Drone Attacks...a different view

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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I understand where majority of guppies stand on drone issues … but here is an interesting article and an interview of someone who actually lives in tribal region.

I also feel that many guppies feel compelled to oppose drone attacks just because they support Imran khan. Please have an open stand. Just imagine..what if imran khan was supporting drone attacks? where would gupies stand then?

There is a reason why talibans hate drone attacks and so scared of them…that is the only thing hurting them and not allowing them to plan properly.

and what sovereignty? The nation of Pakistan has had no control over the tribal region for decades … Pakistani law doesn’t apply in the tribal regions, neither the Constitution nor any other law…”

And responding to a question about the vexed issue of high civilian casualties in the drone campaign, Hassan said: ***“That’s nonsense. Pure propaganda… It seems to me that these [Bureau of Investigative Journalism] figures are made up of thin air. Most of the estimates are based on Pakistani newspaper articles, which in turn are based on information from people in the tribal regions that cannot be verified"

Finally, asked why he had agreed to talk to the media, Hassan replied: “Because I feel the need to talk. Sometimes I have the feeling I am going crazy. There is more support for drone attacks in the tribal areas than people out there in the world think. But no one dares to speak up. Everyone is afraid. Anyone who says a good word about the drones is finished. No one knows who is on which side…"

A CIA agent?s take on drones - DAWN.COM***

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Re: Drone Attacks...a different view

All I think is that in order for the law and order problem to be solved, Pakistan needs to stop hiding behind Uncle Sam's scottish skirts and act against these people. You don't need the national government in the US ordering the police to do their own job here.

Imran khan is partially right about drones, but where I part ways with him is about what to do when the drones are not there. He is unwilling to put that on record, perhaps because of fear for this party workers or for his alliance with jamaat when diesel (and pml-n...) have already called him an agent of the "jewish lobby".

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fine..i dont disagree that if we have a better plan than drone attacks...then lets stop drone and do plan B

but that is the point...we have no Plan B....our army has no other way to handle these monsters and finish them. One shd note that from 2001-2008, drone attacks were almost non-existent and general expectation was that pak army will be able to contain/eliminate these monsters but we could not kill anyone...

once naik mohammad and then elder mahsood were killed in drone attacks, only then both US and pak army realized that drone attacks are the only way to go. That is why our army fully supports drone attacks.

Imran's plan B is to negotiate with these animals but that is not exactly a plan....more like a surrender considering these monsters have gazallion conditions before they come to the table.

I repeat again..the only weapon that these monsters are sacred off is drone....why do want to eliminate them and give taliban an upper hand? this whole notion of collateral damage is way overhyped

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The issue is that the whole issue of sovereignty is a hot button item in Pakistan and the mullahs can use it to their advantage for taliban. Pakistani govt and army should realize it and be prepared like men to finish the problem be what it may. Unfortunately, that takes leadership and this area of pakistan hasn't produced that many leaders. I believe Ayaz Amir wrote about it though he was specific about Punjab.

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Drone strikes have killed some high profile terrorists, there’s no doubt about it. If the US had used it sparingly against high profile targets I don’t think anyone would have had an issue with it, the hatred against the strikes have increased after the blanket strikes they have conducted between 2009 and 2012. The fact of the matter is Pakistans government does not have accurate figures of exactly how many civilians have been killed, there’s this article in dawn today on this.
The drones are creating anti Americanism in all the countries they are being used in. The US should do a cost benefit analysis to see if its worth it.

Flawed Analysis of Drone Strike Data Is Misleading Americans - Atlantic Mobile

http://www.dawn.com/news/1074754/little-data-lots-of-debate-on-drone-raids

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Re: Drone Attacks…a different view

Signature drone strikes can only be justified if we agree with Obama administrations definition of militants (all military aged men are militants). This definition also gives an insight into the numbers of civilians killed. If we agree with the definition then the solution is very simple, just nuke/carpet bomb the militant infested areas.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html

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I think Imran’s part of illuminati. Oh look he’s even controlling the UN. Ban ki Moon must be Imran fanboy as well.

UN calls for drone strikes to comply with international law

UNITED NATIONS: The UN General Assembly on Wednesday adopted a resolution calling on states using drone strikes as a counter-terrorism measure to comply with international law as the 193-member body acted on a range of issues relating mainly to human rights.

The unanimous call for regulating the use of remotely piloted aircraft against suspected terrorists was contained in a comprehensive 28-paragraph resolution, titled “Protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms while countering terrorism”. The portion about drone strikes was included as a result of intensive efforts made by the Pakistan delegation. (Was Imran part of this delegation or it was strictly a PMLN camp?)

It is the first time that the General Assembly has spoken out on the use of armed drones — a key but controversial component of the US war against terrorism, including against targets inside Pakistan.

In this regard, the Assembly underscored the** “urgent and imperative”** need for an agreement among member states on legal questions about drone operations.

The resolution urges states “to ensure that any measures taken or means employed to counter terrorism, including the use of remotely piloted aircraft, comply with their obligations under international law, including the Charter of the United Nations, human rights law and international humanitarian law, in particular the principles of distinction and proportionality".

The text also calls for taking into account “relevant United Nations resolutions and decisions on human rights, and encourages them to give due consideration to the recommendations of the special procedures and mechanisms of the Human Rights Council and to the relevant comments and views of United Nations human rights treaty bodies”.

The resolution also takes note of the report of the Special Rapporteur Ben Emersson, “which refers, inter alia, to the use of remotely piloted aircraft and notes the recommendations, including the urgent and imperative need to seek agreement among Member States on legal questions pertaining to remotely piloted aircraft operations”.

The text also encouraged “states while countering terrorism to undertake prompt, independent and impartial fact-finding inquiries whenever there are plausible indications of possible breaches to their obligations under international human rights law, with a view to ensuring accountability”.

I**t may be recalled that the Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, in his address to the United Nations General Assembly on Sept 27, 2013, strongly raised the issue of drones. He had said that the use of armed drones in the border areas of Pakistan were a continued violation of Pakistan’s territorial integrity and also stressed that they result in casualties of innocent civilians and are detrimental to efforts to eliminate extremism and terrorism. **

Foreign Office spokeswoman Tasneem Aslam said Pakistan has been raising the issue of drones at all relevant international fora including the UN to raise international public opinion against the use of drones.

The issue of drone strikes will also be taken up by the UN Human Rights Council in its March 2014 session.

UN calls for drone strikes to comply with international law - DAWN.COM

Bet you weren’t gonna post that?

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you just did…no one stopped you.

Doppleganger](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/members/doppleganger.html) asked the most imp question…what is your plan B to handle these monsters? i mean we need to have a solid plan B which is even more effective than drone attacks

if you want to go with full militarily action..that is fine but remember it will bring so many civilian causalities that you will start praying for drone attacks to resume.

now if we want to surrender and sit for negotiations with these monsters…that is fine too…just remember they they have 101 conditions by the way…sure go ahead!

plus this whole issue of civilian casualties is way overestimated… our own govt and intelligence agencies have said that civilian casualties are way less than what urdu press reports…and if anything, these monsters are responsible for those deaths as they hide in civilian population.

I repeat again…there is nothing that hurts zaliman monsters more than drone attacks. they are so scared of these drones. our army has unfortunately failed to kill one single important taliban leader by traditional means.

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Make me the Prime Minister?! :halo:

What do you mean what my plan B is? Did I ever by any chance sleep talked here and said I am a foreign Policy maker or a head of intelligence agency? I’m sorry the day I get paid their saleries, I’d happily come with any B, C, D titled plan.

But thanks for the chuckle.

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no issues…i guess i am a “gupshup chuckler” and that too for free!

and hey you dont need their salaries..that dont make that much.

but on a serious note…in the end we Pakistanis are screwed…plan A or Plan B or Plan C. but yeah for now i do support drone unless i see a better plan.

happy holidays!

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There are always multiple views of an issue/event. One man's problem is another man's solution and vice versa. I never supported drone attacks, I started to support Imran Khan because he was also against drone attacks (including other reasons). It is army's responsibility to tackle militants. Civilian govt must step up and provide resources to army to ensure that army does not feel that they will be alone fighting the militants while the 'public enmasse' is opposing army. Both civilian and army idiots have to sit together to think of plans to tackle them.

Army wants to protect its own set of 'strategic assets' while civilian administration wants to stay in bed with certain elements to stay in charge. Both of them will have to divorce the extremists in their political homes.

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there you go Captain jee...your post is a great example to showcase why we need drone attacks....

we don't have any plans to eliminate these zalim monsters...per your own post, if our army is inefficient, bureaucrats are selfish and corrupt, and civilian adminsitration is useless.... then what shd we do? just sit tight and let these zalimans kill us?

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I am not living in FATA or around it, so I am not going to tell you how to implement or develop the plan for implementation. Army CAN do it, the reason they are not doing is not because they don't have a plan. There are multiple reasons of not doing it. But if we let US keep droning these areas the problem will only multiply, it is not going to solve as it has not solved in last 7-8 years.

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oh i see...so our army CAN DO IT but they dont have a plan....i mean i dont know what to say on this statement...... this is a 'strange" argument.

what kind of army is this who is not controlling these monsters who are cutting heads of army soldiers? why?

the fact of the matter is that Army HAS ZERO PLAN and zero implementation power considering how tough the terrain is ... other than conducting a full military operation but in that case there will be sever civilian causalities but in the end we may not have any other alternative. This is the price army has to pay for supporting and nurturing these terrorists for over 20 years. this is what happens when you feed a snake....

and who says drone is failing..bhai sahib drone is the only weapon which has frightened these monsters. they cannot have their regular shura meetings anymore..their leadership is getting eliminated. the better question is what did we achieve before we had drones? nothing..naik mohammads and mahsoods were wandering freely

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some solid drone facts that clearly show the extent of misinformation spread by the right wing and Imran khan

Drone facts - Dr Farrukh Saleem

 Drone facts 
 

 [Dr Farrukh Saleem](http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintWriterName.aspx?ID=9&URL=Dr%20Farrukh%20Saleem) Sunday, December 22, 2013

From Print Edition

 36  6  25  3

http://images.thenews.com.pk/22-12-2013/Opinion/12-22-2013_221803_l_akb.jpg

Capital suggestion

Fact 1: The first suicide attack in Pakistan took place on November 19, 1995. Ayman al-Zawahiri claimed to have planned the attack on the Egyptian embassy in Islamabad. The attack killed 17 and injured 60. Fact 2: The second suicide attack in Pakistan took place on May 8, 2002 in which nine French nationals and five Pakistanis were killed in Karachi.

Fact 3: The third suicide attack in Pakistan took place on July 4, 2003. The attack killed 54 and injured 57.

Fact 4: The fourth suicide attack in Pakistan took place on December 25, 2003. The attack killed 15 and injured 46 in the Jhanda Chichi area of Rawalpindi.

Fact 5: The first drone attack took place on June 18, 2004. The attack killed Nek Muhammad Wazir, a militant commander.

Conclusion: The first suicide attack took place nearly nine years prior to the first drone attack. The second suicide attack took place nearly two years prior to the first drone attack. Suicide attacks came first and then came drones. Obviously, drone attacks are not the cause behind suicide attacks.

Fact 6: In 2000, there were 14 bomb blasts in Karachi, Sialkot, Hyderabad, Torkham, Lahore, Quetta and Islamabad (among other cities).

Fact 7: In 2001, there were 62 bomb blasts in Lahore, Gilgit, Sialkot, Rawalpindi, Peshawar, Gujrat, Muridke,Gujranwala and Karachi (among other cities).

Fact 8: In 2002, there were 35 bomb blasts in Islamabad, Abbottabad, Lahore, Taxila, Sialkot, Karachi, Haripur and Sahiwal (among other cities)

Fact 9: In 2003, there were 41 bomb blasts in Karachi, Sukkur, Hyderabad, Jhang, D I Khan, Jacobabad and Rawalpindi(among other cities).

Conclusion: There were close to 200 bomb blasts prior to the first drone attack. Bomb blasts came first and then came drones. Obviously, drone attacks are not the cause behind bomb blasts.

Consider this: In January 2011, Gallup Pakistan carried out a survey of a nationally representative sample of 2,754 men and women in rural and urban areas of all four provinces of Pakistan. They were asked the following question: “In your opinion which is the biggest problem currently faced by Pakistan?”

A total of 55 percent considered inflation to be the biggest issue currently faced by Pakistanis, followed by 21 percent who considered terrorism as the biggest issue and 16 percent who said unemployment was the biggest problem (eight percent gave other responses).

Conclusion: For 92 percent of all Pakistanis drone attacks are not the “biggest problem currently faced by Pakistan (http://gallup.com.pk/Polls/27-01-11.pdf).”

These are all facts while almost all other drone-related figures on casualties have little or no authenticity because there is absolutely no state writ in areas where drones are falling.

Are drone attacks illegal under international law? Yes, drone attacks are illegal under international law because drone attacks do not have the approval of the UN Security Council and military force against another member-state of the UN can only be used either with the approval of the UN Security Council or the consent of the member-state being attacked.

Why don’t we then lodge an official petition? What if the US claims Pakistan’s ‘consent’, the only other condition under which a member-state of the UN can use military force against another member-state?

Conclusion: The issue of drone attacks is not a black-and-white issue.

The writer is a columnist based in Islamabad. Email: [email protected]. Twitter: @saleemfarrukh

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Another view :stuck_out_tongue:

the government should facilitate him, so that once for all we know how many terrorists have actually been killed.

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the real reason for war in this region since 2001..

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the real reasons are never discussed in mainstream media.. as long as the snake is here you can never have any hope for peace..