Domestic Abuse

Where does the idea come from that a husband has a “right” to do this?

-pic on link-

Saudi presenter shows beaten face

A TV presenter who says she was beaten by her husband has allowed newspapers to show pictures of her swollen face to highlight domestic abuse.
Rania al-Baz said her husband, Mohammed al-Fallatta, beat her so hard earlier this week that he broke her nose and fractured her face in 13 places.

She is recovering in hospital. Police are looking for Mr Fallatta, an unemployed singer.

Reuters news agency says he faces charges of attempted murder.

Ms Baz’s mother told Saudi media that Mr Fallatta beat her daughter regularly.

This time, the mother is quoted as saying, he became infuriated when Ms Baz answered the telephone.

After beating her, Mr Fallatta took her to hospital and fled, her mother reportedly added.

“I want to use what happened to me to draw attention to the plight of women in Saudi Arabia,” Ms Baz said.

Every morning for the past six years, Ms Baz has been the smiling face of a family programme on Saudi television. She is well-known and loved in the kingdom.

The BBC’s correspondent Kim Ghattas says this is probably the first time ever that a case of domestic violence has received media coverage in Saudi Arabia.

It is a deeply conservative society, where Islamic Sharia law is strictly enforced and where honour and appearances are hugely important.

The presence of problems such as domestic violence, rape, paedophilia or Aids is often simply not acknowledged our correspondent adds.

‘Husband’s right’

“It is considered a husband’s rights that his wife should obey him,” Abeer Mishkhas, of the Saudi English-language newspaper Arab News, told BBC News Online.

“This can involve coercion or violence, and we know that the majority of cases of this kind go unreported and unnoticed.”

More and more Saudi women go to civil courts to request divorces on grounds of violence, Ms Mishkhas says.

But they are still not allowed to vote, drive, own a business or travel without permission from a male guardian.

SM, slow down, the fact is many in places like S.A. and Pakistan are using Islam to justify doing such things to women, like Bin Laden does to justify terror attacks, one shouldn't try to sweep that under the rug.

It varies , I assume many do it because it gives them a sense of power.

This post was not an attack on Islam but an attack on those who use Islam (falsely) to justify such actions. But expanding it to include why it happens in general is a good idea. .

Sounds like Islam takes away a persons personality, the way you describe it.

Islamically speaking the man is forbidden to touch the wife if he intends harm

A lot of the justification for beating wives comes from the verse below (4:34)

Surah An-Nisaa

  1. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).

http://www.isna.net/library/Quran/english.asp?lang=english&sura=4

Many scholars add in the parenthetical “lightly,” but I don’t think it is in the original Arabic.

(next), refuse to share their beds,

bhaee this is more of a punishment to men than anything. :D

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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Sounds like Islam takes away a persons personality, the way you describe it.
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Yeah you are right. Islam does take away a persons personality and even takes away the the common sense. Manipulated Islam, that is. Some people just follow blindly without even touching the Holy books and its supporting scriptures making their own laws.

I'm not attacking here but help me understand the Christian bomber in Okhlahoma was sending?

Or when Jewish administration allow assasinations on helpless victims?

I guess I should start lumping everyone in one basket rather melting pot and cast them out?

My point is, we too have our version of red necks with Alabama mentalities in the muslim society to. Doesn't mean all of us should be screwed royally.

ive never read this being practiced in the time of the prophet (saw)

Xara, I don't know if or how it was practiced. But this is a verse from the Quran. I think we need to discuss and address this issue in order to understand the reasons and conditions placed on the act. Otherwise these verses (like so many others) are abused and manipulated for mankind's convenience.

:salam:

Theres alot of misunderstanding regarding this verse.

You can read

A Commentary on The Qur’an 4:34

Explains it in detail.

Heres the part from the above link that deals with the 'beating' bit.

...."Beat them". If even separation fails to work, then it is suggested that men use beating. To this suggestion of the Holy Qur'an there have been two extreme reactions on the part of some Muslims. The first reaction is being apologetic or ashamed of the suggestion. The second is to use it as a justification for indulging in habitual wife battering. Needless to say that both these reactions are wrong. The Quran as we believe is the word of God and is thus every word in it is full of wisdom and love. To be apologetic about any part of the Quran is to lack both knowledge and faith. As for the second response, the suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behaviour that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and separation in beds and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage. Once it is clear that it is not working it is to be abandoned in favour of some other steps involving relatives of the husband and the wife mentioned in the next verse (4:35).** There is therefore, absolutely no license here for the type of regular and continual wife beating that goes on in some homes, where each time the husband is angry with his wife or with someone else he turns against her and beats her up. In most such cases, the husband has no moral superiority over the wife:** the only rule of Shariah that he cares about is this suggestion about beating. He also does not have the kind of control over his sexual passions needed to separate the wife in bed and often beats her the day before or the day after making love to her, an action specifically condemned by the Prophet. (4)

In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following further points should also be noted:

a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.

b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.

c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her.

d) Some fuqaha (Muslim jurists) are of the opinion that beating is permissible but not advisable. They base their view on the fact that the Prophet intensely disliked the action. But to say that beating is only permissible but never advisable is to say that there is never any good in it but the husband can nevertheless resort to it if he wants to; in other words he can beat up his wife without any good reason. This, however, is a view that cannot possibly be attributed to the Book of God. We can expect the Holy Qur'an to mention beating only if there was some wisdom in that mention. Now there are two possible points of wisdom in the mention. First, the beating done within the limits defined by the Qur'an may indeed bring the husband and wife to some kind of understanding. This is not because of the pain involved, which in any case cannot be too much if the guidance in the Quran and Hadith are to be observed. Rather, the husband and wife may come closer together after beating because of the emotions involved. The wife may experience the depth of hurt and disturbance her nushuz is causing and if there is any love left among them may decide for that reason to change her conduct. It seems from observations of human behaviour know that a show of male physical energy can sometimes bring a woman out of a prolonged bad mood (5) even though this energy may be seemingly directed against her in the form of angry words or a slap, provided in this manifestation of energy there is an undercurrent of love and desire for the woman and no real harm is done to the woman. In the situation with which the present verse is dealing, it is understood that in his heart the husband does have some love and desire for the wife. For, he has the option of divorcing her but he is not taking that option. Of course, there are husbands who neither love their wives nor divorce them, but keep them to punish them or exploit them. But we are not dealing with this situation here, since the assumption is that ill-will (nushuz) is from the wife's side. As for the argument that the Prophet intensely disliked beating, we can say that his intense dislike was for the type of beating done outside the limits set down by God. Second, the mention of beating may have the wisdom, ironically, to protect wives against what is called wife battering. The Quran does not always combat undesirable behavior by legal prohibition but by some other means. Experience also shows that legal prohibition of an action may not always be the most effective method to stop it. The Quran by requiring that before any beating there should be admonishing and separation of beds is providing a more effective measure against wife battering, since battering is the result of uncontrollable anger or aggression and this anger or aggression can be tamed during admonishing and separation of beds. No statistics exist, but I feel confident that if we research the behavior of men in different religious groups over a long enough period and a vast enough area of the globe, we will find that the incidents of cases of wife battering and other forms of cruelty to women have been less, both in terms of numbers and seriousness, among Muslims than in other groups.

"But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them". Here obey means that the wife accepts the husband's fair and justified demands or expectations. "Seek nothing against them" means that after the wife has abandoned nushuz and returned to the decent way one partner in marriage should behave towards the other, the husband should forgive and forget the past and start a new page.
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Re: Domestic Abuse

^^ this post mashallah is very well explaining the quranic ayat :k:

and id like to add that, owning a business is waht two of the Mothers of Believers did aside from Khadijah AS, one had a fur trade and one dealt in perfumes. Its a lack of religious knowledge that leave us ignorant and confused when we read isolated ayat and not bother with the rest of the scripture.

That’s called putting lipstick on pig to make it pretty. A beating is a beating is a beating. Did the wisdom not think that beating may actually have adverse reaction and may instigate more domestic problems? Did the wisdom also not think that this has great potential to be abused instead?

BTW, what does “The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating.” mean anyway? Beating is according to religion but wife doesn’t have to follow this religious decree? :confused: That sounds self-contradicting.

It's a lovely post. Marvellous. Bravo "M". I dont know if it was written by you but even if you've posted it bcz you fully understand it, Im impressed. It's such a magnificant combination of sensitivity and the practicality required to keep a healthy long term relationship. Men are animalistic by nature (and even some women for that matter) so basically, these guidelines in Quran do not "promote" beating of the wife but puts a bar on doing so by allowing it to do in only if everything else failed to avoid wife's necessary attitude. Which means that before taking any extreme steps (if he is angry at her being unfair to him over something), a man is instructed to seperate beds (barring his animalistic desires). If he did not do that, he has no right to lay a hand on his wife. If he does, he has violated the rights of his wife and laws of Quran. So he wife has every right to seek legal help for divorce or other proceedings that she thinks would be good or for the relationship.

No doubt women can be nasty. No doubt. There exist women who control their men like anything, who are stubborn and selfish. I think this guidelines offered in Quran are best described for those kinds of relationships whereawoman dominates her husbands. I have seen many arab women who are emotionally and physically much more powerful than the husband. But same time,it has been made clear that the husband cannot hit her in a way that would hurt her or leave bruises.

There simply cannot be such a sophisticated way of handling a delicate relationship of a marriage.

If men of the new age or those with no moral values or having selfish nature have distorted these guidelines of Quran for their own interest, the blame cannot and must not be shifted on Quran for such wise lines. The problem that we have is that majority of the muslims are illiterate. Lack of education gives rise to inability to understand lessons higher values that of taught by Quran. The uneducated, primitive, selfish natures are too quick to pick and distort the meanings of lessons taught in Quran to suit their own requirements. And such people being in majority have given such a wrong and ugly picture of the wholereligion of Islam not only to non-muslims but also to those muslims who are away or not too close to their religion.

The most important thing is to educate the muslim world.... making them adopt the higher values, ethics, be better humans.. instead of promoting and encouraging, domestic violence (or extremism or many other social misconducts of the muslims society) in the name of "Islam." This religion is for the betterment of the whole mankind... not for it's destruction or loss in any way.

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*Originally posted by M: *
Heres the part from the above link that deals with the 'beating' bit............
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You mean it looks as pretty as you look when you put on lipstick?? BTW, what color do younormally put on?

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A beating is a beating is a beating.
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Definitely, that’s why it’s not “advocated” in Quran. If muslim (or non muslim) men think it’s their birth right to abuse their wives, it’s not a fault of the Holy book.

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Did the wisdom not think that beating may actually have adverse reaction and may instigate more domestic problems?
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Yeah, that’s precisely why men are instructed to try everything else first to break the wife’s NASTY behaviour including thir sexual desires. Which is definitely not in practice. Not just (as M mentioned) sleep with her one night, satisfy his animal desire and start beating her up the next morning. A control is required before extreme step of beating (an extreme step that must not still hurt the wife). If a woman really has a good heart and loves her husband, him seperating her from his bed must be enough to change her bad attitude towards him. If it doesnt, then she sure needs something harsher than that. On the other hand, if a husband only follows the "beating bit of Quran to “take out his frustration over the wife” then he is not only violating his wife’s right but also Quran’s teachings. Hence, in this case, Quran allows the wife to voice for her rights.

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Did the wisdom also not think that this has great potential to be abused instead?
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If fools abuse the instructions, they are at fault, not “the wisdom”.

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BTW, what does “The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating.” mean anyway?
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For you, once again, "If a husband only follows the "beating bit of Quran to “take out his frustration over the wife” then he is not only violating his wife’s right but also Quran’s teachings. Hence, in this case, Quran allows the wife to voice for her rights.

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Beating is according to religion but wife doesn’t have to follow this religious decree? :confused:
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according to… not “advocated”. Yeah if misused by men, wife is not under compulsion to keep her head down and accept the abuse.

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That sounds self-contradicting
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Sure for dumb @$$e$ like you who want to find every fault with the book and not the misconducts of the men in the name of Islam, it would sound contradicting. A sincere effort to understand thelogic behind would never leave you “confused”. But if you’re intention is only to make the book an object of your jokes, you would forever stay confused.

Peace

A sincere effort to understand thelogic behind would never leave you "confused". But if you're intention is only to make the book an object of your jokes,

"Confused", "object of jokes"???

Daikh bay ch********, read the following again.

**
34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).
**