Egypt pleases Arab Scum

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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As Madelaine All-Jew tries to talk peace the Palestinians continue to knock of the Zionist soldiers in attack after attack.

Fresh blasts as peace hopes falter

Palestinians blamed Israelis for killing a Hamas leader

At least one Israeli soldier and one Palestinian have been killed in a series of clashes and explosions, as new peace moves by the United States apparently failed to make any impact on the Middle East conflict.
US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright embarked on a diplomatic offensive by telephone from Washington, setting out a blueprint which urges both sides to give ground in order to ease the crisis.

The terror is first of all trying to break our ability to withstand and it won't succeed

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak

Although her efforts did prompt Palestinian statements of readiness to talk, there appeared to be no sign that the crisis was any closer to easing.

The new violence came as Israel weighed up its response to a car bombing in the northern city of Hadera, which killed two people and injured more than 60.

Prime Minister Ehud Barak and his wife, Nava, visited some of the injured in hospital, where doctors say some of the injured are fighting for their lives.

The victims include a baby with burns.

Hadera victims were visited by Israeli PM Ehud Barak

"The terror is first of all trying to break our ability to withstand, and it won't succeed," said Mr Barak, who was scheduled to hold more emergency talks with his cabinet later on Thursday.

Conflicting accounts

As the tension continued, Israeli and Palestinian sources gave contradicting accounts over the death of the Palestinian in Nablus in the West Bank.

He was named by Palestinians as a Hamas militant, Ibrahim Beni Ouda, freed from jail only 24 hours earlier.

Palestinian sources and a journalist with the French news agency AFP said he had been killed in an Israeli helicopter rocket attack in the West Bank town of Nablus.

Week of violence
Monday - Jewish school bus bombed in Gaza Strip, two die
Monday, Tuesday - Israel launches heaviest pounding of Palestinian positions, casualty figure unclear
Wednesday - four die as militants' cars raked with bullets
Wednesday - car bomb in Hadera, two die, dozens hurt
Thursday - three explosions kill at least one Israeli, one Palestinian

Israel said he had blown himself up while making a bomb.

There were also conflicting reports over an explosion early on Thursday near the Erez crossing, where Israel said it had killed a Palestinian after an explosion, but Palestinians said a farmer had been injured.

At least one other blast was reported in the southern Gaza Strip, at a liaison office used by both Israelis and Palestinians. One Israeli soldier died and a number of Palestinians were hurt.

Two militant Palestinian groups have said they carried out the Hadera attack - the military wing of the militant Hamas group, and a previously unknown group calling itself the Islamic Revolution to Liberate Palestine.

War of words

As the war of words also escalated, one senior Palestinian security official warned that Israel was preparing a "re-occupation" of Palestinian territories in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Nothing remains except for [the Israelis] to completely reoccupy the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Palestinian security official Mohammed Dahlan

"Israel has occupied half of Gaza and half of the West Bank and nothing remains except for them to completely reoccupy the West Bank and Gaza Strip and this is what we are expecting and what we are preparing for," Mohammed Dahlan told the Arabic-language Asharq al-Awsat newspaper.

The new US plan being promoted by Mrs Albright says:

Palestinians should end shootings, create buffer zones between protesters and the Israeli army and arrest those responsible for bomb attacks.

Israel should withdraw its forces, end economic sanctions against the Palestinians and restrain its use of force.

Mrs Albright spoke by phone to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and to Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami.

Mr Ben Ami says the Americans told him that the Palestinians want to re-enter talks.

He said he interpreted that as a sign of fatigue on the part of Mr Arafat and a signal that Palestinians were looking for a way out of the current situation.

Palestinian officials said Mr Arafat offered to resume negotiations but only if the Israelis fulfilled previously made undertakings, including withdrawing their forces.

As the US continued its efforts, it was announced that Mr Arafat was to have talks in Moscow on Friday with President Putin.

Correspondents say the Russians are keen to show that they have a role to play, and Mr Arafat will seek Mr Putin's support for a UN observer force to be sent in.

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sorry

[This message has been edited by SaeedAfridi (edited November 24, 2000).]

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I am sorry if this is a little off topic, but I think someone has to say it.

I understand the emotions that are running through many a muslim hearts, however, lets look at this in order to seek our goal or a tangible one atleast.

Continued violence will not allow the Israelis to breathe easily, I agree, however, this is not a lasting solution. How many more deaths will make another death "old news" ?
If 200+ deaths are not able to change the world's view about israel, then shouting rhetoric at discussion forums will do little apart from vent personal anger to no avail.
We need to change the way we think and the way we respond.
The palestinians have no option but to take up suicide protests, we do, so for the sake of those losing their lives every day, lets think, contemplate and re-examine our ways.

About a decade ago one of my cousins used his position at his university to organise a rally against the gulf war and managed to get the attention of the media (by sheer force of will).

Proud at his acheivement he expected his father to be imensely proud too.
However, his father sat before him on the dinner table, sad, dejected and very moved.
On inquiring about my uncle's dejection he responded with an almost tearful anger. A good translation of his words would be,

" I can see the future today. The future of the next 20 years. My son and nephew are doing exactly what my cousins and I did twenty years ago. It saddens me to think that we have learned nothing in that time. Our blood is getting cheaper by the day. If this is what is to happen, then we will stay as dust, the rest of your lives. Maybe my grandson will learn what we did not".

Coming from a man who served in one of the toughest military units there is and having in 5 wars since the 50s, that was a summary of his experiences. Sadly, he was right. Nothing has changed, nothing will change.

We still proceed in the same manner. A streak of individual bravery, naive sacrifice and sometime odd-defying valour all are in the muslim reputaoire, but what is the result ?
We still resist enemies in the same manner. I am afraid this is a battle of great disproportions. Lets talk about bringing proportions into it.

If we are provided with the fortune of not being the firing line, lets use our heads and change our thinking.

I know many people consider the US to be biased and they are right. However, why should they be UN BIASED, what are they to gain by being so ?

What matters is not MORAL opinion, but political/economical advisory.

Whether or not the US displays any remorse on its backing to Israel has nothing to do with Jehad or muslim blood. It is economics.

Instead of us talking about the "jehad" option which the palestinians are only able to exercise at a limited scale, we need to talk about what the right way forward is ?

Through out the many WRONG attitudes that have been displayed I think the few right ones have to be addressed.

The Iranian call for increased tensions and call for a pan-islamic jehad is very hollow at this moment in time, we do not have the co-ordination or collaboration in command to take on a formiddable US-Rus-Israel political alliance.

However, there were proposals that are being viewed as the way forward in Future.

Indonesia, Syria, Saudia, Iran and Libya put forward a meaningful proposal of screening and scrutinising investment in there countries. The exact wordings of the proposal I am unaware of however a trusted friend of mine relayed the jist of it while giving a press conference to an Arab media news team.

The above 5 countries are drafting a proposal that would bar investment in their countries of companies that are also investing directly in Israel and (most importantly) prefer European consortiums to US ones when dealing with future development projects.
In the case of Libya and Iran this is a considerable red hearing, however, the other three would pack a formiddable economic punch.

Us defence companies spent a small fortune trying to convince them that this is an "UNFAIR" association of their businesses with international politics but it seems that Prince Abdullah has his mind set on other things.

This is significant. It shows a shift in policy. A pro-European policy in major muslim nations will tip considerable business to the EU from the US and would also work in bringing the Turks in frame. No future MUSLIM framework without the Turks is viable anyway. They will hold a significant importance in times to come.

However, this is the begining. Maybe a few years from now, we will see if MUSLIMS would still have to throw stones and blast isolated suicide bombs to exercise pressure.

What is needed is a shift in the way we think and plan.

When Pakistan and Iran agreed on certain naval agreements with the Saudis earlier this year, I remember seeing a sparkle in the eyes of my uncle. He sat before me after jumma and said to me,

" It has begun my son, it has begun".

That look in his eye was the look that I want to see in all our elders' eyes. The look of hope.
Hope that finally we will not have to scarifice our youth just to be heard.

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A very thought provoking and refreshing way to move Saaed Afridi. I agree that the Palestinians, Arabs and the wider Muslim world have to adopt a more realistic and multi-dimensional approach to achivieving justice for the Palestinians. This has to involve a mixture of military, diplomatic and economic pressure on the state of Israel to pressure it to leave the occupied Arab lands. This can be achieved by the Arab and Muslim world without the need for some grand Islamic unity exercise?

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I am afraid there is more to this co-operation than a unity exercise.

Before we are even able to field multi-nation forces there needs to be a protocol of operation.

These exercises are not worthy of any UNITY or joint deployment at present, however, the development of a combined protocol of operation is good news. The reason being that the Saudis and increasingly more the Iranians are getting more and more co-op from Islamabad regarding strategies and deployment.

These are the building blocks of a joint deployment. These have to be tested and scrutinised.

Hence the exercises and treaties.

However, just to give an idea. EU did teh same from 19997 onwards, they are now talking about a "stand-down" joint defence force seperate but in co-operation with NATO.

Alliances, especially military, need to be built steadily.

The Egypt-Syria debacle in their joint adventure was an eye opener and both realised that the only co-ordination they had was in a single squadron on the Syrian side with analysts and co-ordinators of a training unit in Egypt. (Both Pakistani)

However, this is one aspect. The entertaining of a energy export body is a better way of harmonising shortages in muslim nations.

However, the Iranian and Saudi view that Pakistan wrongly sees itself as South Asian is a valid concern. Iranians consider a Central Asian while the Saudis go outright for a Middle Eastern ID.

I was interested by this quote made by a Saudi official. When asked where does he see Pakistan with regards to its relations with Saudia, he, (for his credit), quoted a Pakistani, Abdul-Rab Nistar to be precise.

"The ideology of a people is important when we speak about co-operation. We should remove all barriers."

The rest of the speach by Nishtar, (that he did not mention) says,

"if we(a five days old Pakistan) are to align ourselves with the muslims a regression towards arabic and persian traditions and an emphasis on English is elementary"

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Damn this new kid can write.
Good posts Afridi.
Now i wonder where NYA is.
I will reply to your posts when i have more time.
Like tonight.

CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

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I would suggest you change your nick. You can say what ever you want, even if its "can chita ay" (crow is white). I got no "beef" with you.<<<

Kaleem-Butter. Do you represent all the Cows (including Mad ones), if not, I suggest that you change your name to Kaleem-Lard.

nice language and racist attitude from a mod.....NY Ahamadi, i dont think I like u calling the arabs "scum"....u are a Muslim arent you?<<<

HK, you have a point, but I intended to refer to only a select group of Arabs as Scum- those in Power, and those who have self appointed themselves (either as illegitimate Monarchs, Shieks or plain Dictators). Those are the ones that don’t want to see peace in the Middle East, as that will only weaken their own hold on the incognizance people that they rule. My reference was not to your average Camel riding Arab. Just as when Xtreme refers to Israelis as Scum, he means just those in power and not your average peace loving Jew. I hope that clarifies it for you. You should also note that it is very fashionable to ridicule Jews among some uneducated people, but it only serves the purpose of exposing their little brains than to get anything meaningful done.

Taleban controld 95% of the country. If anyone can prove it otherwise or has the balls to change the status of Afghanistan then they are welcome to do so. <<<<

Mundyaa, are you saying that the Islamic countries that do not recognize Taliban regime have no balls? Wao.. that was a brilliant stand by you. Congratulations.

Malik, now you are acting like a real crybaby, so I will just let you cry a little.

Xtremo. Did you try making a point? I missed it.

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Egypt's little move has sent shockwaves throughout the Zionist establishment worldwide but they will be in national mourning after they hear that Israel has in fact admitted that it is not winning the diplomatic, political and military war against the Palestinians after two months of unending fighting.

ISRAEL ON THE ROAD TO RUIN AND DEFEAT!

Israel rethinks military tactics

The Israeli Government says it has ruled out immediate military action in response to Palestinian attacks that have killed Israeli soldiers and civilians in recent days.
Instead, Israel will respond in a "more efficient way", Deputy Defence Minister Ephraim Sneh said on Friday.

A few hours later an Israeli civilian was shot dead by Palestinian gunmen in the West Bank, reports say.

Meanwhile both sides have promised to study peace proposals put forward by Russian President Vladimir Putin, a Russian minister said.

Mr Sneh's comments came after an emergency meeting of Israel's security cabinet, which gave Prime Minister Ehud Barak a free hand to find new ways to end nearly two months of violence that has cost more than 260 lives, mostly Palestinian.

A BBC correspondent in Jerusalem says several Israeli ministers, including Mr Barak himself, are worried that previous Israeli military strikes against Palestinian targets have damaged Israel's image and have been counter-productive.

"We have to respond in a more intelligent and efficient way to cause the least possible damage on the Israeli side," Mr Sneh told Israeli army radio on Friday.

"We must not act as if it's a game of ping-pong and attack the night after an attack, as everyone expects."

The security cabinet, which comprises 11 cabinet ministers and is advised by the Israeli military, gave the "green light" to "a series of operations to prevent attacks and punish those who ordered them," Mr Sneh said.

Many observers had been expecting a strong military response from Israel after a car bomb exploded on Wednesday in the northern Israeli town of Hadera, killing two Israeli citizens.

Only two days before, Israel had launched its biggest military operation yet in the current unrest after two teachers were killed in an attack on a Jewish school bus in the Gaza Strip.

That resulted in Egypt - the leading Arab nation in attempts to bring the two sides together - recalling its ambassador to Israel.

Mr Barak is sending a his senior security official, Danny Yatom, to Egypt on Sunday for talks with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.

It has emerged that Mr Sneh held a surprise meeting on Thursday with a senior aide to the Mr Arafat, Tayeb Abdel-Rahim.

Mr Sneh said that, although no substantive agreements had been reached, "there is to be a continuation to this dialogue."

Optimism in Moscow

Some hope of a diplomatic breakthrough emerged in Moscow on Friday where the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, held talks with President Putin.

During the talks both men spoke by telephone with the Israeli prime minister.

Mr Arafat and Mr Barak "pledged to analyse" the Russian proposals which were met "with understanding", Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Avdeyev told reporters.

Mr Arafat, like most of the Arab world, has been critical of the United States as a mediator, considering it pro-Israeli, and been keen to promote Russia's role in the peace process.

Earlier, Mr Putin said that unless the violence was sharply reduced, "all of these meetings will be useless," warning that the Middle East was "on the verge of a catastrophe".

Violence continues

An Israeli man was killed by a Palestinian gunman near the West Bank town of Nablus on Friday, Israeli officials said.

There have also been reports of sporadic clashes in other parts of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip after Muslims held traditional Friday prayers.

Thousands of Palestinians thronged the streets of the West Bank town of Nablus, demanding revenge as they attended the funeral of a bomb-maker for the militant group Hamas who was killed in an explosion on Thursday.

Earlier on Friday, two Palestinians were reported to have died from bullet wounds incurred earlier this week.

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NY, Butter is my last name! (pronounced "Bhatter" in panjabi)

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ny...jub tumain har taraf se laataain par rahee hoon to mardd bun karr laataain khaoo...aur dosroon ke naam mut begaaroo... sala you cant even take the truth about your jewish friens...bastards...stop kissing their asses...

malik and others...it seems as if you have steped on nya's 'kutti huee" tail...he is screaming like hell and calling other names...

hey muzna how the hell can you make this idiot a moderator...a person who doesnt even know how to talk to others with respect...

i am just angry to see his replies to others....who share some what different views then his...grow up nya!!!

Jaagtey rehna...merey pe na rehna ;)

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I don't see why people get upset when NYAHMADI, posts anything against muslims or islam, what else do you expect him to do?
Every muslim knows that the ahmadis/qadyanis are not muslims and that they are a jewish and british supported organization, whose sole purpose is to hurt Islam. So, ofcourse NYAHMADI posts what he posts, and I for one do not mind him posting that kind of stuff, that is his job and he is doing it quite well.
So why blame him or get mad at him, I don't get mad at a dog when a dog barks, it's a dog it's suppose to bark, you cant blame a dog for being a dog.

Ofcourse, arguing with NYahmadi, is an exercise in futility, there is nothing that can be gained by doing it.If you jump around in filth, what's going to happen, you will get some filth on your clothes, but what does the filth loses, nothing, it's filth and it will stay filth.

All thats going to happen is you will have to take a few extra showers and your drycleaning bill will go up.

So post away nyahmadi, I for one will never blame you for barking.

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PZ and CD. Please use your mouth to talk. Unless it is a family tradition. If you are accusing me for being rude to those with whom I don't agree, what exactly you think that you are doing? I guess you have no clue what you are doing. But welcome to the discussion and show some intelligent stuff.

Kaleem.. I am very impressed by your demeanor.

[This message has been edited by NYAhmadi (edited November 24, 2000).]

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Hey guys & girls,
What happened? We have let this important topic grind to a halt.
So Arafat seems to be bending over backwards (yet again!) to please the US master, or am I misreading the situation?
There seems to be only 1 language the zionists understand - casualties and wallet - so this pressure needs to be kept up. BTW, I hope people who cannot / are not directly involved are at least financially contributing to the Palestine funds.
Arafat neeeds to stick to his guns for a change and not give up the right of return (not only in principle) and jurisdiction over Al-Quds.
Let's have some more thoughts on the matter from guppers.

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Awam ki Awaz the Middle East Peace Process has moved on considerably from the time of this topic matter. It would be ideal if you could open another thread to discuss the ongoing talks. That would give us all the chance to discuss the present developments without recourse to this very specifically-titled thread.

I appreciate your help.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Mursalin (edited January 05, 2001).]

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Re: Egypt pleases Arab Scum

Now you see this happening in the Arab

It’s the end of the world

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Re: Egypt pleases Arab Scum

You bumped a 9 year old thread, that Arab scum Hosni Mubarak is gone from Egypt.