Dear frnd ... He never mentioned names of umar and abu bakar ... he said uthatay nahi jo nabi ka jinaza , kahan mar gaey baitian denay walay .... now if umar and abu bakar didnt attend the jinaza than amir liaqt got a point and if they did !!! then y wud u worry abt it ?
this is typical 12er rhetoric , most sahaba did not attend the janaza.It was a private ceremony mostly of banu hashim sahaba and few other ansar.
Brother** Das Reich** Sorry to correct you - It was the** ghusl **(washing of the body) that "was a private ceremony mostly of banu hashim sahaba and few other ansar".
The Janaza prayers were performed by nearly all the residents of Madinah. Nobody lead the Janaza prayers as there wasn't much room so few people at prayed individually. This carried on till nearly all the present performed the prayers.
Wasn't it Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) suggestion where the Prophet (saw) was buried?
[QUOTE]
**Preparing the Body for Burial*
Washing the Prophet's body before burial was performed by his next of kin, by Ali ibn Abu Talib, alAbbas ibn Abd al Muttalib and his two sons, al Fadl and Qutham, as well as by Usamah ibn Zayd. Usamah ibn Zayd and Shuqran, the Prophet's client, poured the water whileAli washed the body, covered as it was by Muhammad's nightgown. It was decided that the Prophet's body should not, under any circumstance whatever, be fully exposed. As they performed their washing, contrary to what is usual in such cases, the body emitted beautiful smells, so that `Ali said continually: "By God, what would I give for you! How sweet you are and how wholesome you are, both alive and dead!" Some western Orientalists sought to explain this fair scent emitted from the body of the Prophet by calling it the result of the perfume which he used so lavishly, remembering that he once declared it one of the good things he truly loved in this world. When the washing was completed, the Prophet's body was wrapped in three shrouds: two made in Suhar and the third in Hibarah in Yaman. When this operation was completed, the body was left where it was and the doors were flung open for the Muslims to enter from the mosque, to take a last look at their Prophet, and to pray for him. [The reader may be thrown off by this usage of "pray upon" instead of the commonplace "pray for." In the Muslim practice nobody "prays for" the Prophet in the sense that one prays for a departed loved one. Prayer upon the Prophet is much more formal and is commanded by the Qur'an (33:56). It is a main part of Muslim worship to use the Qur'anic "pray upon" in invoking God's blessing upon His Prophet. -Tr.] Undoubtedly, they emerged deeply moved and conscious of their terrible bereavement.
The Funeral Prayer
The room was practically full when Abu Bakr and `Umar entered the room and joined the Muslims in a funerary prayer for the Prophet. The prayer was performed without a leader. When it was over, Abu Bakr began to pray aloud, saying: "Peace, mercy, and blessings of God be upon you, O Prophet of God. We witness that the Prophet of God and His apostle conveyed the message entrusted to him by his Lord and that he exerted himself and fought in His cause until God gave victory to His religion. We equally witness that the Prophet of God and His apostle fully performed his promise and that he commanded us to worship none but God alone who has no associates." At the end, of every phrase, the Muslims responded together, "Amen, Amen." When this prayer was complete, the men left and the women and children took turns taking a last look at the Prophet. One and all, every man, woman and child, emerged from that room torn with sorrow and crushed by a sense of bereavement for the loss of the Prophet of God, the Seal of His apostles. They were full of apprehension that some calamity might befall the religion of God in the future.*
[/QUOTE]
this is typical 12er rhetoric , most sahaba did not attend the janaza.It was a private ceremony mostly of banu hashim sahaba and few other ansar.
i dunt know whats the problem with u ... You think we r against all the sahabas .. We as 12ers. Off course We love sahaba's who were sincere to ALLAH and his Prophet s.a.w and Prophet s.a.w family and we have no problem praising them ! ....
This doesnt mean that they r same level as ahley bait a.s or neither does it mean that by praising sahaba u r doing any damage to Ahelaybiat ...
I am not regular on this forum anymore but since the very begining u have this habbit of changing every topic to a topic that shld have a title .... 12ers hate sahabas or something ....
And ur argument is not even rite ... we dunt consider ourselves at the level of sincere sahaba or anywhere close to them ... Y wud we have any problem praising sahaba beside we appritiate people praising them !
What I think by doing this in every topic all u wana do is ... just spread the world arnd that 12ers hate all sahaba's ... which isnt true, There r other false statements abt shia's 12ers and muslims in general ur thinkin shld be trashed in the same bin where other false statements like "shia kill their kids and put there blood in rice on 10th moharam" and certian others statements shld be trashed.
Re: Dr Amir Liaqat Cursing Sahabas
^ 12ers dont hate ALLsahaba but they ignore them generally and only use of sahaba or references to sahaba to discredit umar & abu bakr particularly.More than that they are of little benefit to most 12er ulema [except for a few of them] as 12er faith is based on obedience to infallible imams beyond which the sahaba/tabaeen are largely useless.
you have failed to realize that I dont hate 12ers blindly, they had some great scholars within their ranks but there are many parts of their faith I dont agree with at all.Some other things like ignoring sahaba in general ] are not a official part of 12er faith but its very obvious if you spend some time with them.
All these topics are about sahaba so the discussion is not off-topic.
Brother** Das Reich** Sorry to correct you - It was the** ghusl **(washing of the body) that "was a private ceremony mostly of banu hashim sahaba and few other ansar".
The Janaza prayers were performed by nearly all the residents of Madinah. Nobody lead the Janaza prayers as there wasn't much room so few people at prayed individually. This carried on till nearly all the present performed the prayers.
Wasn't it Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) suggestion where the Prophet (saw) was buried?
brother ibn sadique I see what you mean and I know there are many versions of what happened afterwards , and I conceede what u have written is the most commonly accepted version as narrated by ibn ishaq and ibn kathir but burial [as in actually descending into the grave] was done by banu hashim sahaba and ansari abu talha no other companions were involved.
Dear frnd ... He never mentioned names of umar and abu bakar ... he said uthatay nahi jo nabi ka jinaza , kahan mar gaey baitian denay walay .... now if umar and abu bakar didnt attend the jinaza than amir liaqt got a point and if they did !!! then y wud u worry abt it ?
Aqeel
I never mentioned names either; the above are included in betiyan dene waale; no point what so ever justify's use of such language & display of such hatred towards these sahaba!!
my point again:
These are the people to whom Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself promised fortunes in the Hereafter..
taking away from them the status that the Prophet pbuh himself had given them (meaning that the Prophet was wrong???) does not really depict the love that Dr Amir claims he has for Hazrat Muhammad pbuh.
The Prophet pbuh knew best who was sincere and who wasn't; who are we to believe otherwise.
Re: Dr Amir Liaqat Cursing Sahabas
^ Bhai jan 12ers dont believe that sahaba were on the same status as you do , nor do they believe in all the hadiths about them as you do…
if amir liaqat was really sincere he would not have so blindly followed the rhetoric of the 12ers …like i said his comments on abu sufyan are obviously not far from the truth but to put him in the same status as abu bakr & umar who were sabiqoon wal muhajireen shows a lack of understanding of sahaba in general.I suspect he is doing this to gain some political points within 12ers community although Allah knows best]
those who think that criticizing banu ummayyah or enemies of Ali & sons is only a 'shia" thing need to look at this
again not all banu ummayyah were bad as shaykh mentions some were men of grt distinction like aban b sa’id ]
Aqeel I never mentioned names either; the above are included in betiyan dene waale; no point what so ever justify's use of such language & display of such hatred towards these sahaba!!
my point again: These are the people to whom Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself promised fortunes in the Hereafter.. taking away from them the status that the Prophet pbuh himself had given them (meaning that the Prophet was wrong???) does not really depict the love that Dr Amir claims he has for Hazrat Muhammad pbuh.
The Prophet pbuh knew best who was sincere and who wasn't; who are we to believe otherwise.
Am not a big fan of aamir liaqat hussain either ! and when u talk abt promising fortunes in the heraafter to the sahabas u r mentioning .... then also provide a trust worthy source ...
Talking abt trust worthy source.....If i can find stuff like Imam Ali getting drunk in any part of his life then surely there were writers who wanted to bring status of Imam Ali down and if someone can try to bring status of Imam Ali down then its not hard to believe that historians added stuff like Prophet gave these sahabas good news of jananat in their lives. Rnt these the same people who called Daughter of Prophet s.a.w in so called court ?
I dunt know abt others but my belives r who ever showed their hatered against Ahleybait r in same boat … weather if it was abu sufyan or any caliph … i dunt have anything personal against them !
abt sahaba how abt u start praising shaba’s here and see how many 12ers wudnt apprititate it … however dunt expect appritiation for those who were munfiqs or mukasirs.
Re: Dr Amir Liaqat Cursing Sahabas
^ this is exactly the kind of attitude which leads us nowhere but its not ur fault alone , many people have worked for generations to malign the image of the shaykhain to such an extent that they have them at the same level as the enemies of the Prophet.
and plz aqeel dont try to impress me with how much "12ers love the good sahaba" BS , we are not talking about some of their rijal works with which i am familiar] but the popular perception of sahaba amongst 12ers
....what you hear in majalis every day , the source of education for the masses
... weather if it was abu sufyan or any caliph ..... i dunt have anything personal against them !
.
funny u claim to be a shia yet u have no personal grudge against enemies of Ali ...I certainly have a personal grudge against enemies of Ali as thats what sets apart shia of Ali from rest of muslims.
Re: Dr Amir Liaqat Cursing Sahabas
I never liked dr dangar amir liaqat anyway.
Do they know how ignorant and evil they look when they curse Sahaba[ra]? No wonder no one wants to convert as a shia muslim.
^we dont wanna get into shia-sunni bashing
Aqeel/Das Reich: I do understand that there exists a difference of belief between the 2 sects on sahabas...As Das Reich pointed out; Aqeel none of my sources would be trust worthy for you.
However, it shouldn't be hard for us to respect each other's beliefs..Dr Amir or anyone can hold onto his beliefs and not like the sahabas, but he should respect the belief of others...
funny u claim to be a shia yet u have no personal grudge against enemies of Ali ...I certainly have a personal grudge against enemies of Ali as thats what sets apart shia of Ali from rest of muslims.
I hate enemies of Ali coz they r eneimies of Ali or they were enimies or Ali !
thats not personal ..
Personal wud be like u have prblms with 12ers coz they r 12ers not because b/c what they believe or they dont !
^ this is exactly the kind of attitude which leads us nowhere but its not ur fault alone , many people have worked for generations to malign the image of the shaykhain to such an extent that they have them at the same level as the enemies of the Prophet.
and plz aqeel dont try to impress me with how much "12ers love the good sahaba" BS , we are not talking about some of their rijal works with which i am familiar] but the popular perception of sahaba amongst 12ers ....what you hear in majalis every day , the source of education for the masses
hey i dunt need to impress u ... and i dunt care what u think .... i just dunt want u to make up and tell people what 12ers belives r.
I dunt know abt others but my belives r who ever showed their hatered against Ahleybait r in same boat ... weather if it was abu sufyan or any caliph ..... i dunt have anything personal against them !
abt sahaba how abt u start praising shaba's here and see how many 12ers wudnt apprititate it ... however dunt expect appritiation for those who were munfiqs or mukasirs.
Sorry to interrupt you and for my poor English, but first off, I just want to ask u Mr. aqeel are you in position to defend your shia religion?
And
[quote]
I dunt know abt others but my belives r
[/quote]
who care about your believes? What is your status?
1. Mr., talk about Shia religion where it is clearly mentioned that " after prophet pbuh just 4 sahaba remain on Islam "
Mr., can you just define system of ahl e bayt?
Who are the ahl e bayt?
Hazrat Hassan and Hussain were not the only child’s of hazrat Ali, Um e Kalsoom were his daughter too, why she is not from ahl e bayt?
Hazrat bb Fatima was not the only daughter of bb khadija Zainab, Ruqaya, and um e Kalsoom were also the daughters of bb khadija,
one is in ahl e bayt and other 3 daughters are not why?
Hazrat Hassan was elder brother of Hazrat Hussain progeny of Hazrat Hussain are ahl e bayt and progeny of Hazrat Hassan are not?
What is this
is it religion?
Re: Dr Amir Liaqat Cursing Sahabas
^some very good points ahnaf. but lets not make this a shia sunni thread again.
I never like Dr liaquat becuz he looks soo fake...he got a shield on his face and you can tell he may not be the same person off the camera. And if he made some disrespectful remarks towards sahabas or infact any of Mohammad's (pbuh) wives , then he's gonna pay for it...Lanat ho aisi logon per....i have stopped listening to him long time ago. He did some good programs during ramadan and moharram.....but there is something fishy about him that I can't stand.
ASA, brothers and sisters first of all i want to point this out how can one call him self a Islamic Scholar when he does not even follow the biggest sunnat of Rasool SAWS keeping a beard, this is what is wrong with muslims of today we are trying to modranize Islam to accomadate the way we can follow it just like the christians did, no no no you can never change Islam, and this guy wants to nauzubillah curse the Sahabas RATA, dont worry Allah will deal with him all we can do is to pray for his hidayat and hidayat for all muslims Ameen.
Sorry to interrupt you and for my poor English, but first off, I just want to ask u Mr. aqeel are you in position to defend your shia religion? And
who care about your believes? What is your status? 1. Mr., talk about Shia religion where it is clearly mentioned that " after prophet pbuh just 4 sahaba remain on Islam "
Mr., can you just define system of ahl e bayt? Who are the ahl e bayt? Hazrat Hassan and Hussain were not the only child’s of hazrat Ali, Um e Kalsoom were his daughter too, why she is not from ahl e bayt?
Hazrat bb Fatima was not the only daughter of bb khadija Zainab, Ruqaya, and um e Kalsoom were also the daughters of bb khadija, one is in ahl e bayt and other 3 daughters are not why?
Hazrat Hassan was elder brother of Hazrat Hussain progeny of Hazrat Hussain are ahl e bayt and progeny of Hazrat Hassan are not?
What is this is it religion?
Wooo, Bahi sahab app ghussa ker gaey...
First off all am not in any postion to defend anything,, am not a molana, i know more abt cricket than i do abt Islam. Yet
I can see that In MUbahila, When ALLAH swt wanted Prophets to take his men, his women and his childern
For Men Rasool s.a.w and Imam Ali were thier ... were rest not the men or rest not his ?
For Women .. Only one Woman ? Well so u dunt doubt Quran. That woman was Mother of Two wife of One and Daughter of 1 ... So yea
What ABout Childern ? Only Hassan and Hussain A.s
So if u talk abt Punjtan-e-Pak Above are the Five
Mohammed s.a.w, Ali a.s, Fatima a.s, Hassan a.s and Hussain a.s.
These are Ahleybait According to Ayyate-Inama
Abt Bibi Kalsoom s.a Daughter of Imam Ali, She isnt in Punjtan-e-Paak, Bibi Syeda Zainab is the same Case. These are Two Women that i respect Most After Bibi Fatima s.a Their Mother and Only Daughter of Prophet s.a.w. All these women are Syeda and that means Part of the Family.
So is Imam Hassan's Progeny, There are no Imams But they are Part of family.
I can see that In MUbahila, When ALLAH swt wanted Prophets to take his men, his women and his childern
Quote ayah e mubahila then we will discuss that ayah i hope i will solve many problems
[quote]
For Men Rasool s.a.w and Imam Ali were thier ... were rest not the men or rest not his ?
[/quote]
ok its mean that your other 9 imams are not from ahl e bayt because they were not their
[quote]
For Women .. Only one Woman ? Well so u dunt doubt Quran. That woman was Mother of Two wife of One and Daughter of 1 ... So yea
[/quote]
Do you know in which hijri year mubahila was done???
If you don’t know must ask it from any one.
Other three daughters of prophet were died (pbuh) before mubahila.
And what about um e kalsoom and zainab?? They both were daughters of bb fatima.
[quote]
What ABout Childern ? Only Hassan and Hussain A.s
[/quote]
both doughters of bb fatima pbuh were not taken birth at that time
[quote]
So if u talk abt Punjtan-e-Pak Above are the Five
Mohammed s.a.w, Ali a.s, Fatima a.s, Hassan a.s and Hussain a.s.
These are Ahleybait According to Ayyate-Inama
[/quote]
ok its mean anyone els is not from ahl e bayt.
[quote]
Abt Bibi Kalsoom s.a Daughter of Imam Ali, She isnt in Punjtan-e-Paak, Bibi Syeda Zainab is the same Case. These are Two Women that i respect Most After Bibi Fatima s.a Their Mother and Only Daughter of Prophet s.a.w. All these women are Syeda and that means Part of the Family.
[/quote]
what will you say if I prove it from your shia books that there were 4 daughters of prophet pbuh
[quote]
So is Imam Hassan's Progeny, There are no Imams But they are Part of family.
[/quote]
Ok its mean imam hassan’s progeny are ahle bayt?
I don’t want to violate rules of this forum for this discussion I invite you to .
sunniboard - com
this forum is for shia sunni debate I think their we can openly discuss it
Please join me
thanks