Re: Dr. Wafa Sultan, Why is she under threat to her life...
Some of the clarification you gave come from centuries ago, and that's one of the point she (not me, I have my point of view) makes that Islam got stuck in that era ...
"It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century."
I am glad you found it a little helpful,
Regarding muslims living in the past.....again I would say that is not entirely inaccurate
But that is used as an excuse to attack the very fundamentals of the faith
do you think this kind of approach helps those who are trying to build bridges?
Imagine that the Germans in ww2 were called racists while there were no mixed race units in the US army
Just a hundred years ago in america women couldnt vote .....40yrs ago blacks had no rights, now if in some parts of muslim world discrimmination is found against minorities and women that is immediatly blamed on the "backwardness of islam" "mediveal mindset" I think that is a gross exaggeration.A similar example would be if a muslim traveler to europe in middleages tries to draw conclusions about christanity by pointing at their filthy personalhabits, witchburning, illiteracy etc.
My personal belief is societies evolve at their own pace sometimes rapidly at other times there is stagnation
the reason I used refs from earlier times (book of joshua) is simply to compare the Jewish prophets with Muhammad(pbuh)
According to Islamic beliefs different prophets are given diffrent roles by God
Some have only the role to warn and preach others are given temporal authority as well like David(pbuh) and Soloman(pbuh)
.Mohammad(pbuh) was a prophet similar to them, therefore if the origins of Islam are rooted in warfare so are those of christianity and judaism.
Really I cannot comment on hinduism(due to lack of knowledge) but Mahabarat and Ramayan(spelling?) also relate to warfare
What i love is that two white red-necks who have already shown they hate islam will not agree to 15 muslims who have posted saying the woman is a retard, but listen to a woman who agrees with the point of view.
Its a common issue. You believe what you want to believe not the truth. This is a perfect example. Bash Islam all you want. People are not going to change their views because of what one woman says. That is what scares you.
Muslims will do anything for their religion. Religion is paramount. That scares you.
Das, gives a great prespective and you are dot on ... I see lot of reason. I am totally in agreement with you that gaps/weaknesses/shortcomings in society in Muslim world shouldn't be passed to Islam as religion. Infact I have great respect for this religion, as I said earlier some of my best friends are Muslims and we discuss religion freely.
Other religion/ groups/ nations changed since they didn't kill the voice of reason and somehow heard it, and things changed.
Don't you think those voices are being silenced today by nexus of Terrosim and Mullahs and it shoud be opposed by Muslims. Only Muslims can do it, anybody else will be seen as biased...
Infact I have great respect for this religion, as I said earlier some of my best friends are Muslims and we discuss religion freely.
Your views are very refreshing .....Islam stands for freedom of speech e.g in the times of caliph umar(ra) people could go right up to him and criticize his conduct if they found any faults in it.
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Other religion/ groups/ nations changed since they didn't kill the voice of reason and somehow heard it, and things changed
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Maybe I didnt express myself clearly in my earlier post
I am not sure how much you are familiar with islamic history but let me give you a very brief overview
The religion of Islam changed radically only about 30yrs after the death of the prophet(saw) for the worse.
by that time most of the pious companions and followers of the prophet(pbuh) had either grown too old ,had died or were killed by their former enemies , so without their guiding influence the arabs drifted back to the times of ignorance.This was the counter revolution that turned Islam from being a liberator of oppressed people(as it was in the times of Muhammad(pbuh) and the next four caliphs) to an expansionist imperial power.Unfortunately many muslims still look back to these times as the "golden age" this was only a golden period for Arab/persian/turkish imperialism.The next stage in the evolution would be to return to the egalitarian message of Brotherhood, social and economic justice as was preached by the prophet(pbuh) and the early muslims.This does not however mean that we start living like in the middleages (someething that the taliban tried to imitate)
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Don't you think those voices are being silenced today by nexus of Terrosim and Mullahs and it shoud be opposed by Muslims
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to be honest I think the muslims who could really make a difference are silent bystanders
only voices being raised are either the warmongers who cleverly exploit political disputes and brainwash young people with their deviant ideology
or are those so-called moderate muslims or apologists who take pride in openly violating the islamic injunctions and try to belittle the role of religion in their lives.These two groups are not a new phenomena in Islam, the Predecessors of the former one were called kharijites in early islamic period and the latter group are like those imperialist (ummayyads/abbassids/safavids etc) who gained power after the demise of pious caliphate.
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Only Muslims can do it, anybody else will be seen as biased..
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very true ....the muslim scholars and ulemas need to forget their sectarian diffrences and work togather to defeat these two menaces that I mentioned above, not only for the sake of muslims but for humanity at large.
Das, its great to have lovely discussion .... this is one discussion that had some great insights. Hope that Muslim Scholars and Ulemas come together and soon let the true Islam which you said was there during first few decades after prophet...
There are so many similarties in preaching of Islam and Hinduism that its not funny.......... but that in some other thread...........
Yes, that scares me and scares others in world as well. Since Hitler said Aryans are paramount and we all know what he did to world..
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Difference is my dear moron, is that Europe has a history of racism and genocide. Open up a history book on that matter. Comparing Muslims to Hitler is low, considering you indians voted in to power a party that models itself on the Nazi. The BJP/RSS.
Difference is my dear moron, is that Europe has a history of racism and genocide. Open up a history book on that matter. Comparing Muslims to Hitler is low, considering you indians voted in to power a party that models itself on the Nazi. The BJP/RSS.
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First thing you are abusive to core and in any formal conversation, you would have been dumped quickly. Second you love generalizing, that makes your arguments hollow.
Though mods in these threads seems to get pleasure in seeing abuses fly by…
Now I didn’t compare Muslims to Hitler … YOU DID…
I made a simple argument, when anybody say I am paramount and I will do anything for it… that’s a dangerous trend…
<< Since I have already pained you enough to start abusing me and calling me Moron, it doesn’t make sense for me to be in this thread and pain you more… … there will be other time… >>
Her arguements are feeble minded and self hating. She respects the west that exploits and enslaves the rest of the world. Look to the creator of the problem, not they symptom. Muslims share blame, no doubt. But the West is in a position to dictate activities, not us.
