do you think it’s down to a person to do well (in life education etc) regardless of their background. or do you think despite all the efforts put in there will always be a difference in how well a middle class kid can do compared to his working class counterpart purely because of the difference (barriers of sorts) in luxuries such as books, tutoring, social circles, experiences, money..
Re: doing well in life.
The key to your child doing well in life is to introduce your child to the real world whilst holding his hand.
Re: doing well in life.
do you think it's down to a person to do well (in life education etc) regardless of their background. or do you think despite all the efforts put in there will always be a difference in how well a middle class kid can do compared to his working class counterpart purely because of the difference (barriers of sorts) in luxuries such as books, tutoring, social circles, experiences, money..
My favorite thread of yours today :@:
People from the "best" backgrounds can mess up majorly, and people from the "worst" backgrounds can succeed...its all about that drive and ambition...intelligence..and most of all, having direction..though in the case of a "bad" background...finding someone who can channel negative energy and help someone with potential succeed is more about luck.
(Ryan atwood hollla!)
aur waise bhi...what is "doing well in life"?
Not to derail the thread....but is there really only 1 definition of success?
Re: doing well in life.
Class has little to do with doing well, background on the other hand has a lot. People don't do well because they're working class, middle class or upper class, they do well, ultimately, because they graft, whether that earning some dollar or to have an amazing homelife. Background affects us to the extent of 1. if you have a sh1tty background you either a) turn your life around and away from that or b) carry on in the same cycle. and if you have a good background you either a) appreciate that and carry it on or extend it or you b) rebel. If we're limiting the definition of success to monetary sucess, then class has nothing to do with it. Alan Sugar. Duncan Banantyne. Gordon Ramsay.
Re: doing well in life.
yes but if you have money you have more opportunity therefore less effort is required for the same outcome, unless you are exceptionally gifted or lucky.
Re: doing well in life.
class has a LOT to do with success. i'm not the type to make excuses but seriously, the amount of times a lower class person will be turned down just because an upper class can get in due to their well off parents and their networking skills. or the money. and there are occasions where no matter how hard a lower class will try, he/she will reach a barrier where it will essentially come down to who knows who.
however, if you're required to work hard you tend to value it more. and if you have social status, you do have this duty to keep it. so it can work both ways.
Re: doing well in life.
class has a LOT to do with success. i'm not the type to make excuses but seriously, the amount of times a lower class person will be turned down just because an upper class can get in due to their well off parents and their networking skills. or the money. and there are occasions where no matter how hard a lower class will try, he/she will reach a barrier where it will essentially come down to who knows who.
however, if you're required to work hard you tend to value it more. and if you have social status, you do have this duty to keep it. so it can work both ways.
You know, a few years back, a professional came to one of our classes and gave a lecture/information session...it was regarding a specific field of work, but he said that an Ivy Leaguer can get into one of the best firms straight out of college....whereas a public-school graduate can work in a smaller, less known company and eventually find themselves into the same company as the Ivy League counterpart...so they both end up in teh same company, one just had to take a little longer and work harder.
and that's how I think it is...I know several real life examples like that too, everyone I know is a child of an immigrant, went to public schools/colleges, and have mA achieved academic/career success because they all worked hard to succeed...(of course if you're talking about severely poor, lower backgrounds...I can't speak for them)
Re: doing well in life.
you have to look at the whole picture
My favorite thread of yours today :@:
People from the "best" backgrounds can mess up majorly, and people from the "worst" backgrounds can succeed...its all about that drive and ambition...intelligence..and most of all, having direction..though in the case of a "bad" background...finding someone who can channel negative energy and help someone with potential succeed is more about luck.
(Ryan atwood hollla!)
aur waise bhi...what is "doing well in life"? Not to derail the thread....but is there really only 1 definition of success?
see there are literally 4 cases
bad background + no effort = no success
bad background + good effort = success
good background + no effort = luck
good background + good effort = super success
Re: doing well in life.
heh, this reminds me of a conversation yesterday. because i just had to apply for my position and my super was telling the fresh meat (is anyone watching that?) that he wasn't even going to look at the other applications. so the new girl was looking at him like she just smelled s*** and was all like 'but surely that's not right?'. and it was like, hello love, do you even know how you got your position?
Re: doing well in life.
Uhhh and howsthat even relevant to my post that you quoted it?
you have to look at the whole picture
see there are literally 4 cases
bad background + no effort = no success good background + good effort = success bad background + no effort = luck good background + good effort = super success
Re: doing well in life.
Oh definitely, if we're talking monetary success, if you have a nice inheritance, and you're smart, then you've got a major upper hand. But as a goal monetary success is attainable for all. Class isn't utterly restrictive. If it was there'd be a lot less self made millionaires.
I agree when it comes to certain careers, esp professions, law med acc, its all about who you know, it's all about being ivy league/redbrick and it's all about the inner circle. And more than that, reductively, it's all about being white middle class and male.
Re: doing well in life.
i think you missed out "good background + no effort = success" ie rich elite
if your born in a good background elite society you have to be a clown or joker to squander your families wealth and end up a homeless tramp.
whereas a homeless tramp has to combine enoromous effort and stunning good luck to achieve success
Re: doing well in life.
I remember learning in one of my classes that people usually stay within the socioeconomic class that they grew up in. It's not impossible to improve your standard of living through a positive attitude and hard work, but it's challenging when you have so many more obstacles to overcome compared to someone who belongs to a higher class. For example, kids in the lower class have different concerns/challenges than someone who belongs to the middle/upper class. They may be raised by a single parent working two jobs to make ends meet....so there's a lack of academic support at home, and sometimes (and I've seen this as I'm dealing with it now with one of my students)...the parent can't even comprehend simple skills because they're not that educated themselves. Sometimes they may have to miss school to take care of younger siblings, a lack of medical care/nutrition ...many of the basics in general....are a hindrance. I'm giving examples pertaining to education that I've learned about...and to an extent observed. Again, not saying that it's impossible....but when there is a lack of several basic things...you definitely have your work cut out for you.
Re: doing well in life.
you cannot mention half the story just to make your post/point
Uhhh and howsthat even relevant to my post that you quoted it?
Re: doing well in life.
despite all the efforts put in there will always be a difference in how well a middle class kid can do compared to his working class counterpart purely because of the difference (barriers of sorts) in luxuries such as books, tutoring, social circles, experiences, money..
That......... exceptions might be there.........but moving out from one to the other is quite a difficult thing and a lot of hurdles have been like...built into the system and they do prevent people from lower classes.
Re: doing well in life.
I think the person dictates their position in life...if you're strong enough...you can break down barriers.
Its not easy but its not impossible to do.