Dubai Declaration/My leader ... (Merged)

As the Murree Declaration signed in a Pakistani city has now expired, without even getting off the ground, Nawaz Sharif and his clan are busy chasing Asif Zardari in a foreign city - Dubai, to desperately sign some face-saving agreement on the judges issue. Reports thus far indicate that both leaders have agreed to:-

  • Maintain their coalition govt.
  • Additional time-frame to restore the judges.
  • Constitutional package, rather than simple resolution, to effect restoration of judges.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7373767.stm

We wish them success. They will need it. :slight_smile:

Re: Dubai Declaration


Makes sense. As was discussed in this forum for the last few days, there is no way NS will part ways from PPP at this time, and risk losing Punjab. Plus these legal issues, take time to sort through.

Listening to many lawyers on Geo over the last 2 days, it seems there is a basic disagreement. Some top-notch lawyers (Pirzada, Khalid Anwar etc) think that there is no easy way to dispose off current judges. Some other lawyers think that since the 7-panel SC bench had ruled against the Nov 2 order (before another bench ruled that out as well), so any thing done after that is "irregular", therefore getting rid of current judges is relitively straightforward, and old judges can be brought back right away.

Politics aside, this is an immensly thorny legal issue because the ultimate arbitrator in any legal case is the very body (Supreme Court) which is at the center of this case.

Shabash hai Zardari pe, that he only realized 3 days before the so-called "deadline" that the issue is not so straight forward. NS will do well, not to get into this ugly game of reverse counting and deadlines etc. Not everything is a plate of halwa that has to be eaten very quickly. Think and then commit.

Re: Dubai Declaration

If at the end of the day they restore the judges and clip the presidents power than the extra wait would be worth it. However, if the illegal and unconstitutional decisions of Nov 3 stays than that will be a big tragedy for Pakistan. Pakistan matters, zardari or Mush do not. So the decisions taken must be correct and restore the supremacy of the parliament instead of a a one man show.

Re: Dubai Declaration

Two rounds of talks today have failed to produce any results. A third round is due to be held tomorrow. We wish them success in their talks, because then they can get back to Pakistan, and start putting it into action - sometime :slight_smile:

Dubai talks on judges’ reinstatement sans progress

The second round of crucial talks on judges restoration between Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) and Pakistan Muslim League-N has also been completed here but without any progress. After the talks, PML-N leader Chaudhry Nisar Ahmed Khan said the third round will be held on Thursday. PPP Co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari and PML-N Chief Mian Nawaz Sharif led their respective delegations. It was hoped that the Murree Declaration would lead to the addition of a new chapter in the country’s political history but the main coalition parties are still divided on the issue of deposed judges reinstatement.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=44613

Re: Dubai Declaration

:slight_smile:
A fact you fail to notice in any discussion is that ALL parties agree that the illigitamate Presidents power is going to be clipped to the point that he will bea universal laughing stock and figure head that he deserves to be.

Re: Dubai Declaration

Daleel bhai. What is interesting is the fact that the the govt wants to accomodate the former judges through a constitution amendemnt, and accommodate them alongside the existing judges. This by default is the acceptance of the PCO and Nov 3 rulings as being legitimate.

We can all now rest assured that Great Zardari will indeed restore the supremacy of the Parliament, by taking away the unprecedented powers that the EX CJ and the Judiciary was given by Great President Musharaf. Parliament will rightly reign supreme, rather than highly politicized Judiciary as it had become under the EX CJ.

Re: Dubai Declaration

Well my friend, dreams are very easy to saw. But be realistic, current collation government doesn't have majority in Senate. So lets see the tamasha.

Re: Dubai Declaration

For the record, I am now getting a bit tired with this issue. Entire news segments on TV channels are dominated by this, as if this is the single largest issue facing our country. Frankly, its not. Yes, we can yip yap all day how an independent judiciary is the corner-stone of development and progress, fact is, no one gives a $hit about independence of judiciary here. This is all about egos, self-interests and power trips, and how to bring your opponent down.

Mushy wanted Ifti out, because Ifti was a danger to his rule, and Mushy is convinced that Pakistan will flounder without Mushy at the helm.

Ifti wants to be back because, obviously he lost his job, and he wants to spite Mushy. More latter, than former, because otherwise he’d have taken the Governorship of Balochistan or accept some other cushy foreign ambassadorship as an alternate. But no, he wants to be the most lame duck CJ in the history of Pakistan.

Zardari does not want Ifti back, because he is afraid that will reverse the whole NRO thingy, and Zardari will again be in the lam. Plus he doesn’t really like Ifti anyway.

NS wants Ifti back, so Ifti can challenge Mushy’s legitimacy, and NS can sit back and enjoy the tamasha.

In all this, the common man is being crushed every day under increasing prices of fuel, power and daily groceries as well as crippling load-shedding, rising unemployment, closing down of factories and sweltering heat. But the TV channels have a parade of legal experts every day, boring us to tears about the legality/illegality of Nov 2, and PCO, and “package” and other such exciting stuff. Talk about priorities! :rolleyes:

At the end of Dubai, they will agree to bring a whole package that will restore judges, reduce CJ’s tenure, take away his suo-moto powers, remove 58-2-b - and yes, this will all take its sweet time. Well, to be honest, there is no real hurry here, anyway. Its not like there are some real pressing cases of national importance sitting in front of CJ and they don’t have any judges available to hear them.

Re: Dubai Declaration

Now even those commentators who had predicted that Nawaz was a win-win situation, and Musharraf would be the loser are recanting. They have now jumped onto the bandwagon of those who want to Clip the powers of a Chief Justice and the judges.

Dark art —Shaukat Qadir

The compromise now under discussion, in which the CJ’s tenure is reduced to 2010 from the original 2013 and his arbitrary powers, particularly on the issue of suo moto notices, are to be shared by a bench of judges, does not seem unreasonable

It has been obvious for some time now that all is not well with the ruling coalition, in particular its two largest components the PPP and the PMLN; clearly the issue of the restoration of judges has become a sore point. It is also becoming obvious that those self-styled analysts, including this author, who were of the opinion that Nawaz Sharif was in a win-win situation, had erred. For the current situation to have been created, wherein Sharif is no longer so well placed, apparently, the credit, if credit can be given for devious politics, has to go to Asif Zardari; but then politics is not only the ‘art of the possible’, it is also a game of dirty manipulation and exploitation, and Zardari seems to be playing his cards very well indeed. Not only is the restoration of judges an issue but it seems possible that the expulsion of Musharraf is also likely to become a major issue that might finally force these two major parties apart.

*Despite the open discussions on clipping President Musharraf’s powers to force him out, Musharraf is unmoved. So much so that even Javier Solana, the Chief of Foreign Affairs for the EU, has had the gall to predict that Musharraf will retain the presidency till he retires! **Let us examine the undercurrents of the political scene these days. Nawaz Sharif was the only prominent leader who made restoration of the judiciary a major point in his election campaign. As a consequence, even though most of the seats his party won were from Punjab with only a couple in the Frontier; his espousal of the cause of the judiciary, for the first time, made him a leader with a following in the other provinces. *It was for this reason that some analysts concluded that he could not lose: if he managed to force the restoration of the judiciary, he was the victor and if he was forced to quit the coalition because the PPP did not play along, forcing the PPP into an alliance with the PMLQ to retain the central government, he was still the victor.

*While there is little doubt that the premature demise of the PPP may be the consequence of their forging an alliance with the PMLQ in the centre, there are other dynamics also at play. While Sharif is still insistent on the restoration of the judges, he is being forced to reach a compromise. The only reason for him to compromise on this issue is in the interest of ensuring Musharraf’s ouster from the political scene. **However, if he agrees to a compromise that reduces the CJ’s tenure to three years so that it ends within months of his restoration, he will lose all that he has gained by his stance. ****However, the compromise now under discussion, in which the CJ’s tenure is reduced to 2010 from the original 2013 and his arbitrary powers, particularly on the issue of suo moto notices, are to be shared by a bench of judges, does not seem unreasonable. ****No individual, not even the CJ, should enjoy arbitrary powers; and if he stays till 2010 he will not be deemed to have been shelved immediately, since he will have two more years to address the contentious issues that he wishes to. *This decision may still be considered unacceptable by the lawyers and Nawaz will still lose some political ground.

***But there is more to it than just that. Certain vibes emanating from the Zardari camp are indicative of a desire to co-exist with Musharraf. Malik Qayyum, Musharaf’s Attorney General, continues to hold his post; the PPP’s interior minister, Rehman Malik, and the Law Minister, Farooq Naek, continue to hold secret meetings with Musharraf; Kamal Shah, another Musharraf protégé, continues as Secretary Interior; Gen Mahmood Ali Durrani, undoubtedly competent to advise the government on security matters, but equally undoubtedly a Musharraf man, has been appointed adviser to the PPP government the moment he returned from his stint as Musharraf’s ambassador to the US; and, meanwhile, Gen Nadeem Taj, a die hard pro-Musharraf man, continues to head the premier intelligence agency, the ISI! ***

*Has Zardari struck a deal with Musharraf? Is his intention to weaken Sharif’s recently gained political strength due to his espousal of the cause of restoration of the judiciary, by forcing him into an unpalatable compromise with promises of ensuring the eviction of Musharraf? **Zardari has demonstrated the weakness of his position with regard to the American government; first by responding to the summons of Ms Patterson, the US Ambassador, and again by agreeing to meet Mr Boucher, during his recent post-election visit, at the ambassador’s residence; whereas both these individuals have met with all other political players, big and small, at the residences of the political leaders. **The US administration might have stated that the restoration of the judges is Pakistan’s internal matter, as also is Musharraf’s fate, but there is little doubt that the restoration of a judiciary in Pakistan that again takes up the issue of the ‘missing persons’ will certainly not be well received by the US administration. It is equally certain that they would still like to see Musharraf as one of the political players in Pakistan, even if bereft of most of his powers. *Zardari may have turned a new leaf but something stinks to the heavens in this latest round of political manipulation.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\04\26\story_26-4-2008_pg3_4

Re: Dubai Declaration

^^ Dear Reza,

Nawaz is in win-win Situation, Judges restored or not...

Now the situation is:

1) Nawaz have portrayed himself is the only party who are working hard and ready to sacrifice ( give up ministries) for their stand,i.e., restoration of judeges.

2) in the current talky-show going on in DUBAI, Nawaz have played his cards well... the economic, political and judiciary crisis are the challenges which the current govt have inherited from Mush-Regime... It will take a miracle to solve this problem in 100 days or even in year or 2 years time.

3) The PPP govt. ( incase PML-N quitsgovt) in order to save face, will put her best efforts to over come all of these or atleast the economic crisis... the additional electricity of 1000+MW from iran and gas pipeline contracts will ease the pressure in coming years... but the situation will still be there...

NOW the ground realities are... Zardari is not willing to restore judges ( whatever his reservations or stance is) but he has signed Muree Accord... PML-N will sit on Opposition benches... and join the APDM and create start their election campaign on issue like Judiciary and economic crisis... with the moto.. we have no LUST of power...

On the other hand, if the Judiciary issue is solved and Judges are restored Nawaz will be out of the game... voters have short memory.. they will not remember his efforts (if any) for the restoration of Judges... so in next election he might vae very limited issues to work on... and this is the situation Nawaz don't want..

above is another conspiracy theory... can be wrong...

Re: Dubai Declaration

Yet another writer reversing his previous stance, and admitting that it is now a lose-lose situation for Nawaz Sharif - whatever is now agreed.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/05/01/images/top01.jpg

Not a ‘win-win’ situation for Nawaz

By By Rauf Klasra

Asif Ali Zardari continues to exploit the worst weakness of Nawaz Sharif – his widely publicised hatred for Pervez Musharraf since October 12, 1999, when a handcuffed prime minister was dragged out of the PM House that fateful night. A comfortable Zardari is now testing Nawaz’s nerves by taking different positions at regular intervals on the issue of the restoration of judges, as he cleverly understands that Nawaz knows that any hasty decision on his part might help resurrect the otherwise virtually dumped president. *Zardari knows that Nawaz would not like to part ways at this stage when they are discussing how to clip the powers of the president, followed by his impeachment. **Background interviews with some top politicians revealed that Nawaz was facing the worst dilemma of his political life. If he does not end his “political romance” with the PPP (in case the judges are not restored within a week), then he would instantly come down with a thud. And if he breaks the alliance in his bid to live up to the people’s expectations, then his bitter enemy Musharraf would be the sole beneficiary of his hasty move. ***

Many insiders believe that Nawaz is being politically “blackmailed” by Zardari, who fully understands the difficulties the former prime minister might face in case he quits the alliance. Sources said although both the leaders were committed to restoring the judges in the light of the Murree accord, differences between the two sides continued to mar their political relationship. These observers feel that unlike the public perception that Nawaz is in a “win-win” situation whether or not the judges are restored, the situation is quite otherwise. But the diehard supporters of “win-win” theory feel that in case the judges are not restored, Nawaz could force the PPP to join hands with the PML-Q to save its government. This scenario might be very scary for Zardari, as he himself had declared the PML-Q as “Qatil League”. So, Zardari’s alliance with Pervez Elahi would make him the most unpopular leader in the whole of Pakistan, more so in Sindh where the Sindhis are already furious over his desperate bids to make an alliance with the MQM. On the other hand, the public, media, civil society and lawyers would turn towards Nawaz who in the process might become a big political force even in Sindh. In this situation, the only beneficiary would be Nawaz Sharif.

*And if judges are restored, Nawaz would be rightly taking the full credit for their restoration as it was his party that actually championed the cause of the defiant judges. Nawaz would thus emerge as the “principled politician” who had delivered on what he had promised to the people. **But, some analysts do not subscribe to the “win-win” theory and feel that Asif Zardari clearly knows the dangerous level of enmity between Nawaz and Musharraf. Zardari fully understands that it would not be as easy for Nawaz to quit the coalition government as his party leaders would have us believe. By breaking the alliance, he would pave the way for the pro-Musharraf political parties to join the PPP-led government, thus playing right into the hands of Musharraf. This is what Nawaz would never like to happen, and would rather side with Zardari to clip Musharraf’s powers and finally impeach him to settle the score. *Sources said Nawaz’s enmity with Musharraf has now become a big burden for him, as only he knows a lot is at stake if he ends his cooperation with the PPP. They say when the time comes it would not be easy for Nawaz to ask his ministers to resign as he knows it would mean immediate resurrection of Musharraf, which he would like to avoid at all costs.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/print1.asp?id=108694

Re: Dubai Declaration

Here is the summary of Dubai declaration

"Nawaz Shareef is stupid."

Re: Dubai Declaration

Looks like an agreement .

http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/05/01/pakistan-coalition-lives-to-fight-another-day/

Nawaz is My Leader: Zardari

It seems like Zardari has just thrown in the white towel :biggthumb

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=44680

DUBAI: Co-chairman Pakistan People’s Party, Asif Ali Zardari Thursday reiterated commitment to the Murree Declaration, saying there are no difference on the issues at hand.

In connection with Dubai talks, he said Pakistan Muslim League-N Chief Nawaz Sharif is his leader :jhanda: and he (Zardari) will be able to say anything on the matter after Nawaz Sharif’s news conference in Pakistan.

“So far there have been no differences,” Asif Zardari said, hoping there will be problems at a later stage as well.

Re: Nawaz is My Leader: Zardari

No more rhetorics …restore judges…

Re: Dubai Declaration/My leader ... (Merged)

After teeth displaying press conference on the third day of BB's death when the so called 'will' was read for his amusement, anything is possible from Zardari. He is becoming more dramabaaz and there is a great chance that he might surpass the mighty royal highness Altaf in dramabaazi and tassway bahana.

Cheap politicians.

Re: Dubai Declaration

NS is only doing a personal politics right now.

Even if Iftikhar Chaudhary gets reinstated , it is not the freedom of Law & Justice in pakistan.

A guy whose own govt. had ransacked the Supreme Court , what can you expect.

Re: Dubai Declaration/My leader ... (Merged)

End Result: Musharraf must be disgracefully throttled out of the country for good.

Re: Dubai Declaration/My leader ... (Merged)

If Zardari offers that he could takeout Musharraf, without putting CJ Chaudhry incharge, Shareef will agree. Its very personal for him. Too bad, he is trying to show it as whole nation's issue. If it were nation's issue, they would have elected PMLN, not PPP as the top party.

Re: Dubai Declaration/My leader … (Merged)

Mashallah.

So,

  1. A simple resolution will be passed, stating the intention to restore the judges; 2) Then a constitutional amendment will be made stripping the judges of the unprecedented powers given to them by great President Musharaf;
  2. PM will issue an executive order restoring the ten judges and allowing them to sit on the bench again, alongside the existing 17 judges. :

I hope the period between 1 and 3 is not greater than 30 days. Assuming of-course that no one changes their mind. :hehe: