Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Hello friends :slight_smile:

As most of you are aware of my dogma. Recently my mind is budging with these new doctrines. They offer very close understanging of very difficult battles fought by muslims after Hijrat from Mecca to Madina.

Here is the summary of my perception of these hard fought battles :-

**Ghazwa e Badar : **

As most of us know that this was the first battle Muslims fought against non-muslim enemy who expelled them from their house. They wanted to terminate muslims and end their propagation, once and for all.
At the end, those non-muslims were defeated despite having 3 times larger army than muslims and large number of weapons and strength.

Now I somehow want to expertise my understanding of this difficult phenomena. My mind suggest that I can understand this event once i refresh my memory of 1992 cricket world cup that Pakistan won, despite having weaker team in strength and losing against most rival.

Just like Ghazwa e badar, Pakistan cricket team was a muslim team trying to save its skin. Except captain and couple of brave sportsmen, others were mostly unknown players.

  • Pakistan team was weaker and lost most of early matches

  • Early muslims before hijrat also faced tyranny and barbaric behaviour, before they escaped and entered into a peaceful city.

  • It was an astonishing and kind of miracle for Pakistan nation that their team was able to reach Final, and their captain was safe and sound and healthy and prepared to lead from the front

  • The population of Medina exhibited similar expressions of joy.

Ghazwa e Badar and Cricket worldcup Final 1992 (Pakistan V England)

It was Holy month of Ramazan, relatives friends and well wisher living in medina were praying for saftey of muslim solders ; Likwise the 130 million muslim population of pakistan was praying for their team’s ultimate victory.

We see both prayer were heard by almighty and he sent his angels to both venues. The result was victory for muslim at both places and winners bowed thier heads , thanking almighty Lord for his blessing.

Next Ghazwa e Uhad

To be Continued …

2

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

Ghazwa e Uhad :

This was the second battle between Muslim living in madina and non-muslims from Mecca.
Both sides were prepared for this battle. Muslim sentiment were high and non-muslims were prepaired for revenge. The result was quite grave and muslims faced serious problems after that.

Ghazwa e Uhad and 1971 War between Pakistan & India.

The structure of Ghazwa -e - Uhad reminds me of war between Pakistan and India, and very tragic break up of country just before the end. The death of one of the brave companion and Uncle of Prophet(pbuh) Hazrat Hamza (ra) during that battle was very trajic event and experience for muslims and their leader.

Muslim lost this battle because of late and hard targeted maneouvre by sideline and covert commander of horsemen. Famously known Khalid Bin Waleed. It is a well known fact that muslim lost this battle due to his pressence in non-musim army and muslim solders not obeying all orders from commander of the army.

Thinking closely about these two events, I can recall a person who somehow provides resemblance. He was our great hero Brig. T M Shaheed. It is well known fact that he was the last person who was air-lifted by army from Dhaka , after the fall of dhaka. Simmilarly , Hazrat Khalid Bin waleed was evacuated from Non-muslim group just before Fatah Makka by Allah Almighty, when he joined muslim and embraced Islam.

Although both personalities were different in life style but simmilar at some points. Both were exceptional commanders and genius war-game experts. The history saved lots of adventures by Khalid Bin Waleed. And Brig. T M (Shaheed ) has marvellous achievement for Pakistan and Muslim. Some of them are known but rest are kept top secret for unknown reasons.

Next Ghazwa e Khandak and more

To be continued

Timepass- December 2012
3

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

LOL

Sing a Song according 2 Ur Mood !!!!!
4

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

After first and second battles mentioned above, the time period starts with battles most complicated and difficult to understand nature.

^ The phenomena is quite true for me not sure about other folks, because my mind is small.

Anyways, lets move to next chapter…

Ghazwa e Khandak (The battle of Trench )

Not writing the detail, just summary here. That battle attracted large number wariors for slaying opponents. Muslims started digging trench, a very novel idea for their defense. It was a persian tactic, conveyed to commander by Salman farsi.

The non-muslim army was larger than past and they attracted few jewish and other non-muslim tribes from the area to take part in their movement to dispel muslim from medina estate where they were growing in number and strength.

Muslims were totally prepaired for defending themselves, their city and weapons, in this battle. They were successful in the end due to brilliant diplomacy and tactics of their leader, bravery of defening army and God’s timely weather change. All these perpetual events forced the invader to leave the battle field go back home.

Now ^ the mention battle was quite difficult to end in this strange way. I understand the events by comparison to Highly classified tactics and intelligence reporting saved a war starting in year 2002.

I am going to write these details. I am not sure if it is safe to share these secret report with public or not :konfused:

Anyway, In the year 2002, I witnessed and most of the people living in pakistan observed this escalation of Armed forces along the border of Pakistan and India. Both nations felt this rising tention is dangerous and a war may start sooner or later. I saw many armed vehicle traveling with solders , weapons and other stuff, on the road during day and night. It was quite terrifying period.

All this tension started rising after an attack on indian parliment by some young terrorist travelling in a car. ( that what they showed on tv) and killing people in very safegaurd area. Eventually and expectedly they blamed pakistan for all this activity ( just like mumbai attack few months ago).

The escalation and tensions were rising so much that it was going too much close to begining of a horrifying war. Just in those days, Pakistan intelligence got that important news from India.

The following is classified stuff ..

Indian High commisioner was called at Pakistan Foreign office for an urgent and important meeting. When he arrived , they took him to projector room and started showing a video. An Airport appeared in that ammeture video, that was IAF Sri Nagar Airport situated in Indian Held Kashmir. Indian amry soldier appeared and then all of a sudden they showed runway where 2 Fighter planes F-16 were landing. The video ended after that.

The high commissioner appeared with blank and feared face. Intelligence chief of army appeared from side and asked him to explain what he saw. Indian high commissioner remained silent for few second and he was asked same question again.

India Airforce never had an F-16, what these F-16 doing in IAF airport ?

That high commissioner was briefed that Pakistan army knows that these fight planes came from Isreal and they are in india to attack Pakistan’s nuclear facilities, at the begining of war in next few hours.

Pakistan is monitoring all the activities along the border and prepared for any offencive strike from india.

Next they showed another video to high commissioner. He saw pakistani Missiles ‘Ghouri’ capable of carrying nuclear warhead to any city of india. He was told that Any second these F-16 take off from indian airport and fly toward pakistan, Then army would launch those missiles once these planes cross the border. High commissioner was told to brief indian foriegn office and tell them that pakistan want these fighter planes out of india now.

After that incident some diplomacy and back channel diplomacy started and escalation stopped there. Movement of armed forces reduced.

Ooops… Quite long story, but In my view that battle history Ghazwa e Khanda was somewhat simmilar to these events, in theory.

***Continued … ***
most exciting battle next

5

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

battle of hunain is like pak losing to australia in world cup final

6

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

Fateh-e-Makkah = 28th May,1998 :dhimpak:

Happy Birthday Quaid-e-Azam
7

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

^lol...yeah right. Fattah Makkah is like carrying out nuclear tests, how so?

8

Before we romanticize of caricature the medieval wars we must remember few important aspects:

  1. Prophet didn't start any of the first three wars
  2. Even though Muslims were gaining strength and numbers, Kuffar were multiplying even faster.

  3. Muslims were slowly being overwhelmed with every new war. Badr was open field war, Uhad was a defensive war with a mountain in the back, and badr was totally defensive with zero open field tactics.

  4. After the third war, Mohammad pbuh realized that the path of war will never work for him and the possibly the fourth war with Makkans will annihilate Muslim city state. That's why he signed a smart, peaceful Hudaibia treaty. This treaty was so uncharacteristic for the Arab tribal mindset, that many Muslims including Umar rah got emotionally against the treaty.

Hudaibia treaty was pretty much along the line of Jesus's teaching about turning your other cheek towards your enemy aka "total non-violence".

Thus protection of a fragile state was much more important for the prophet, as compared to the tribal pride. No wonder the early Muslims state thrived after Hudaibia.

These days Muslims militants do not reflect our prophet's wise approach towards worldly matters, and that's why many Muslim countries are in turmoil all thanks to Islamists terrorism.

9

Any reference for this statement of yours?

10

Hareem sis.

Read the details on Hudaibia. No one signs a humiliating (according to Umar rah) treaty unless they are threatened with dire consequences.

I realize why you asked that question. You feel that Muslims were super strong back then and there is no way Hudaibia could have been signed from a weak position.

The reality was quite different.

FYI. Every step of early Islam was on defensive footing. Hijrat to Madina in the middle of night was under total fear and extreme care. Hijrat to Habshah (Ethiopia) was under total fear. There were many such moments in early Islam when things were precariously close to utter destruction.

Let me give you an example from modern day to show how bad the uncouth tribals could be.

You see Taliban bombing girls schools in Swat?

Multiply this tribal ferocity by 100 times to picture the Quraish of Makkah.

Just think about the Hinda mutilating the bodies of shuhada after Uhad. She tore the heart out of dead body (bodies) and chewed organ(s) before spitting out in the rage and ultimate hatred.

Just think about broken teeth of prophet immediately after Uhad and you will realize the amount of hatred and zeal carried by the tribal animosity of Makkans. Can you even imagine what would have happened if that stone or projectile had hit a few inches above? Surely we believe in "Jisay allah rukhay usay koan chukhay", but view this from the eyes of Muslims who were in that day filled with blood and dead bodies. They were definitely scared especially when the undisciplined Muslim fighters posted on Uhad forgot about their duty and left their position.

Or just go visit the Badr cemetery to see the 72 precious bodies lying there to realize how close was the utter destruction of Muslims.

The problem with Muslim these days is that we glorify our wars without looking at the realities that existed back then. We think it was easy to spread Islam by shear power. It wasn't so. There were a lot of "oops" moments, when things could have gone either way.

Muslim back then were even as vulnerable to the competing powers as they are today. They were all ordinary mortal human beings just like today. They were too dependent on divine help just like today.

The difference is that in early period Muslims used finesse and non-violence first and power was used only as a last resort.

These days Muslims think, we carry sword and jump on our opponent and Allah will give us automatic victory. Certainly not.

Muslims like any other group must use their head and very carefully decide their options and the first and foremost option is to avoid war and bloodshed at any cost.

11

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

[quote]

After the third war, Mohammad pbuh realized that the path of war will never work for him and the possibly the fourth war with Makkans will annihilate Muslim city state. That's why he signed a smart, peaceful Hudaibia treaty. This treaty was so uncharacteristic for the Arab tribal mindset, that many Muslims including Umar rah got emotionally against the treaty.

[/quote]

prophet was on a msiison to expunge idoltry from arabian peninsula and he pursed it with offensive means as well
ghazwa autas, khaybar, taif ,campaign in yemen were offensive from a military standpoint

secondly arabs in pre-islamic times were well aware of settlements and agreements
eg between aus and khazraj and the oath of chivalry between the tribes

[quote]

Multiply this tribal ferocity by 100 times to picture the Quraish of Makkah.

[/quote]

i disagree totally
quraish of mecca were like modern western educated elitest aristocrats who took pride in their being city dwellers in contrast with the savage bedouins
e.g see attitude of later ummayyads to their iraqi opponents who were largely villagers

burqaposhx you are trying to present the Prophet as a machiavellian politician nauzobillah]

Timepass- December 2012
12

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

code bhai i have a problem with this thread now ...in first post we are comparing imaran khan to prophet ??? who is ijaz , miandad , and ramiz raja !!
plz close this this blasphemous thread

shyarana lateefe
13

Prophet gave us examples via his actions. Those examples cover different roles such as trader, wealthy businessman, army commander, and yes as an honest politician.

Every politician is not like zardari as you very well know. There are good politicians too. And prophet was a good politician.

Is that a joke???????????????

FYI pre-Islamic Quraishees were part of the Arab dimwit tribals who buried their daughters, and committed atrocities in the haram sharif. They could have been a tad bit better than beduins but they still were tribals. They were like our dimwit Taliban tribals who are blowing up girls schools.

You think aristocrats rip the heart from dead bodies, chew them and spit them? Heck no! But Quraishees did all that.

So let's not glorify pre-Islamic Arabs just because they belonged to Quraish. And nor should we do that now.

There was a reason why Prophet pbuh was sent to them, to fix Quraishees tribals.

14

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

[QUOTE]
So let's not glorify pre-Islamic Arabs just because they belonged to Quraish. And nor should we do that now.
[/QUOTE]

what i consider a insult to quraish u consider glorification
so we really have VERY different views

TTP set conditions for talks
15

You crack me up here.

As someone said treaty was not an uncommon affair those days. It was a good political strategy which eventually proven beneficial. Regarding Ali (RAA) and his opinion, he was the youngest and was confident that treaty was not needed and no one knows if the result would have been any different. But the decision was made and had to be honored.

All other comments of yours are also hilarious. You seem to have portrayed an unusual picture here. At the beginning the people who became muslims were fearful of persecution but they never backed off when the time for confrontation came. Even during Badr when they were fasting and war was thrust upon them.

For example, more than the three times force in Ahud did not make them flinch. During Badr they were 313 as opposed to about 1000 Meccans and lost very few people. They captured about 100 Meccans as prisoners.

Unanimously the decision was to go and defend against aggression from Mecca but not in the city. Starting from 1000 they were left with 700 since one pretended muslim group of 300 people left before the fight started. The commander of Meccan army was Khalid Bin Waleed if I remember correctly. Had it not been a confusion of one group of people it would not have negative result. It does not show that they were fearful, Meccans were strong or muslims were getting to be annilated.

Despite you portrayed Meccans as vicious, muslims were fearless after few early days.

History showed that not a single person died and Mecca was conquered since Meccans were fearful and did not raise their arms.

Only thing you mentioned which was true that these fights were not started by muslims.

weirdest marriages
16

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

Sorry for the delay in compilation. It was due to busy ness in last few days. As you know the stuff is not copy-paste material, so delay in writing is natural.

I will Respond to posts of members after completion of this post, inshallah.
(spell check is off. there are spelling mistake in my posts. sorry)

Ghazwa - e Khayber

This was the very first war of Muslims against jews. Basically our leader wanted to avoid this confrontation and for this reason, early years they signed various accords with them to keep them in their limits. Some tribe stayed withing threshold others betrayed and supported enemy. This is quite a long story. Anyone can get hold by studying history.

Coming back to Khayber. The city is some 100 miles away from madina. Muslim went there to fight against those jewish trible who tried to stab muslim in back and isolated themselve in a strongly built fort. Muslim army despite having good number of soldier and weapons was unable to enter this fort, even weeks passed and they were feeling exhauted.

Then starts the interesting story. Prophet (pbuh) sent a messenger back to madina and Called his beloved companion to khayber. You all know then name. He was Hazrat Ali (ra)
That next day that event took place which turned the table in favour of muslim army.

Hazrat Ali woke up and reached the spot for combat. Told prophet that his eyes hurt. Prophet kissed his eyes and handed him the flag of muslim army and asked him to lead from the front. Then he marched alone towards the confined fort.

Interestingly, one of the leader of a jewish tribe Marhab, who was hugely well built wrestler. He came out only to fight Hazrat Ali. It was astonishing sight for muslim army in the back as they had not seen anyone opening the door in last few days.

Now what happend ???

Very interestingly the replica of that muslim history is portrayed in an english hollywood movie very well. I am talking about TROY

Watch the begining 20 minutes of the movies. How Achillies reached the battle field on call, and fought his opponent.. is almost the same to Hazrat Ali’ duel with Marhab …

This fight is almost a replication of that particular event at Khayber.

17

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

Eternal return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peace Code_Red

Not that I sanction any of this, but what you are saying in this thread is as per the the concept of eternal return.

Peter Pan (Disney) & Battlestar Galactica Series - “All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again”

Know that I have no support for this theory myself I cite it for academic reasons only

18

Stop comparing/mixing up the truth!

What has Achilles got to do with Ali sher e khuda? How dare you compare a saint and father of all sainthood to a kaffir who probably never exhisted.

Achilles was a mythical hero with an acute weakness in the heel. Ali had no weakness whatsoever and was undefeated throughout his career. Therfore your comparrison is disputable from the outset.

Leaving this matter aside the early wars were fought purely in the name of Islam. The three battles of Destiny in Islam will never be repeated, never.

The Prophet and the Quraish were of the same tribe. Therefore niether side had any political or elitist issues, the fight was over religion, full stop.

The Quraish were far from cowardly and they did not fight the first wave of Ansar duelists becuase they were not as well trained and equipt as the Meccan Kuffar. They would only fight the Muhajir who were as good as themselves. They may have been heretics and deviants but they too were braver than Americans.

Furthermore Ali accompanied Rasoolallah to Khaybar from the outset. Ali was present in every battle except Tabuk.

At Tabuk Rasoolallah left Ali behind, not becuase RasoolAllah feared for Ali and his future, Rasoolallah already knew there would be no fight at Tabuk. When there will be no fight why take Ali?

If you wan't to study the millatry evolution of Islam. Very well i will help you with this, however note well that during the life of Muhammed Sallalaho Alyhi wa Alhlehi wassalam, and khilafate rashidun. It was not becuase of muslim millatry strength that they won it was purely the divine help and blessings of Allah.

Islams Armies did evolve but only after the 8th century. Rasoolallahs soldiers won thier spectacular victories only with Allah and his Nabi's help. There is no other explanation, niether political or millitary to explain the dramatic rise of Islam.

Bear in mind that during this period Islamic armies had no cavalry or camelry as we know it today. They rode to battle but dismounted to engage the enemy. Also apart from the Yemini contingents there were no proffesional Archers and those that carried bows were few in number. Javelins were only a special weapon used by Abysinians, the Arab soldiers fought with spears at close quarters and used swords and axes when the spears broke.

Thus Islamic Armies during the 6th/7th century had nowhere near the firepower of thier opponents like the byzantines and more numerous Sassanids. So without firepower how could a smaller army beat a bigger one?

Sometimes armour or training helped smaller numbers of troops beat larger forces. However few of the early Islamic armies had enough armour. Even less were proffesional soldiers, mostly being carravan guards. Occasionally fighting tribal wars.So without shock troops how did the early Islamic armies beat armoured soldiers and even war Elephants?

Gibbon the 19th century historian states that quite clearly and in no uncertian terms what he believed was the reason for the amazing Muslim victories.
He says
" The Arabs of Arabia Magna had in the time before Muhammad been
a people of little significance to the region, proving in fact how inept
they were during thier wars with the nabatean empire and having even
beome a client state to Negus.
However such an infectous fervour and religous zeal had been ignited
within them by the love of Muhammad that after his victory over at badr
they became the irrisistable force of thier period and would come to
dominate the world of thier time.
Where others had destroyed the Muslaman would build, so that soon
entire nations flocked to the banner of Islam. It was these Moslems who
would preserve the long lost texts of the ancinets and aquire the wisdom
to rule both the empires of the Romans and that of the Persians"

How our armies have evolved eh?

Today we are more numerous than ever with more than 80 nations under our heel. Yet as a Muslim ummat tell me how much Allah is among us, thanks to some we no longer have the eternal blessings.

Perhaps we should not compare our forebears with others for a start. Our founders were as uniqe as thier empire.
Brothers there is time yet for Allah to be on our side.

No matter what others say our muslim founders have no peer.

Jis ke Naabi ka koi Saya nehien
Us kaum ka koi barabar Nahien!

Jis ke Ali jesa mahavir Nahien
us ka goi kise ka kabza nahien!

Ao saab Muslim thauba karo
Is thauba se bad ke taqat nahien!

Jis ke naabi ka koi saya nahien
us kaum ka koi barabar nahien!

Ya nabi nabi ya nabi nabi!

Timepass-Jan 2013
19

if we follow the history it does give u the same pattern…

War between GOOD and EVIL in almost same circumstances… anyway i have nothing to back it, so i never discussed it…

20

Re: Early Battles in Islam ; my evolution perception & Thesis

Das Reich - Dear brother ! there is no comparison of personalities in the up presented events whatsoever IMO. It is just like some Egyption scholar had protested during late 70s after release of ' The messsage'

How on earth Anthoney Quins played the character of Hazrat Hamza (ra) ???
1. Quins is a kaafir
2. Quins and Hazrat hamza had totally different life styles.

You protest matched the above mentioned protest but lacked supported material.
Myself, and the great director of *the message , *Moustafa Akkad have somewhat different pov. I want to absorb greater understanding of these historic but difficult events. It is possible when some simmilar phenomena existed in some other time period. I presented the one which I experienced or understood during recent past.

Psyah- This thread is not about the concept of Eternal return. I have not pondered about that theory. My aim is just to simplify the mysteries and incapacitated events in popular Islamic history, one way or another.

The other battles, fought by Prophet (pbuh) except these 4 mentioned above, are still beyond my comprehension. including Tabook, Muta, Hunain etc

I agree with Burqaposhx partially. These battles were very difficult to understand for us. The line of defense needed alot more time than what was available at that time.