Speaking to a lot of young desi people who have migrated from pakistan to Aus for watever reasons… I constantly hear them talking about how this and this is not good here in Aus.. and how they are finding it a huge task to instill religious and cultural values in their children… or will find it to be a huge task..
That they see kids here who dont know anything about Pakistan or do not know the urdu poems they themselves grew up with, they dont know the meaning of being a pakistani (to be honest, i dont even know what that means.. so im in that category to some extent)
What I want to know is, and this may differ from person to person, or from parent to parent… what i want to know is, is cultural values and religous values far more important to you than wanting safety for your child, wanting them to have the rights to grow up with a decent education, making sure that medical is available when they need it… (and let me just tell you, Aus has one of the best medicare systems in the world).. are these things less important to you than culture and religion? I mean, Aus is a country where u have virtually free medical. You dont need private health insurance unless you’ve got some major dental issues or you’re always in accidents or something. Melbourne, and some of you may disagree, comes up as the top 3 livable cities in the world. So when I hear about how unsafe melbourne is and yada yada yada, i often wonder… “compared to what… ur room??!”
I do love pakistan, even though i am infuriated by the state its in, I do love the country and i know i wont be able to give that feeling to my child. Religion is important to me… for me, thats the basis of the morals I will be giving to my children..
Having said that… the safety of my child and her needs are far greater than wanting to instill culture in her… to have a healthy child is what’s important. A happy child.
I did ask one of these ladies the question… and she looked at me terribly condused and shocked… but u know what, her answer was… the health of her children IS more important. Having said that, it was a one on one conversation. Not sure if the same answer would have been given if it was a group thing..
i live in denmark where nudity is a form of beign natural. its very much welcomed. its messed up in terms of education, healthcare, and muslims are really getting it left right and centre.
am i happy adn content raising my son here. nopes. yes he will get better healthcare adn education compared to say.. pakistan (not that i would ever move there if i the choice), but instilling religious values in a society THIS bad adn anti muslim. its really gonna take a whole lotta effort on our part as parents.
being a pakistani... i dont know what that means.. i dont knwo the national anthem nor the geography of the country nor the historical facts or stories except for the parition story.. i never felt the need to learn nor felt left out.. i was raised in arabia adn i feel i am more at home there than pakistan. we know urdu, eat desi food, know the singers and national stars for various sectors of life.. we are comfortable visiting pakistan without having anyone laff at our urdu.... that was enough for me and it will be enoughf or my son. sure he can be more patriotic as he grows up .. who knows?
more than culture, religion is very important to me .. especially after i became a mom. its the one thing that my son will take to his grave and the only thign that will coem to his rescue in the afterlife. not what degree he has from what uni nor how good his healthcare provider was.
i dont know.. its a real tough choice for parents... i just want it all ... but i knwo thats impossible ;(
I believe we need a balance in everything. I can't panic all the time about the safety or health of my kids neither I can completely ignore the need of instilling good moral values from my religion and culture in my kids. It's the balance and moderation(not the secular definition of moderation) that makes a human being healthy and positive.
Also, I'd like my children to spend their lives in different parts of the world to gain the better understaning of cultures and people, because I've seen that cultured people are more tolerant and also Quran tells us to travel and see the world.
I'm linving in Canada. While I think it's important to have safety, education and health, having deen is also important, perhaps more important if we look at the really big picture. Of course you can't expect someone who grows up here to have the same cultural values they would if they grew up somewhere else. That being said, safety, education and health don't have to be mutually exclusive with having deen in one's life. In fact, I see people here who follow deen more than people who grew up in Pakistan.
I'm linving in Canada. While I think it's important to have safety, education and health, having deen is also important, perhaps more important if we look at the really big picture. Of course you can't expect someone who grows up here to have the same cultural values they would if they grew up somewhere else. That being said, safety, education and health don't have to be mutually exclusive with having deen in one's life. In fact, I see people here who follow deen more than people who grew up in Pakistan.
Agreed 100%.. I've seen in Pakistan, masjids are not even block apart, forget about daily prayers, they don't go for JUMMAH even! Alhamdulillah, Allah raises pious people in every corner of this world. No need for special language or cultures to groom a kid **for **instilling deen.
a shaykh once said:
"The way I see it, if your state with Allah is good, and you raise your children well, then they'll come out well--wherever you live. But if your state with Allah isn't good, or you don't raise your children well, then they'll struggle--wherever you live."
*the state= in all our affairs from the most basic to the most complex matters of life.
"The way I see it, if your state with Allah is good, and you raise your children well, then they'll come out well--wherever you live. But if your state with Allah isn't good, or you don't raise your children well, then they'll struggle--wherever you live."
Cricket, we have disagreed on some things here on GS, but for the post above you have my heartfelt agreement. Very wise words.
If you live in a culturally and religously very different place then for sure it will take more effort but there is no effort more worthwhile than to raise a well adjusted child to become a well adjusted, good person with good strong morals.
IMHO our problem is that we consider teaching about Islam and instilling religious values into our kids the primary responsibility of the school system, which is how it happens in Pakistan. They learn about Islam in school, and the parents hire a moulvi sahib to come teach the child how to recite Quran like a parrot… buss, responsiblity khatam!! And then we end up with all those weird beliefs that are taught by our Islamiat teachers, don’t even ask what weird things they used to tell us
I believe its the parents’ responsibility to teach your child about our religion, yeh nahin hona chahiyay kay hum ek Islamic country mein paida huay thats why we are muslims. So I don’t see an issues with raising my child outside Pakistan.
Sure it will be more work for me, but at least my child will learn everything from me and I can better answer his/her questions based on my knowledge and then do research on topics I’m not too clear about, and in the long run it will help me too… strengthening my beliefs and broadening my religious knowledge, I for one look forward to raising kids with balanced values and beliefs and utmost unshakable belief in Allah.
Baaqi culture, I don’t care about that… our culture is mostly adopted from the hindu practices anyway, languages I will teach her myself also, so not a problem. The only reason I would go back to Pakistan would be for my parents or my in-laws, otherwise… no, thank you.
i do agree that religion plays a huge part in raising our kids and instilling good values in them... but what i wonder if my child was, God forbid, unwell... would it matter more to me that she get proper medical health or is it more important for me that she is a good muslim.. i dunno.
People in Pakistan love their children as much as people living abroad. It's not a country to be looked down upon. My child got the best medical treatment when she needed it. Pakistani students have been world toppers in O & A level exams. Just to think that my child is getting better than all the children living in Pakistan is just sick. Teaching your child morals , religion , manners depends upon your upbringing Two children going to same school can be completely different just because the way they have been brought up. Children raised abroad can be better human beings and muslims as compared to children raised in an islamic country and vice versa. Role that parents plays in children's life matters the most ..........the upbringing can make an adami to an insaan. If foreign countries were so nice and the schools were so nice then why there are still crimes over there , why do they have jails ..........they should not be needing police & law to regulate and control people.
American forces have set examples of worst crimes against humanity in the jails of Iraq. Why ? these forces were taught in best schools ...werent they ?
I live in Aus which is a bit different in terms of crime and education as compared to America and even the UK.
We're still maybe a little behind in terms of that. So when someone living here in Aus, tells me about the crime rate of Aus.. I get a bit baffled because it is hardly anything in comparison to what happens in Pakistan.
In terms of the education system in pakistan... the thing is, only the fortunate get to go to these schools. It's only the rich who can get good schooling. Whereas, if you're here, everyone is entitled to free education and it is compulsory till the age of 16. Every child is entitled to it, unlike what it is in Pakistan where the ghareeb dont have a chance in hell going to a good school.. let alone a school at all. And for these people, what do you think would matter more... religion or getting food in the tummy at the end of the day? i dont know myself..
In terms of crime, at least you know at the end of the day the police is on ur side and u can trust them. In Pakistna, unless you have "connections", what sort of justice can you get if a crime has been committed against you?
i do agree that religion plays a huge part in raising our kids and instilling good values in them... but what i wonder if my child was, God forbid, unwell... would it matter more to me that she get proper medical health or is it more important for me that she is a good muslim.. i dunno.
I think when that predicament is there (and Allah karay that never happens), the choice is pretty easy....
In fact, I don't think any parent would willingly put their beliefs above that of thier child's health and well being..but I do know of some religious sects (not in Islam) where, for example, blood transfusions are not allowed...so if that were an option to save thier child's life, there would be a conflict there.
^ I dunno Sara, u might be surprised about how many people put their beliefs before their children.
Why are there so many people in pakistan who do not get their children immunised even though some immunisation is free.. ? Yes, there are people like that here in the so called west, but the numbers are not the same..
I'm seriously not trying to bag Pakistan... not at all. Im trying to understand the notion behind such beliefs. I guess
I remember an article where mullahs were telling the (uneducated) public that immunizations were a tool of the West to sterilize their children.....and no this wans't in Pakistan either.
^ actually in my very very extended family there are a few mullahs who haven't got their children vaccinated and they believe on what you have said above. It's jahalat that they do and for the sake of their believes they risk their children's health.
