Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

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You missed the point of my post. The madrassahs of today that produced Taliban are not the same as the madrassahs of Iqbal's time.
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Madrassas have always produced fighters/mujahideen. Madrassas on Iqbals time produced Syed Ahmed Shaheed and Shah Ismail Shaheed and Shaikh ul Hind Mahmood ul Hassan and Hussain Ahmed Madani and Abul Kalam Azaad.

What did Iqbal said about Hussain Ahmed Madani who fought against the British and was sent to Malta (Guantanamo bay of their times):

"Hussain Ahmed Madani was the flag-bearer of the Independce of India. He went through many hardships/difficulties at the hands of Farangi (British). His only concern (dhun) was to finish the governence of Farangi from India and gain indepence for India". (Iqbal aur Ulmae Pak-o-Hind page 387).

He also praised Maulana Abul Kalam Azaad. He said about Maulana Ismail Shaheed that if today we had one more Ismail Shaheed, Muslims would not be in the situation they are now.

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We can discus the details some other time, but the Taliban, as the name suggests were students of madrassahs. Tell me why they came out after the soviet invasion and subsequent events in Afghanistan and not before?
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Have you not read my previous posts? Most of them were veterns of Afghan-Soviet war. After they war they went back to studying or to their families. But when they say some of the fake leaders/warlords are fighting over the land, they decided to take over and reconstruct their country.

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Where were they during the independence struggle of Pakistan? Or even during 1971 war, or the rule of Najib in Afghanistan?
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You are saying like they are aliens and came from Mars.

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The received training, funding from CIA/ISI

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They didnt beg them for support, CIA had their own interests, and mujahideen were concerned with defending an Islamic country.

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and moral and religious support and influence from Saudi Salafis.
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Sorry but first fatwa of Jihad against the Russians was given by Mufti Mahmood, governer of N.W.F.P. Muslims from all over the World came to help them, no matter what their beliefs were.

And you are talking like people from Saudis were some filty creatures? Just shows how brain-washed you are.

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That has changed the face of the madrassah in Pakistan forever.
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Dream on.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

You have missed your 9 o clock Fox News.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

Now let see what did Muhammed Ali Jinnah had to say about the Ulemas.

Munshi Abdur Rahman has written a book on him called Kardar Qaid e Azam, in there he writes that ones some asked him that there are so many scholars on his side, so on that Muhammed Ali Jinnah answered:

“There is a very great scholar with Muslim League. If his knowldge, taqwa, honor is put on one side of the scale and on the ohter side all the scholars, his scale would out-weight theirs. He is AllamaH Ashraf Ali Thanvi. His support of the Muslim League is enough. I dont care if anyone else supports us or appose us.” )page 471, also page 92 of Taimeer e Pakistan.

Muhammed Ali Jinnah also personally wrote a letter to Hakeem ul Ummah Ashraf Ali Thanvi and thanked him for this support for Muslim League.

When Pakistan was formed and on 14th of August, when it came time to raise the Pakistani flag for the first time in Karachi and Dhaka, Muhammed Ali chose 2 great scholars. He chose Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani for Karachi and Allamah Zaffar Ahmed Usmani for Dhaka.

When Muhammed ALi Jinnah took oath as the first Governer General of Pakistan, Allamah Shabbir Ahmed took oath from him.

When Muhammed Ali Jinnah was asked, what is his religion, he said I am on the deen of Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (Sunni).

In his last will Muhammed Ali Jinnah wrote that my funeral be read by Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Deobandi (and he read his funeral prayers).

Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan was an old leader of Muslim League and close to Muhammed Ali Jinnah, he wrote in in Jang Newspaper on August 21, 1958 that:

“Muhammed Ali Jinnah would regularly read Quran. He read the book of Allamah Shibli Naumani called “Al-Farooq” (on the life of Hazrat Umer Farooq r.a.) and he ordered Shareef u Deen Peerzada (still alive) to translate that book in English and told him that I want to run Pakistan like Hazrat Umer r.a. did”.

If anyone is interested in that book.

Hopefully enough dose for Mullah bashers.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

perhaps khanabax it would help people if you tell what happened to most of the ulemas of these very madrassas at the hands of brits. At the time of iqbal that is. and what iqbal's take was on it.
mullah is become like a synonym for a hypocrite, its expected when non muslims do the stereotyping quite another when fellow muslims indulge in it.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

HAHAHAHAHAHA

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

[QUOTE]
perhaps khanabax it would help people if you tell what happened to most of the ulemas of these very madrassas at the hands of brits. At the time of iqbal that is.
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What do you mean, I didnt get your question?

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mullah is become like a synonym for a hypocrite, its expected when non muslims do the stereotyping quite another when fellow muslims indulge in it.
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You see these Mullah bashers are so bai-ghairat people, when they have a son, they call Mullah to give azaan in his ears, when its time to teach them Quran, they send their children to same Mullah, when they get married, they call same Mullah to read their Nikah, and when they die, they call this so called hypocrate Mulalh to read fineral. Why cant they find people educated from Secular institutions to read this nikahs and funderls. This just hows how these people are hypocrates and bai-ghairat and not the Mullahs.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

i mean most of the people here are arguing that iqbal was fond of madrassas at his time and those madrassas were quite different to current ones. (i am not denying the existence of few bad apples now a day but that is like saying some hostels have sinners living in them so lets shun the entire boarding system.) it would be interesting to know what happened to madrassas graduates at the time of iqbal at the hands of brits. perhaps that would then lead to the question that whether the western world has the problem with flaws in current madrassa system or the very idea of religious educational institutes. people graduating from madrassa would want a world where they can apply the knowledge that they have picked up and the idea of islamic state is very monsterous to non muslim western nations but when muslims fall for the propoganda sir peetnay ko dil chahta hai :smack:

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

I dont know how in few decades they have become different. If these people are referring to arm struggle and oppose madrassahs becuase they think they are involded in that, then Iqbal was against the the Mullahs who didnt believe in arm struggle/jihad. He was fond of mujahid Ulemas.

Well when British came to India, they murdered Ulemas and according to British sources, they murdered 17000 scholars, and closed down all the madrassas. Infact anyone with a beard, they would kill him. The scholars which survived they opened up new madrassas and from these madrassas were many of the people who fought for the independence such as Maualana Muhmmaed Ali Johar, Maulana Shaukat Ali, Maulana Ubaid ullah Sindi, Maualan Abul Kalam Azad, Shaikh Mahmood ul Hassan, Shaikh Hussain Ahmed Madani, Hazrat Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi. Most of these scholars spent many years in the jails of British. Shaikh Mahmood ul Hassan and Hussain Ahmed Madani were sent to Kala Paani and Malta.

Their problem is not just madrassas but anyone who speaks against their injustice. They were never for these madrassas and I have mentioned earlier how they closed all the madrassas when they came to India first. They fear these Mullah not the graduates of secular institutes.

Like lets take Taliban, it is said thet Ulemas cant run the government, but Taliban proved the world wrong.

A country's religion..
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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

yes thats the problem 50, 60 , 70 years have passed, Man is preparing to invade universe and madrassas have not changed a bit.

They need to change and adjust according to present days demands, Madrassas was use to be most important factor of Islamic Society, Mullah use to be a title of respect and knowledge, but why it is not the same today,
why there is a diference between Mujahid key Azaan and Mullah key Azaan?

why Mulla is said to be "andesha fitna o fasad" ?

these why(s) need to be answered

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

^i agree with you hanibal but i have a question due to hypocrites should one leave the concept of islam? most of muslims today lack the vigour with which our ancestors practised islam but to fix this should we reinvent the religion or mend our ways?this includes me, a girl with a niqaab, a guy with a beard and a guy without it. should we ridicule the madrassa system or should we work to get rid of the flaws. many influenced muslims have problems with main ideology of islam every little basic thing has to be dragged on and on. we all like the concept of change but hate the idea of working to bring it about.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

exactly and our pak studies and mashrati uloom donot go in detail to these atrocities. we still have our education board which breeds clerk mentality, originality or change is shunned.

precisely.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

No dear sister, iam not against madrassa system, it is the one the best educational system but it have lost the touch, for example there were days when graduates of these very madrassas where Mathematicians, Chemists, Astrologers and Biolgists. they used to study logic from Quran and Hadees and apply it on other sciences. Those Madrassas were our heritage, now all the madrassas are limited to reciting of Quran, Memorizing of ahadees promoting your very own fiqah and thats all.. no sister this is not the madrassas this is not the spirit of Islam and i am against them

( as a matter of fact iam against so-called Enlighted Eduation System of Pakistan as well)

As we are talking from Dr. Iqbals prespective, he says Muslims supposed to be the Imam of Todays world, tell me sister how could a Imam can be so ignorant?

Raging Bull attacks spectators in Spain bull ring
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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

Khanbabax......Is it true that Pakistan has some of the most good madrssas there?......one of my husband's friend has gone to PaK from the UK to study there in a madrassa for Islamic studies.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

[QUOTE]
yes thats the problem 50, 60 , 70 years have passed, Man is preparing to invade universe and madrassas have not changed a bit.
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Why are you blaming madrassas for it, did they stop you from going to the mood or mars? Blame secular institutions.

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They need to change and adjust according to present days demands, Madrassas was use to be most important factor of Islamic Society, Mullah use to be a title of respect and knowledge, but why it is not the same today,
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They are still respected except the the people who are highly influenced by the West, they are just allergic to anyone with a beard.

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why Mulla is said to be "andesha fitna o fasad" ?
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By who, BCC? BUSH?

Who was responsible for breaking Pakistan? Was it mullahs or secular leaders?
Who are these corrupt leaders such as Bhutto and others. No Mullah has looted Pakistan.
Look at MQM. They are not Mullahs. What have they done to Karachi.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

Yes, they do have good madrassas especially in Karachi. Those are well known and even people from Arab world come to study there.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

[QUOTE]
hose Madrassas were our heritage, now all the madrassas are limited to reciting of Quran, Memorizing of ahadees promoting your very own fiqah and thats all.. no sister this is not the madrassas this is not the spirit of Islam and i am against them
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Everyone has their own field, nor did madrassah people stop anyone from going in other fields after they are done with studies. Just to give one example, Mufti Taqi Usmani, after he was done with his studies in madrassah, he got a degree in English and Law from secular institute and served as a judge on Supreme Court for few decades. So after someone is done from their Islamic studies, they can pursue other fields if they wish.
Also would you say the samething about someone who has just graduated from medical school, would you tell him to go register in a madrassah and now learn his religion? Most likely No. Because there are different fields and one individual cant master every single field.

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

You take every thing so negatively that u think very one other than u is the enemy!
it is not the case my brother, who are responsible for the syllabus of these madrassas, i dont think so any of the secular have done that, if so then y does these so called scholars of Islam accepted it?

Wake up brother, things have changed and these mullahs are still chasing their own tail. its a wakeup call, these so called Mullahs are not involved in corruption cause plenty of them haven't got the chance and place to be corrupt, otherwise everyone knows what is the leadership of MMA is upto and whom they are originally serving. I urge u to look out of the pot and see where the planet is now!

Tell me how long these mullahs with their limited knowledge of todays technology can survive, we have seen that in Afghanistan! Taliban Govt. collapsed just like that, and the only reason was they never had technology to fight back.

Look what mess they created in Islamabad becuase of their limited knowledge that loss of precious lives is irrecoverable and these Mullahs are causing it, changing the city in hell.. so whats the difference between them and MQM, later have build up their politics on dead bodies earlier is doing it now! i see no difference between that Altaf Hussian and this Khateeb of Lal Masjid.

U call it a respect, i call it sympathy, people of Pakistan have sympathy for these mullahs, thats why they gave them their leftovers, Sadqa and Khairat and pay often just to keep their ends meet! U call it respect, i call it hell on earth.

Brother, i don't know what keeps u away from the modern knowledge and technology, what prohibts you and mullahs to not to have latest information about happening, what stops you from research, btw all of these were the virutes of Madrassas in good old times, now these madrassas are left but the machinery is gone and so does the hope of Nishat-e-Sania.

And just for your info, Illama Iqbal himself called Mullah Andehsa-e-Fitna.o.fasad, i thought u r well informed and knowledgeable person but iam really sorry to see ur stubborn behaviour.

Just for your ref. the complete shair is:

Na falsafi say , na Mulla say gharz mujh ko
eak dil key mout dosra andesha-e-fitna.o.fasad.
(bal-e-jebriel if iam not mistaken)
if u want more i can give lot more from Iqbal,

Infact Illama was one of them who wanted to reform the madrassas, he was in favor of them but not in this condition.. but i dont't see u r getting the point, i guess u will come attacking again assuming that iam just another enemy of Islam and madrassas.

May Allah have his mercy on me and all of us!

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

Look what u are talking about!

U r limiting Islam in a teapot by saying madrssas have their own way. I feel ashamed and pitty for having such a brother!

Islam is not to recite and memorize Quran, it is Implentation of Islamic System on this world, thats the reason for creation of Man-Kind, Allah Subah.o.Tala says that Man is my Khalifa on earth, means he will implement the System, and u r making it just a field, i know we are backward nation and now i exactly know y.

The book about which has made the ignorant Arabs of Arabian dessert leaders of the world is not just another subject.! infact every other subject is extracted from this very book.

Mufti Taqi Usmani, is one name, and i can give you one hudred names of Shairah Competent Fin. Analyst who are not Muslim. and he is only given the seat in Board of Director in Mezzan bank the owners ( arab companies owe most of the share and ours is one of them) to give a touch of Islamic Banking... no other reason is there.

Only a peson with limited vision can have this thought! Dr. Israar and Dr. Zakir Naik are prime examples, they are MBBS doctor and look, even so-called scholars of Islam doesn't stand a chance against them!

In good old days, the Masjid of the area use to be the primary school for the kids, where they thought, Science of Quran, Quran, hadees and Sciences of Hadees, normally by age of 10 or 12 they gradute from those mosques and use to go for higher education and research.

i have no more to say... i think and number of time i have been told that iam banging my head with walls of ego, only thing i can get is get banned from this board as well...

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Re: Dr. Iqbal on Madrassas

And once again we have present day reality to completely turn khanbabas's argument on its head.

Which madrassah would have acted like the Lal masjid madrassah 30 or more years ago?

As for Taliban, majority of their members weren't even born during the Afghan jihad and in fact were born in refugee camps in Pakistan.