Dutch Minister: Dutch "should be spoken in Mosques"

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

This would never have been an issue a year ago, and now I doubt it will go away. It is going to be an issue in all European countries. I wonder how long will it take to reach the shores of America?

Dutch ‘should be spoken in mosques’

The minister was a colleague of Pim Fortuyn

Islamic groups in the Netherlands have reacted angrily to a suggestion that only Dutch should be spoken in mosques.
The proposal - by a political colleague of the murdered anti-immigration politician Pim Fortuyn - came at the opening of a controversial new citizenship course for immigrant clerics.

We are born here, we speak Dutch: why do people not trust us?

A spokesman for a Dutch immigrants’ group
The BBC’s religious affairs reporter, Mark Duff, says the issue raises questions about how different faiths and values can coexist in today’s culturally and racially mixed Europe.

The idea that only Dutch should be spoken in the Netherlands’ approximately 450 mosques came in an off-the-cuff remark from the country’s immigration minister, Hilbrand Nawijn.

Mr Nawijn told journalists that Muslim clerics had a duty to convince their fellow believers that they should be loyal to the values and norms of Dutch society.

He said the new citizenship course was needed to improve the integration of immigrants - and that he would be looking at how best to promote the speaking of Dutch in places of worship.

New law

Mr Nawijn also said he planned to propose a new law that any religious leader who failed the course would be denied a visa.

A spokeswoman for Mr Nawijn said his comments reflected his deepest wishes - but stressed that he had not spelt out whether ritual prayers as well as sermons should be in Dutch.

The new course - which is mandatory for all newly-arrived foreign clerics - includes lessons in Dutch society and language.

Among the issues it will address are freedom of speech and religion, euthanasia and non-discrimination.

European debate

Most sensitive of all is likely to be the question of sexuality - especially the place of women and homosexuals in society.

Mr Nawijn’s mentor, the murdered - and gay - Pim Fortuyn, incensed many of the country’s 800,000 Muslims by dismissing Islam’s view on gays and women.

A spokesman for one immigrants’ group said young Muslims in the Netherlands today felt victims of a new anti-Islamic political culture.

“We are born here, we speak Dutch: why do people not trust us?” he asked.

The debate has resonance across Europe, not least in Britain, where the minister responsible for immigration, Home Secretary David Blunkett, is on record as saying that immigrants need to learn how best to accommodate their own culture to life in Britain today.

2

I think there is no Problem for certain Mosque to conduct their activities in Dutch Language if People who visited these mosques prefer that.

Leave it to people.

3

It really doesn't matter what language is being spoken,

Islam is still islam even if mosque speakers do speak in Dutch or English, Thai, Spanish or French e.t.c..

I don't see this as much of an issue, i agree with Google here.

4

Typically, people converse in the language which both parties understand. However, if its a large congregation, then any sermons should be delivered in the language of the land. Here in US, all Friday sermons are in English (mostly), and thats the way it should be. Even if majority participants speak some other native language. Its just courteous not to exclude other participants. Common denominator should be the local language.

Unless the Minister suggests that the prayer itself should be in Dutch and not in Arabic (I don't think he'd go that far), he has a point. If you are offering a sermon in Holland, why would you use any other language than Dutch?

5

In UK the sermons are both in Urdu and English, so there should be no problem with the sermon being in Dutch, unless he wants the prayer to be conducted in Dutch.

6

In the US where I live, all of them are usually carried out in Arabic, and I cant understand a word, and once I complained, now they have one translator who sits with us Paksitanis and translates into english... They do this because most of them are arabic, and since most of the pakistanis dont come to the mosques anywayz, they dont change the language just for two or three people, but they have provided an alternative. And I also believe them when they say they can do a better job for those ppl in Arabic then English, so the needs of the many outwieghs the needs of the few :)

7

yes i dont find any problem with speaking dutch in mosques
i think muslims must respect the land of thier labour and they must learn the local language too.
i have heard that a large number of muslims in holland stll dont speak dutch thats pathetic
we must assimililate in the society that gives us bread at the same time practising our religion

8

Here is an editorial from arab news on this topic. The editor does not seem to be as accomodating as some the posters above.
But then the editor has read more into the article than us, or has additional information that was not part of the article.

http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=19168
Editorial: Anti-Muslim bias
4 October 2002

…

Another instance of anti-Muslim bias, and one with potentially enormous ramifications, is the remark by the Dutch Immigration Minister Hilbrand Nawijn, who last week said that Dutch should be used in the country’s 450 or so mosques. No one should be surprised at the comment: Nawijn is a colleague of the murdered anti-immigration and anti-Muslim politician Pim Fortuyn. It is telling that he does not say that Dutch Jews should not use Hebrew or traditionalist Catholics, Latin; only Muslims are picked upon. And this cannot be dismissed as the ravings of a populist who will soon realize the impossibility of what he is saying and change tack. Nawijn has already piloted into being a course in Dutch and the values of Dutch society which all newly arrived foreign religious leaders must attend but which appears to be specifically targeted at Muslim clerics. Nawijn is on record as saying that they have a duty to convince fellow Muslims to be loyal to the values and norms of Dutch society. Nothing difficult about that, one might say, especially when those norms include freedom of speech and religion. But they also include euthanasia and sexual issues, such as the rights of homosexuals. These, too, religious scholars are supposed to not only endorse but also promote in mosques. They are not going to say yes to that. Nawijn now intends to bring in a law that anyone who fails the course will be kicked out of the country. Clearly, any new Muslim leader arriving in the Netherlands who is not prepared to sign up to these “values” would face expulsion.

This is far more serious discrimination than what is happening at airports in the US. It is an attack on Islam and its values, indeed on the very freedom of religion that Nawijn and the Netherlands supposedly support. It has to be fought all the way.

Put alongside the UK home secretary’s remarks that immigrants must accommodate their own culture to life in Britain, it looks to be a disturbing indication of where Europe is heading.

9

I have been folloing this matter, and as far as Dutch is concerned I say that is Ok, but as you pointed out above that them omposing their ideology on our religion, that is totally wrong.

In my personal opinion I dont think 'Nawijn will be successful in all his plans. What his plans did do is open a new discussion between the Muslim community and the Dutch community. Which in turn will help solve many problems that exited in the Dutch society for years but no one cared to do anything about that.