspects have strengthened that woman's case. your husband did the right thing , resigning from there and moving on.
The woman, is clearly after monetary compensation, if she is to be believed. Does she know about the caution?
Does the manager claim your husband was on the wrong? what were his findings as per the report that he is to present in the tribunal?
you need to find this out purely to remain on top of the situation so you dont cause any more damage to your situation.
But as of now, the manager should be facing this situation. Your husband is no longer the employee of that company so he has nothing to do with this case. he should not respond at all to what ever correspondence the manager wants. From your end , you finished every contact with the company the day you left them.
Problem is the police case ! by accepting caution, you have literally accepted the crime. you should have contested it , the police wouldnt have just believed her story , they would have taken it to the civil court and your manager's findings might have strengthened his case in his favour.
Anyways, please ensure , this caution thing doesnt get out of hand , and no one is made aware of this anymore. That woman cannot do anything further to harm you. The case is directly between her and the company now. So you guys stay out of this .
I hope this helps .
Re: Employment Tribunal
This helps a lot thank you so much. Problem is, my husband is still in the notice period, because its a 3 month notice, with 2 months remaining. does tht have any effect?
My husband knows he should have said something before, but she was like that with all the male employees, the staff is only 6 people. With regards to the caution, we were afraid it would lead to an arrest, and because its for common assault, not sexual harassment, we took it, the main reason was to end all this drama and move on. Having a conviction on your record is worse than just a caution, and because it was on cctv, contesting it may have lead to more unwanted drama.
I think my husband is ashamed that he still acted like a friend to this girl even though she was behaving that way. She has even made flirty comments to the manager. I am not sure whether the police caution information was given to her or not.
Do you know if we decline to respond, would the judge make us pay compensation? Do they look at your ability to pay?
Re: Employment Tribunal
Also, his findings show that my husband never did anything, there is an office next to my husbands (sort of a partner company) my husband was transferred from tht office to this one, lots of people in that office gave character references and witness statments which stated what kind of person she was and what she did to my husband and how he reacted to it. he is in the clear as far as the company is concerned. my husband is such an honest man, very decent, he has even cried over all of this because he thinks hes ruined MY life, i tried to tell him its ok dont worry but he has gone into a state of depression.
Re: Employment Tribunal
Hi yellow, looks like you guys are safe. Firstly the tribunal will not ask you to pay compensation because that is not how things work from the employment perspective. But as of now, due to manager's report you guys are safe.
you must call your local Citizens Advice Bureau and ask for help as well , they can also provide you a free solicitor if need be. you need to ask them two things :
1- What risk you are at , not from the tribunal perspective but generally legal perspective.
2- Can you report her to the police for harassment charges?
The answer to both these questions will help you tremendously. you know if she tries to drag you , like she already did with the police getting involved , any further conversation from her , even a letter , you can immediately ring the police and complain against her . This is serious stuff . A caution is not a joke. It can ruin lives. you have made the mistake once coz you didnt know how to protect yourself , but do not make that mistake again please.
Stop thinking your defense , start attacking if this progresses at all.
also just to be on the safer side, can your husband and you , both separately go see your GP's and tell them to record intense stress and confused state of mind. Make sure the GP's make logs if this. In case that woman continues to harass you , and you decide to pull charges against her or report to police , this particular GP log will go in your favour. Please do this immediately and you will be taking a step towards keeping yourself safe.
One last thing, after the manager's report, your husband is now in a position to question any allegations being put on him , whether its in the tribunal or with the Civil police. I hope this clears up the confusion for you.
Re: Employment Tribunal
Yellow, please tell your partner , depression is not the answer for anything at all. The matter got blown out of proportion for you guys coz you didnt know how to react. But get him to talk to Citizens advice Bureau at the earliest and believe me , he will feel a lot better.
and you will feel even better when I tell you , you guys have already experienced the worst! it cant get any worse then this , so that means , you can relax and work towards making things better.
The caution your husband received, tell him it can come as a shock but in the UK every other person has had a caution for something or the other ! so really he needs to relax a bit and start thinking rationally. Move on from this incident at the earliest.
If you guys tell the woman that you are going to the police , she will know she is on a weak case this time. so she will step back. She cant claim any money off you directly or through the employer. She can claim money from the employer , but thats got nothing to do with you guys. So financially as well you are safe .
I still feel its best you guys move on and find another job , so you can get over this incident as early as possible.
Re: Employment Tribunal
Thank you so much for your advice and support.
I spoke to Citizens Advice Bureau but the lady there just told me that ACAS will be able to help us, she was not interested in hearing what had happened and just wanted to know what my question was, I asked her whether it is necessary to respond to the claim and she sed she spoke to her supervisor and it is necessary. My husband already spoke to ACAS and got vague replies from them, they told us to call the employment tribunal, the man there was helpful but also could not give proper advice, he informed my husband that his name was probably added to the claim after the negotiation stage.
We are not sure if this is the last thing on her mind, since she is no longer an employee at my husbands office, she handed in her notice and left while we were in Pak. We have strongly considered going to the police, but we also want to get away and forget about all this (dont want to prolong it), we still have to wait till the notice period is over before we can leave it all behind. Hopefully this issue is the last part of this ordeal. If need be, we will go to the police.
With regards to the caution, the police officer told us it wont come up on a standard crb check, it will come up in an enhanced crb check which is usually used when you are working with children or vulnerable adults. in some cases if you are a repeat offender/have many cautions etc then it is a problem, a one off caution is not that bad since like you said, a lot of people in the UK have them.
What do you suggest my husband do now? The letter he received (at his office address) shows all the claim details and asks for a response. How should he respond? He has to respond by mid july letting them know whether he is defending himself or not. Not sure what to do next and how to do it. :(
Re: Employment Tribunal
Yellow, if CAB ( citizen’s advice ) dared to act stupidly over the phone, immediately keep a meeting again , go see them, if the person there acts like he doesnt know anything, tell them you need to speak to their manager and put a complain through. Sometimes they act like that but if you khainch kai rakho them, they suddenly find resources to help out ! happened with me a good few times. They should be able to advice you fully , on the civil police complaint perspective. Also to some degree on the employment perspective. Try thm again and go see them this time.
Regards, ACAS, they may not contact you, since the first respondent is the employer. please remember , this is a case between the employer and that woman. you have nothing to do with this, other then the fact that you will get investigated. Which has already been done and you have been fairly dealt with as per the manager’s report.
If you wish to respond, then the best bet is to just write to the manager while CC’ing her and tell the manager that you have completely left it all to the manager’s discretion and submitted all that was necessary in your defense. The manager should now be able to represent you in the tribunal .
No more then this. BUT , I advise you to please not respond to her at all. Specially coz , when you get a caution you are also informed to stay away from the person. In this case you should not risk writing or calling her even , because you dont know what degree of lying she will go to.
With regards to your fear of what will happen. Please know this is not such a huge crime that has been committed ! Ok it could be classed as bullying but nothing serious. The employer can issue you a disciplinary warning, penalty or dismissal. In this case , he could get a warning or a penalty. Thats it. if your husband’s report generally reads good character, and witnesses say the same, manager cant issue him a dismissal. coz then your husband could get him done for unfair dismissal as well. I havnt seen the CCTV evidence so I cant tell you what exact category your husband will fall under. Like has he just touched her slightly or actually pushed her ? or made her to walk even a single step while holding her arm? this will determine what action the company decides to take.
Right now she is after the manager for not dealing with the matter. This is the manager’s stance now, not yours. They have to review their internal policy and change if need be. They are answerable for this , not you. Please stick to your guns that you havnt done anything wrong and that your intention has been gravely misread and misunderstood. Please go through this article I am posting , this will help you realize what the game is all about:
Re: Employment Tribunal
Yellow, did you guys go to your GP ? is important, do it as soon as possible and ensure you log in that you are depressed and scared and anxious.
This will help you in the tribunal as well , if things get any worse. Which I know wont , but just to be on the safer side protect your side before any damage.
Re: Employment Tribunal
Thank you so much again CB,
The response we have to give is to the tribunal, not to her, so nothing to worry about there with regards to contact directly with her. There is a preliminary hearing at the end of july.
Re: Employment Tribunal
It was a hold of the arm and then letting go, prob for a second or 2. (in the cctv) the way you would to a friend.
Re: Employment Tribunal
Excellent, Yellow, I see its not even a full fledge harassment case. The woman is overreacting, Let the manager deal with this. Even if you are responding to the Tribunal. Do not add any information and simply write to them that all substantial information has been passed on to the manager , who has been provided full cooperation from your end ,in carrying out investigation and preparing a report. Any further communications will be held via them who will be representing the case in the tribunal.
Bus , write this much and let the company deal with the rest. you just sit back relax 
Re: Employment Tribunal
This makes me feel so much better!... She is claiming harassment from a year ago aswell saying it started in 2013 and she wrote absurd things about what my husband has done to her, which are all untrue. I think in most cases, people claim when the management does not make any effort to investigate a claim, but in this instance, as soon as she claimed this, the manager started his investigation. If all this harassment was taking place for so long, why wait till now to report it?
my husbands manager thought he is not allowed to represent my husband incase it looks like conflict of interest. but he has to protect his company so is that conflict of interest? :S
Please pray it all goes well for us and we can move on from this miserable place... We have a 2 year old son, and he is seeing how miserable we are, we want to get away and start fresh especially for him.
Re: Employment Tribunal
conflict of interest? no , not at all. its his responsibility. if he backs out, you put a case on him too ! Call the police immediately if he does that.
Thank you CB may you be blessed always. Really have helped us so much don't know how to thank you properly.
Re: Employment Tribunal
aww bless you , Yellow, it was my pleasure being of help. No need to thank, just please make a little dua for me and that will be most helpful :)
Please feel free to ask if any other questions come up . I hope In Shaa Allah you guys get past this sooner then soon.