Effects of Sept. 11 on Economy

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
CM I agree that the economy was already up the river with only 1 paddle to get back but after 9/11 the paddle was lost and it caused a weak world economy to become even weaker. Uncertainty after the attacks caused business around the block to cut their spending/investment by even more.
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The investment thing is not true. If it was the Euro would have achieved parity with the Dollar back in Sept 11th 2001. It did not. Rather it happened 1 year later. Why? The scandals, the trillion dollar lawsuit, the fall of the dollar, the protectionist tarrifs of Bush and the increase in the US govt debt. That happened all after Sept 11th. But no way caused by Sept 11th. The US economy was not gonna stagnate without or with sept 11th. The natural course of things was that things were gonna get worse and they did. Sept 11th might have hurried things along, but then it did boost consumer spending and confidence for some time? After Sept 11th the Stock market rose considerable points for a short period and then fell due to external factors not due to Sept 11th which had pasted.

Spock visas are not an aspect of the economy. Those are moves by the US govt. They have a limited effect on the US economy as international labor makes a small minority of the US workforce. Now please explain to me how 163,000 people can have such a drastic effect on a workforce of more than 20 million (and that is an extremely low number, the actual US force is larger). Pakistans economy has nothing to do with it, so there is no need to comment on the issue. I still dont see how removing visa restrictions killed the US economy? Also i thought you were discussing the global economy?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *

The investment thing is not true. If it was the Euro would have achieved parity with the Dollar back in Sept 11th 2001. It did not. Rather it happened 1 year later. Why? The scandals, the trillion dollar lawsuit, the fall of the dollar, the protectionist tarrifs of Bush and the increase in the US govt debt. That happened all after Sept 11th. But no way caused by Sept 11th. The US economy was not gonna stagnate without or with sept 11th. The natural course of things was that things were gonna get worse and they did. Sept 11th might have hurried things along, but then it did boost consumer spending and confidence for some time? After Sept 11th the Stock market rose considerable points for a short period and then fell due to external factors not due to Sept 11th which had pasted.

Spock visas are not an aspect of the economy. Those are moves by the US govt. They have a limited effect on the US economy as international labor makes a small minority of the US workforce. Now please explain to me how 163,000 people can have such a drastic effect on a workforce of more than 20 million (and that is an extremely low number, the actual US force is larger). Pakistans economy has nothing to do with it, so there is no need to comment on the issue. I still dont see how removing visa restrictions killed the US economy? Also i thought you were discussing the global economy?
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CM, I dont think you know anything about the economy at all... Like I said before, you dont even know what H1s are, and they are directly related to the US economies... This is not an ordinary visit/business visa that you normally see, so before wasting your time, do read what I was referring to .Please read that post over again, when did I say the reversal of visa policy affected the economy?? I merely said that because of your beloved attacks, all of a sudden they started changing policies, put a stringent control on H1s... Now how do you explain their generous attitude in handing out H1s before Sept11th, and the strict restraint afterwards? Let me know what else happened on Sept11th that caused this change. This is just one example to show you how the economy has sufferred because of the blessed attacks.

That Pakistan economy thing was an analogy, since you were stuck up in believing a war can not have disastrous effects on the economy. Pakistans entire economy fell, as if it were standing on meagre toothpicks after those two confrontations with India. Now globally speaking, Paksitan was already on sanctions in the pre 9/11 time, the effects werent apparent, but then again, our economy is, and was never stable, thanks to General sahib and his power hungry policies.

Another interesting article I read in a paper... Since the US did not issue any Student Visas to students from the Arab countries, the large number of universities have had budgets cuts, since international students paid a higher fee than american students. The most seriously affected were the flight schools in the US, where many students, sponsored by airlines such as Gulf, Emirates studied and paid alot of tuition fee.

Spock i have yet to see you give evidence that sept 11th caused the problems. UTD agrees that the US situation was just the same back in the summer of 2001 than it is now. Only now it is worse. Now you say i dont know anything about the economy, well everybody has the right to think what they want even if it is wrong. Now spock before you jump to conclusions, where did i say i do not know what an H1 visa is? Rather my question was how does 163,000 workers affect the US economy of more than 20 million in such a drastic way? The H1 visas had no affect on the economy, as the number is too small to even cause a change in a graph. I have read the article. And once again, the visa situation is a policy in relation to Septh 11th. It is not a policy directly related to the economic situation of the country, which has been going down hil since 2000.

Pakistans economy is not related to the topic, open a thread if you want to discuss it. Student visas? Not related to the economy directly. Rather indirectly they bring in foriegn capital and increase consumer spending. But they dont have the drastic effect of shutting down the economy. So you may continue to insult etc. Yet you shown little proof that the US economy went down hill just because of the attacks.

IT is the most hardest hit of the sectors of the US economy with the unemployment among the IT people running as high as 5.3 percent. The second hardest hit is the telecom with unemployment in the US among electrical engineers as high as 4.8 percent.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Spock i have yet to see you give evidence that sept 11th caused the problems. UTD agrees that the US situation was just the same back in the summer of 2001 than it is now. Only now it is worse. Now you say i dont know anything about the economy, well everybody has the right to think what they want even if it is wrong. Now spock before you jump to conclusions, where did i say i do not know what an H1 visa is? Rather my question was how does 163,000 workers affect the US economy of more than 20 million in such a drastic way? The H1 visas had no affect on the economy, as the number is too small to even cause a change in a graph. I have read the article. And once again, the visa situation is a policy in relation to Septh 11th. It is not a policy directly related to the economic situation of the country, which has been going down hil since 2000.

Pakistans economy is not related to the topic, open a thread if you want to discuss it. Student visas? Not related to the economy directly. Rather indirectly they bring in foriegn capital and increase consumer spending. But they dont have the drastic effect of shutting down the economy. So you may continue to insult etc. Yet you shown little proof that the US economy went down hill just because of the attacks.
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CM, once again I would ask you to read more carefully, as merely posting a reply to something I never said is a waste of time...

The H1 visas had no affect on the economy, as the number is too small to even cause a change in a graph.

In case you didnt know, I never said that the low quota of work visas were the cause of the downtrend in the economy. I was saying that the poor economy is resulting in the downtrend in the issuence of H1s... Now tell me, would they issue work visas if there economy is not in a position to accomodate more workers? NO, even a kid can answer this. Secondly, goto the C&A forum and have a look at the people who have had lay offs after Sept11th... I too know lots of people who got lay offs after 9/11. Secondly you asked for proof, I gave it to you. Again, I mentioned Pakistans economy since your love for Al-Qaeda made you think that a war does not affect a country's economy, which is total crap... A war destroys the country's economy in case you didnt know, and Pakistan is one such example.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 5Abi: *
IT is the most hardest hit of the sectors of the US economy with the unemployment among the IT people running as high as 5.3 percent. The second hardest hit is the telecom with unemployment in the US among electrical engineers as high as 4.8 percent.
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Exactly, and it wasnt too bad before Sept11th, infact during 99-00 was an incredible year for IT graduates to go and get jobs in the US... I feel pity for the people who opted for a degree related to the IT, such as CS and EE just before sept11th, because they would never have imagined the terrorists would ultimately blow away their future...

5abi

the IT and telecoms industry was in trouble long b4 sept 11 you remember DOT.COM what happened to that was that the fault of aprill 11 or may 11 or june 11 :bukbuk:

And Scandals such as the $3.8billion gaping hole in WorldCom’s accounts which incidentally has now led to the biggest corporate bankruptcy in history don;t exactly boost your economy do they. Other examples include Rank Xerox overstating its profits by $1.4billion over 5 years, Merck the giant pharmaceutical company overstating its revenues and its costs-by some $14billion over 3 years, not to mention the collapse of the Energy giant Enron.

what about the 1997 collapse of the Tiger economies of the Far East in 1997, misery was inflicted upon the lives of millions in Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. The boom boom bust capitalist system makes it inevitable of recession in countries.

Thank you AK. My views exactly. Now spock lets deal with the IT sector which was going down hill since 2000. In 2001 the bubble burst, thousands of companies when bankrupt and the market crashed due to the overinflated tech stocks. That is where the unemployment comes along for both IT and Engineers.

Spock lets see. You first said that Al-Qaeda caused the economy to falter. Then you start discussing H1 visas, when they have no affect on the US economy. The international intake of labour is so small compared to the whole US labor force, that it doesnt matter. Like i have said before, the H1 visa is a policy restriction. Not directly linked to the economy.

Your original statement was that the whole economy went down hill due to the attacks of Sept 11th. Now you have changed your tune. Pakistans economy is not an issue here and thus will not comment on it.

And just a small correction: War makes the economy pick up. Hitlers Germany, World war 2 US. World War 2 Japan etc.

effects on economy of Seo 11......terrible,terrible,terrible.......

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *

And just a small correction: War makes the economy pick up. Hitlers Germany, World war 2 US. World War 2 Japan etc.
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correction: depends on what side you are in the war

CM, like I said before, the refusal of H1s didnt cause the economy to go down, it was those attacks... As for Pakistan's economy, how can you say its doing good with all that war hype with India? If you live in Pakistan, you will realize that no one is happy with his business anymore... The last two confrontations have cost us dearly... Everyone knows that its the blessed 9/11 attacks that caused this chain of recession in the first place...

The attacks did not cause the economy to go. Read my posts to UTD. An american agrees, that the attacks had no affect, as the situation was the same. The Pakistan Economy is not an issue here. So thick headed nothing gets in his brain.

Spock, if you are already in US on student visa and benefiting, consider yourself quite lucky. Glad you made it :k: The following student had his stars aligned the wrong way and fell victim to the new revised visa policy red tape.

Student visa for USA

A Student

I applied for admission in a reputed college of USA for a bachelor degree and I was accepted and the college sent me an I-20 form by which I was able to apply for a student visa at the embassy through FedEx. So I did the same and applied through FedEx for a ‘Student Visa’ in May 2002 and received my passport back after 35 days with a stamp “interview required” on my application form. I was given a date in the second week of July for the interview. I appeared at the US Embassy at Islamabad on the appointed day. Being interviewed for only a couple of minutes the officer approved my visa and issued me a letter stating that “the Consular Officer has tentatively approved the visa but due to new state department regulations, there is a 30 days waiting period before the visa can be printed” and gave me a date to come to the embassy and collect the passport in August. After the waiting period was over, I went all the way from Karachi to the embassy in Islamabad to collect my passport. There were several other students also standing with me in the queue and waiting for their turn. They called all of us one by one and said that the passport is still not ready and the waiting period has been extended to an indefinite period and the passport will be sent back to us by the courier service.

Not only me but also all the other students were shocked as most of the students applied for admission for the fall 2002 semester, which starts in August/September. I came back to Karachi and sent an e-mail to the college as well as the embassy and explained them the situation. The embassy never replied. Few days later I received a phone call from FedEx that we have received your passport and you can come and collect it. When I went to their office, they gave me my passport

back with another letter from the embassy! This was the letter I was supposed to get before going to Islamabad, which states that “we are returning your passport without visa this time and the waiting period has been extended to an indefinite period.” The letter also stated that “please do not contact us because this time we will contact you. This is a firm rule and there can be no exceptions.”

Now what! I have wasted a whole semester and who knows if I will be able to join the next semester or not. I would like to request the US embassy to finalise their policy and start issuing student visas as soon as possible or simply inform the students if they do not plan to issue visas in future also, so that the students can pursue universities in Pakistan for admission and save precious time.

Karachi

Before 9/11 did every pakistani student who applied for a visa get it?

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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Before 9/11 did every pakistani student who applied for a visa get it?
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Fraudia, yes... CM here likes to believe these policies have nothing to do with 9/11... How wrong he is...

Anywayz, coming back to 5abi, well I got a student visa only because I already had a visitor visa, which I got before 9/11, otherwise I would have probably been rejected like all the other students who were in line with me, who sadly had to pay for the actions of a bunch of fundos who caused this 9/11 incident in the first place. I have also heard that virtually no student visas have been issued to Arab students this year, and though CM will not believe it, it is because of 9/11.

Lets see who we should blame for this policy of not accepting students... On one side we have those who carried out these attacks and freaked out the Americans, who are not scared whenever they see a desi or an Arabic guy... On the other hand its the American Government, which thinks that just because these hijackers were students in the US, they should enforce much more strict policies.

P.S. Fraudia, before 9/11 if you could pass the TOEFL, it was easy to get a an F1 visa... All you need is a healthy bank statement to back your financial strength.

CM making personal attacks? How do you explain virtually everyone saying these attacks caused the major slide in the economy? You have to let go of your love for Al-Qaeda to analyze the present situation...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *

Fraudia, yes... CM here likes to believe these policies have nothing to do with 9/11... How wrong he is...

...
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Before 911, US economy was already going down. US economy in fact got little better after 911 but since that improvement was emotionally backed it couldn't keep up. Rest of the world's economy was also already down (alongwith world's biggest economy).

All these policies you are outlining were definitely changed because of 911, but to say that economy took a hit from 911 is not correct. A whole lot changed in the world politically, but not economically.

To your surprise, may be, Pakistan's stock market-which to some extent reflects economic condition of Pakistan- is performing better than before 911 and perhaps has seen "gains" while rest of world's stock kept going down.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
To your surprise, may be, Pakistan's stock market-which to some extent reflects economic condition of Pakistan- is performing better than before 911 and perhaps has seen "gains" while rest of world's stock kept going down.
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Yeah, just like Uncle Mush claims our reserves are crossing all time highs... The fact of the matter is, that the economy is in the worst shape in Pakistan... Mahengai is going up and up, and the funny thing is that this time musharraf cant blame it on the prv. government like our old wazeer-e-azams used to do so conveniently.

The September 11th Effect on the Global and Domestic Energy Industry
Karim Khan

The tragic events of September 11, 2001 have the potential to change the world’s geopolitical framework, the ways that people live and conduct business, and the assumptions on which we operate, according to more than a half-dozen client reports issued by Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA). As the economy reacts and the U.S. wrestles with how to respond to the attacks and protect its citizens, the possibility exists for a significant shift from globalization and economic integration toward an emphasis on domestic security and, in practical terms, a slowing or even reversal of trade liberalization. The reports by CERA suggest a number of effects on the world and North American energy markets:

Crude Oil. Downward revisions in the outlook for oil demand, based on the effect of September 11 on economic performance and jet fuel demand, point to the potential for oversupply in 2002, unless OPEC acts to curtail production. CERA is projecting a small global stock build in the fourth quarter of 2001, and, assuming further cuts in OPEC supply early in 2002, a significant stock build in the first half of 2002. For the fourth quarter of 2001, CERA is projecting an average of around $24 per barrel.

http://www.facilitycity.com/fc_fm_01_12_utilities.asp
Refined Products. In response to a downward revision of expected economic growth for the global economy, CERA is projecting total world oil demand will grow just 0.3 millions of barrels per day (mbd) in 2001 compared with last year’s total. For the fourth quarter, CERA also expects total world jet fuel demand to decline 0.5 mbd below the fourth quarter 2000 level. For 2002, CERA expects continued weak economic growth to lead to an increase in total world oil demand of only 0.3 mbd. The weak demand picture points to depressed refining margins for the downstream industry, although one mitigating factor is that global refined product inventories are low.
North American Natural Gas. Price weakness, growth in domestic and imported gas supply, and a strong storage position combined with the potential weakness in the U.S. economy are likely to dampen U.S. natural gas demand even further.
North American Electric Power. The outlook for the North American power business reveals slackening demand, lower prices, and increased operating costs into 2002.
Energy Security Concerns

Energy exploration and production (E&P) companies are likely to undergo changes related to security and economic stability. Some of the changes may include continued investment in existing long-term projects. CERA expects that ongoing investment programs in deepwater, heavy oil, and in other areas perceived as politically stable will continue apace. However, a slowing global economy, exacerbated by widening economic repercussions from the September 11 attacks, will make production growth targets difficult to reach, especially for companies pressed to meet the increases announced previously under more favorable circumstances.

In North America, electric power companies face new security challenges, such as the security and reliability of energy sources. A shift is likely from thinking of energy security in terms of U.S. reliance on foreign sources of oil to also include a focus on U.S. domestic infrastructure. This will alter, and potentially even forestall the debate over electric industry deregulation and restructuring.

Infrastructure security will be questioned as well; we can expect heightened security around key generation, transmission and distribution facilities. These extra security measures will translate into higher electricity costs. System planners will now want to ensure the security of electric transmission systems—both physical assets and information systems used by grid operators—by putting double and even triple contingencies in place.

The Lightwave Post 9-11
An Analysis of the impact of the telecommunications dowtrun, and the effects of Sept. 11th.

Introduction

The attacks on the USA of September 11, 2001 are certainly one of, if not the most, traumatic events to ever occur in the history of the United States. There is no doubt that these attacks caused a significant paralysis of the US (and World) economy. For several days, people didn’t go anyplace; they just watched the news. Buying stopped at the malls; pleasure travel just dried up; business travel nearly halted; borrowing stopped; people stopped sending jokes and other frivolous material on the Internet; the stock markets dived; airlines, restaurants, hotels, theme parks, rental car agencies, etc. lost a great deal of business. On a slightly longer term basis, things that would not have been expected, like the loss of sales tax revenue to the states that have significant tourism Texas is estimating a loss of $50 to $100 million, are beginning to come to light, adding a strain on many budgets that is likely to cause a multiplier effect of the initial shocks.