There was a book review on NPR that tells stories of the hardship Muslim immigrants face trying to get to the west. And while the author of the book ‘Embracing the Infidel’ seems to suggest that most of the immigrants are trying to find the basic 'human security’ by immigrating to the west, he didn’t elaborate on how can it be possible that an over whelming majority of people if asked in a poll hate the west while they still would like to immigrate here.
So, the question is to those guppies who do live in the west and hate the west if not per say but at least hate the policies of the government and/or the norms of the society, but yet choose to live here .. how can they balance between the opposites?
There are some other guppies who moved back to Pakistan .. maybe they can share the reason behind their move and how has it been since they moved back.
so you are trying to do the authors job, by being explicit, that’s why you aren’t an author, after reading the first paragraph of your thread every one will try to enforce their "bias"..
The perception generally in the poor eastern countries is that the Western society is a flawless society, because back home we only see the positive while no one talks about the negative. When they come to the western world they go through the initial shock after the few weeks of honeymoon. They realize it is not all that rosy as they were promised. It depends on the individual flexibility whether he is able to adjust to the different culture of this society. There is no point hating the West, they are as human as we are, so there will be some weaknesses in their societies as there are in ours.
ahmadjee it is so contradictory to think Western things are Haraam and then want to live in the west, and yet it is so common.
Muslim people, despite the fact that their Quran is very clear to them, are full of contradictions. I've pretty much given up on my fellow muslims. They want to be hypocrites, then let them. The world only laughs at them more behind their backs, and makes life for us sensible muslims more harder, since pple tend to group every muslim with these nuts.
Remember the Arab Merchants coming to the idol worshipping india which led to the conquest of Deebal at the hand of Mohamamd Bin Qasim:rehm: ?
It is exactly according to Islam to “spread in the earth to find the bounties of Allah” because this earth belongs to Allah and not to any infidel. With the same token, it is according to the greater plan of Allah to spread His word in many ways.
every Prophet’s life started within an infidel land and so it is a collective Sunnah to follow of every Rasool of Allah.
My dad's someone always told people how much she 'loves Pakistan' and how people who leave the country are soo worthless and stuff but her daughter got a proposal to marry some old ass guy in America and even though her daughter was studying, her mom got her married to the guy and stop her education cuz she wanted to come to America soo bad. After her daughter came to America, her mom came to visit her and has never gone back lol
in other words, why do the likes of Lajawab and Anwar Qureshi obtain american citizenships and green cards despite hating the ways of the west. I have asked them both this on numerous occassions, never received a decent answer.
First of all, throwing the word 'hate' around as many of you Indians have picked up from the Jews, it's correct usage is not best suited to the topic at hand...There is a difference between 'hating' and 'disapproving'...
Extreme's wonderfully poignant answer to you seems the best of replies considering what you yourself exhibit everytime you visit GS...You dislike the Pakistanis, even more so if they happen to be religious, yet not finding an Indian board that provides as much of scintillating conversations as GS, a Pakistani board, you come here to indulge...Yet, you are vocal about your disapproval of me, Anwaar Qureshi and other religious or even non-religious people whom you tend to disagree with...
But it's all fine...Disagreeing, disapproval and dissent are all part of human nature and one we must ignore and endure for the sake of open discussions...
Now, if on any basis you were forced or pressured to feel that you somehow cannot participate in any form of dissent and disagreement over any matter, that would leave you all stifled and choked...
Many desis like Ahmadjee and others, feel that by being allowed entry into a a country, the only way to prove one's loyalty is to shut up no matter what...
Like many Americanists on this board, to disagree is to be traitorous to one's adopted country...They believe in the 'O'Reilly doctrine' that to shut up about something wrong committed by one's government is patriotism...
Nowadays, the word 'hate' is synonymous with any form of questioning...If you ask, did the Holocaust really happen? You are a Jew hater...Similarly, if you ask, why are we killing thousands of innocents in Iraq? You are a US hater...
So, let's first redefine the word hate, then continue on with this discussion...
So move to the West, enjoy the security, opportunities, benefits and rights, but never acknowledge the efforts, sacrifices, policies, history and struggles of a country that welcomes you as one of their own.
Hmmm..... The words "selfish ba$tard" sort of leap to mind.
And those who leap to conclusions bring to mind intolerant bigots...Many here who belittle the efforts and struggles of their own, by their own limited understanding of others' stances and views...
Brings to naught the entire foundation of what any nation stands for and its sacrifices made...Just by their own bigotry and near sightedness...
Ameer Hamzah, Thank you for your response, only you have so far answered the question I asked.
Lajo, if I like anything about America it's your ability to descent and you are more than welcome to profess any belief you want, no matter how opposing it may be. What I want to know is how do you justify it to yourself?
For example, there are guppies who argue that Islam should and must be established by state (are you one of them?), which is totally contrary to US constitution. Other examples include freedom to profess one's religion. If someone living in the west believes that no non-Muslim can profess his religion in a Muslim land but expects, demands and fights for his freedom of religion in the west. Another example would be freedom of speech, where one believes that certain disrespects merit capital punishment, and at the same time believing that any similar law in the west is 'unconstitutional'.
Again, I am not saying you or others don't have the right to hold and profess these beliefs, I am just trying to understand how does one embraces these opposites and migrates here and continue to embrace them.
Exactly how the Religion of Allah spread in last 15 centuries.
The very Sahaba of the Prophet:saw: who lived their lives in the two cities of Arabia and fought their whole life with infidels along with the prophet of the time, are burried from Madina to Koofa to Russia to the Indus Valley and all the way to Constantinople; and from the burning deserts of Africa to the land of China.
Ameer, actually I don't believe that the Sahabah were hypocrites or believed in opposites but that's ok. I understand that you believe that it is the duty of the Muslim to embrace these opposites to save the souls of the infidels. People of many religions and I use the term religion loosely here, use this justification. It is a very common way to go forward with one's claim.
AH, why don't you explain your point a little bit. To me, it seems you are suggesting that the Sahabah and AnHazoor (saw) also believed in these opposites and thus its justified.
MMH/ahmadjee: My understanding is that Sahaba of the Prophet never embrace the opposites but continuously strived to change the system. This is the result of their struggle to put the name of Allah on top of every system of life that followed a 1400 years of Caliphate. To disapprove of what is against one's belief is something, and to tolerate the very thing is another. As a muslim, if were to live in a country run by non-muslims or even muslims (without any islamic system), I will live and spend my life following Islam as much as possible and in my hand but at the same time, I will struggle against any system that collides with the boundaries of Allah; be that struggle be of an organization, or as a writter, or even as a social worker. In fact, to think of un-islamic things as un-islamic in your heart guarantees the lowest of the Iman one can have. On the other hand, feeling 'OK' about things transgressing against the boundaries of Allah constitutes towards a state of heart without any Iman.