Education and the role of Bazurgh (Elders)

Lifestyle Relationships
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It’s fair to say that people from the subcontinent place a much higher value on obtaining secondary, and tertiary education, than those of Anglo saxon or Western origins, who are just as likely to pick up a trade skill than they are to go obtain a university degree. Of course I’m not suggesting that this statement applies to each and every single individual, but definitely sheer numbers and percentages would agree.

The higher institutionalised qualification you achieve, it is perceived, the comfier life you will lead. Quality of living, income, health, marriage prospects, happiness, etc; brown people can be guilty of assuming if haven’t got a solid education you will struggle with all these aspects, unless of course you are born into riches.

Nothing wrong with this. Education is definitely one of the best paths to enlightenment. Education not only teaches about tangible phenomenon in our world, but trains our ability to apply logic and reasoning in our life, to make decisions that we feel will be in our best interest. This is not a secondary skill you pick up as you study. Higher marks are often rewarded to students who can demonstrate their ability to obtain solutions through a rigorous process of evaluation, using one’s logic and reasoning. Higher incomes are rewarded to professionals who do the same. We apply these skills on a day to day basis, where we make decisions governed by logic and reasoning, to better all aspects of our lives, from education, to professional, all the way through to personal relationships.

So why is it that so often, logic and reasoning is often given up to indulge our Bazurgh (Elders)?

Why do brown people, more than others, give in to what is “expected” of us?

Why do we agree to arrange marriages, with often times crazy conditions, only to appease our elders?

Why do our elders feel it so important they need to maintain control over sometimes the large decisions of our lives?

Please don’t grab the wrong end of this stick and cry out that HEY! OTHER KINDS OF PEOPLE DO THIS TOO!!
I know they do. But you can’t deny this is far more prevalent in brown culture than any other culture. The repercussions and punishments are far more severe for insubordination, including disagreeing with an elder Patriarch/Matriarch of the family. Your social standing within the community also drops further.

TL;DR : Why do brown people have a more difficult time standing up to their elders, than our Anglo/Western counter parts?

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Re: Education and the role of Bazurgh (Elders)

Upbringing

The “value” instilled when being bought up

Tarbiyat

It’s a cicle

Add in the cultural bandage which is more dominant in Pakistani outside Pakistan

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Re: Education and the role of Bazurgh (Elders)

What’s a cultural bandage?

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Re: Education and the role of Bazurgh (Elders)

I started a blog about individualism and collectivism all the answers are in that blog, Desis come from a collective culture where individualistic thoughts are discouraged. Older people have grabbed all the power in that society. Although to learn from experience is not a bad thing but younger people should be given the right to accept or reject such ideas.

http://gupshup.org/gs/members/bobby1/125957-inspire.html

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Re: Education and the role of Bazurgh (Elders)

Formal education wouldn’t necessarily equal independence (from social/cultural pressures, expectations etc) by itself, so I’m not surprised in seeing even a high school dropout here (West) more independent, which is more part of the culture/norm here.

What instances do you see logic/common sense being given up to indulge elders? Apart from the arranged marriage example, there is also the pursuing of fields of study/professions that they might suggest/instruct/dictate. Anything apart from that?

In terms of what is “expected” of us - well, from my observation, this is pretty much done by everybody. Of course it may vary by whose expectations they’re pressured to meet and this will be largely due to cultural factors.

There isn’t anything wrong with arranged marriages inherently, and would seem like a logical expectation for someone who has grown up with limited contact with the opposite gender.

As for elders trying to maintain control over major life decisions, a guess is they feel they’re entitled as they’ve invested in them.

Though what you describe seems to be a thing of the past. A trend I’ve observed is that in my time, we went with the guidance of our elders and people from my generation actually graduated on time. What I’m seeing with youth of today is that they’re indecisive and try out many things and still haven’t done a Bachelor’s degree as they approach the age of 30. So at least in the West, that control/conformity seems to be dwindling and has lessened considerably from when I was younger.

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Good thread! Looking forward to more responses on this.

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i can see bobby all over the thread in next few (many) posts…lol

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Why good threads dont get responses?

fikr

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It can be argued for girls that they listen to their elders just because of culture but nowadays young men only listen to their elders if they are financially dependent upon them, otherwise most couldn?t care less. Surely we will find guys who would be earning and still would not stand up to their elders, that is usually due to some other sort of financial dependence. Perhaps some debt that they might need help with or some sort of other benefit they seek such as inheritance. Very few do that out of respect alone.

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We give reverence to our elders in the family but I, for example, was free to do whatever I wanted.

But coming to think of it, my nana never forced my mom on her education and what she majored in so perhaps it is a ashrafia thing. My dad even fought Karachi University to give admission to my sister in an area where they only allowed guys.

On the flip side, I have seen illiterate people here and the reputation of UK Pakistanis (or “Pakis”) is well-known for illiteracy and ghetto manners.

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Bobby and education !??

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