Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

You are right. In Pakistan people make decisions on personal biases without standard and jump to conclusions without background knowledge. Let see why Afridi went for OBL and why Afridi was tried in FATA.

Afridi turned against Taliban (and AQ) for personal revenge. He used to treat wounded Taliban leaders until 2008. No doubt he sued to charge hefty fees from them, but then he was doing something illegal and if caught could have been in prison. Anyhow, if he was only after money then he would have become informer on them too, but he did not.

[Actually, one can say that all who were/are colluding with Taliban and AQ by treating them, donating money to them, sympathising with them, or assisting them are traitors, as Pakistan is fighting Taliban and AQ. Anyhow if we start hunting such traitors then we would find millions in Pakistan]

Here is Afridi background from ‘Pakistan Observer’ and why he did what he did.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

I shall use another analogy here:

Let's say your brother is serial killer/rapist and he is on the loose. He will continue to rape and kill others unless he is apprehended. The police want to capture him but your mother refuses to do all in her power to bring her son to justice because he is her son.

If you (the brother/sister) tip the police in order to have your killer sibling captured - are you being disloyal to your mother who has protected her criminal son or are you looking to serve the good of the larger society?

Personally, I would hand my sibling over to the police myself - because while I adore my mother and would want to do all that is in my power to protect her pride and dignity, more important to me is protecting the lives of innocents.

Should the consequence for doing the right thing be losing my mother's love? I would hope not - but that is for her to decide - just as it is for Pakistan to decide whether protecting it's pride is more important.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

^^^ Brother, you are right with one exception. OBL was not Pakistani sibling or Pakistan was mother of OBL. OBL was not only terrorist, but he was abusing Pakistan too by entering and living in Pakistan illegally. He was also cause of death for many Pakistan innocent lives. Pakistan was looking for him to bring him to justice. All who were helping OBL and facilitating him were traitors to Pakistan.

Actually, all who were/are helping Taliban and AQ are traitors to Pakistan, as these two organisations are at war with Pakistan (and Pakistan is at war with them). They are killing innocent Pakistanis regularly.

So, to get OBL arrested cannot make one traitor, rather Pakistan should appreciate such person who got enemy of Pakistan reach his end.

I would have been happier and satisfied if Shakeel Afridi would have got sentence due to his earlier helping and treating Taliban leaders (as that was treacherous towards Pakistan). In present situation, I am not happy about his sentence because he found whereabouts of a person who was harming Pakistan (OBL) and reported that to Americans who got rid of that person (OBL).

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Sehrysh, the thing different between your analogy and what happened is thus; the boy is a rapist while the mother is wrong for protecting him she is NOT a criminal or a rapist herself. The key difference is that OBL and US's gov and CIA are as worse as each other. Both, esp the latter have been responsible for death on a massive scale.

In your analogy a person would hand the rapist in to the police as he WOULD be serving the people. In this case this is not what is happening at all. Handing OBL to America means Dr. Afridi is not serving his Pakistani society at all either way. If he hands him in (which he did) Pakistanis are still being slaughtered in bomb attacks and drones. If he hadn't handed him we would have still been killed in bombs and drones.

My point is since nothing would have changed regardless of him handing over OBL, then why did he not go to his own gov instead of choosing one killers' side over another? Both are killers esp America recently who has been involved in killing hundreds of innocent Pakistanis! That is even more traitorous if anything!

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Aap mujhay baaji keh saktein hai.

And it is just an analogy - one to encourage introspection. It's not perfect, but serves its purpose.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Brother, can you please tell us, how did he betray Pakistan?

1: Is it by making sure ‘OBL’ whose organisation (AQ) and associates (Taliban) killed many Pakistanis get what he deserved?

Or

2: Is it because he found OBL but did not reported that to Pakistani officials thus depriving some Pakistanis of Rushwat (Haram-ke-Kamai) they would have got from OBL to get him a safe escape?

So, which betrayal you are talking about?

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Chalyain galtee ho gaee ... malumaat kee kami thee. Ab ayesee gustakhi nahi ho gee dear sister. :)

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

So answer this for me: do you think Pakistan/ISI could have captured OBL? And if not, why not? If so, then why didn't they?

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

I think ISI knew exactly where OBL was. There is no question about that in my eyes.

However my answer to you will be different to a lot of people because my beliefs are different to a lot of people.

I consider the TTP and the Afghani Taliban two different entities. The latter of whom has repeatedly distanced itself from TTP and the former of whom according to a lot of people and alleged proof is financed by India and has wreaked havoc in Pakistan. There is then also a question of what happens to Afghanistan after the US leaves, for Pakistan to be safe rather than have the current donkeys of India and US backed NA Pakistan has to have a Pakistani friendly government in Afghanistan i.e. the Taliban. Therefore keeping OBL alive in which case for the ISI would have been crucial in any case.

Lets not forget the US and the Western countries in the recent times have also been raising a lot of possibilities of negotiations with the Taliban because that serves their national interests. I believe and always will do that ISI serves our interest and if keeping OBL alive to protect Pakistan's national interests in the future and consequently the lives of future Pakistanis as a result then I am all for trusting them in whatever they do. As Ehsan Uncle said, while OBL getting caught is probably in Pakistan's interest, the role this Dr and the way he has played it can be considered treason

I think it comes down to a matter of trust and principles. Do I trust the ISI? Yes. Did Dr. Afrid? No.

I think the main question here is that if I or you were in his position and did not trust the ISI or our agencies would I still run off to the USA and CIA (the biggest killers in recent history and responsible for the murders of thousands of Pakistanis). He chose to do that, by the word of law that is treason.

Both of us know law punishes people for their wrong deeds. The sentence of the punishment depends on the nature and severity of the crime. For all intents and purposes if law word for word here is applied whatever his motivations were he did commit treason, whether he did so with a pure heart aimed at helping Pakistanis or due to greed i.e. award money or having a nice cushty life in US, we'll never know.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

As expected, it did not go well with the US:

[QUOTE]

US officials and lawmakers said Afridi deserved only praise, not a 33-year jail sentence.

Two senior US senators called the ruling “shocking and outrageous” and urged Islamabad to pardon and release the doctor immediately.
[/QUOTE]

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Well said, couldn't have said it better.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

The real question is not whether Dr. Afridi deserves punishment or not. To me it is clear that he is guilty at the very least of cheating his patients with a fake vaccination programme, plus the fact that he worked with a foreign intelligence agency - whatever the motivation.

The real questions should be:

(1) If this guy can be convicted literally overnight (after the Chicago insult), then why isn't FCR used against jihadi terrorists like Malik Ishaq and the Lal Masjid mullah or any number of people who are set free due to "lack of evidence". Every jihadi has some connection to FATA, so they can easily be locked up for good. Clearly the reason they are free is because our agencies want them to be.

(2) How come not one person has even been arrested for helping OBL hide inside Pakistan for several years? The world would have been more quiet abour Dr. Afridi had we punished people for the bigger crime of hosting the world's biggest terrorist.

This conviction was done in anger to send a message after our establishment got slapped by Obama.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Sorry you are wrong. It was the Pakistan Army which sold Pakistan to the Americans in 2001. The leaders of our greatest institution got us into the mess.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Other than Osama bin laden all alqaeda people were captured by Pakistan and handed over to the Americans. These people are with the Americans for the past ten years and their prosecution hasent properly started yet (punishment is something of an illusion). The way Americans went about in killing Osama bin laden has created a lot of bad blood.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

here we go…

Clinton condemns Pakistan for jailing doctor who helped CIA | DAWN.COM

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Totally right. Pakistanis have a twisted logic but sadly those who were keeping Bin Laden safe have far too much power to be tried. in fact one could start with people like Kayani, Pasha and those other Crore Commanders.

I think there is some discrimination against the doctor too as he is an Afridi most likely with roots from KP/FATA, so people have less of an inclination to like him.

I personally consider Dr Afridi a hero as he provided a very big nail to the mess the militants have created with the backing of the ISI. Dr Afridi should be awarded for delfating that big undeserved ego the ISI has. His actions have shown just how corrupt they are and how they will destroy Pakistan to get their agenda.

It is about time we disbanded the ISI as they do nothing for Pakistan. Thye were caught with their pants down with the OBL in Abbottabad saga. Could he really travel from Aafghanistan to Abbottabad, through Punjab even without some ones help? Only the ISI could be that stupid to think they would get away with it.

Looks like Pakistan will get a lot of bad press from this story. Deserved too! Pakistan has never known how to make itself look good in the media. By jailing this doctor it justifies extremism also within Pakistan.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

How can you say it was not in the best interests of Pakistan? OBL and his ilk are routinely killing people globally including Pakistan. He was an enemy of Pakistan. Only the ISI and their narrow interests believe he was a friend. KHyber PAakhtunkhwa will take decades to recover from this militancy. We can onyl thank the ISI for it.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

The government of the day is very besharam indeed. It is about time they stood up and cut the budget of the Army and ISI. They government should have gone after the ISI/Army leadership for this blunder. The Army/ISI must have known OBL was there. They know who passes wind in Abbottabad.

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Senate panel cuts Pakistan aid after country sentenced doctor who helped CIA | Fox News

**A Senate committee outraged over Pakistan imprisoning a doctor who led the U.S. to Usama bin Laden engaged Thursday in some dollar diplomacy by voting to cut aid to the country by $33 million.
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**The amount equals $1 million for every year of Dr. Shakil Afridi’s 33-year-long sentence for high treason.
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The doctor ran a vaccination program for the CIA to collect DNA and verify bin Laden’s presence at the compound in Abbottabad where U.S. commandos found and killed the Al Qaeda leader in May 2011.

**“All of us are outraged at the imprisonment and sentence of some 33 years, virtually a death sentence to the doctor," said Arizona Sen. John McCain, the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee. “It frankly outraged all of us.”
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**The punitive move came on top of deep reductions the Appropriations Committee already had made to President Obama’s budget request for Pakistan, a reflection of the growing congressional anger over its cooperation in combating terrorism. The overall foreign aid budget for next year had slashed more than half of the proposed assistance and threatened further reductions if Islamabad failed to open overland supply routes to U.S.-led NATO forces in Afghanistan.
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**Pushing aside any diplomatic talk, Republicans and Democrats criticized Pakistan a day after the conviction in Pakistan of Dr. Afridi.
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The United States has called for Afridi’s release, arguing that he was acting in the interest of the U.S. and Pakistan.

**“We need Pakistan, Pakistan needs us, but we don’t need Pakistan double-dealing and not seeing the justice in bringing Usama bin Laden to an end,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who pushed for the additional cut in aid.
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**He called Pakistan “a schizophrenic ally,” helping the United States at one turn, but then aiding the Haqqani network which has claimed responsibility for several attacks on Americans. The group also has ties to al-Aida and the Taliban.
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**“It’s Alice in Wonderland at best,” said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt. “If this is cooperation, I’d hate like hell to see opposition.” **{lol this is exactly how I see this so called strategic friendship between the two allies :D}
One of the most forceful statements came from Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who also serves that the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. She pointed out that Pakistan has suffered at the hands of terrorists yet misconstrued what is treason in convicting Afridi. She also insisted that Afridi was not a spy.

“This conviction says to me that al-Aida is viewed by the court to be Pakistan,” said Feinstein, who said it made her rethink U.S. assistance.

The committee approved Graham’s amendment to cut the assistance by $33 million on a 30-0 vote.

In crafting the overall legislation, the committee reduced Obama’s request to aid Pakistan by 58 percent as resentment and doubts linger on Capitol Hill a year after bin Laden was killed deep inside Pakistan. Tensions between Washington and Islamabad have increased as Pakistan closed overland supply routes to Afghanistan after a U.S. attack on the Pakistani side of the border killed 24 Pakistani soldiers in November.

The United States and Pakistan failed to resolve the issue at the recent NATO summit in Chicago.

The congressional anger over the conviction and the supply routes extended to the Senate Armed Services Committee, which completed a $631.4 billion defense budget Thursday that restricts military assistance to Pakistan unless the supply routes are opened.

“This shows a common outrage,” Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., told reporters.

Members of the Senate Appropriations Committee also complained about mafia-style extortion by Pakistan in seeking truck fees in exchange for opening the supply lines. The cost had been $250 per truck prior to the attack. Pakistan is now demanding $5,000 per truck. The United States has countered at $500.

The bill would provide just under $1 billion in aid to Pakistan, including $184 million for State Department operations and $800 million for foreign assistance. Counterinsurgency money for Pakistan would be limited to $50 million.The legislation also conditions the counterinsurgency aid on Pakistan reopening the supply routes.

Islamabad won’t get any of the funds for counterinsurgency or money in prior legislation unless the secretary of state certifies to the Appropriations committees that “the government of Pakistan has reopened overland cargo routes available to support United States and North Atlantic Treaty Organization troops in Afghanistan, and funds appropriated under this heading can be used efficiently and effectively by the end of the fiscal year,” the legislation saysIf the secretary can’t certify to Congress, the money would be transferred to other accounts.

The overall legislation would fund the State Department, foreign operations and other programs at $52.1 billion, which is $2.6 billion less than what Obama requested for the 2013 fiscal year beginning Oct. 1 and $1.2 billion below current spending.

**The panel also cut money Obama proposed for Iraq by 77 percent, citing the deteriorating security situation there. **The bill would provide $1.1 billion for Iraq, including $582 million in foreign assistance but no money for the police development program.

The panel also cut $5 million from the $250 million in economic assistance for Egypt. Graham said it equaled the amount the U.S. spent to get non-government workers out earlier this year, including Sam LaHood, son of Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

Wading into the dispute over Palestinian refugees, the panel approved a version of an amendment from Sen. Mark Kirk, R-Ill., that would require the secretary of state to submit a report to Congress on the number of Palestine refugees who were displaced by the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict, the number of descendants and who receives assistance from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency.

The issue of whether to count refugees and their descendants is a divisive one. Some 5 million Palestine refugees receive assistance from the U.N. agency. A third of registered refugees live in camps in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

The State Department and Jordan opposed the original Kirk amendment and it was modified by Leahy.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Read more: Senate panel cuts Pakistan aid after country sentenced doctor who helped CIA | Fox News

Re: Dr Afridi gets 33 years imprisonment

Now that money is involved our leaders - democratid and military will be on their hands and knees to release the Doctor. They will once again make us look like we can do anything for money and release the Dr.

What would be better and more effective is for the Americans and Allies to ban members of the Pakistan Army and intelligence services from travelling to their countries. Also if they have any assets in those countries, they should freeze them.