I have a question. I just read that in saudi, if a muslim kills christian, he gets less punishment than what he would get for killing muslim and if he kills hindu, even less punishment.
is it true? what is islaic law?
daymmnnn...that's a sweet deal...jokes ya'll
anyway...i alwayz thought that murdering anyone regardless of faith was wrong...cuz it's not like ure doing jihad, and it probably is personal
"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous
Where did u read that?
The punishment is the same across the board. The intensity of the punishment differs based on the intent. As far as maliciously intended murder is concerned, for that, whether a muslim kills a muslim, or a muslim kills a non muslim, the punishment is the same.
And to elaborate on that further, if a non muslim kills a non muslim, the same applies to him/her as well. That shows u that the law is not limited to people following Islam only. It covers the whole society.
There are multitude of Saudi Arabian Laws that are different for Muslims and Non Muslims; e.g., a non-Muslim cannot preach his religion in Saudi Arabia, while a Muslim can. Not only religious differentiation, but some laws there are gender specific as well, e.g., the Children of a Saudi Woman married to a Non-Saudi will not be entitled to Saudi Citizenship, but for children of Male Saudi married to a foreigner will be. All the Judges in Saudi Arabia come from one small remote village in Taif (Northwest) and they have their own interpretation of the Islamic Laws. These judges do not allow any other judge to become part of the judicial system, and they particularly “Hate” Judges who come from Mecca.
And we all know about the Driving Laws.
NYahamadi,
Your info about the Non Muslims preaching is correct but you forget to mention in public. Did you know Muslims them selves cannot do tabhlegue in Saudi Arabia? And where did you get the info about the Judges , if you don’t like Saudis just say so but don’t make up stories and believe what you here.
TAZZ, are you saying that non-Muslims can preach in ‘private’? My info about the judges comes after reading 10s of books on legal matters. Where did you read that I hate Saudis? If you have a comprehension problem, get some help. I can also suggest to you to find out where (what school of thought)the Judges in Saudi Arabia come from. And let us all know what you find.
What 10 books did you read i need to know where are you getting your info from. I lived there for 20 years and you can learn a lot form living in the culture.
TAZZ..10s of books, not 10 (but dozens). I also lived there, but that does not tell you jack about Saudi Arabia. How many Saudi Weddings did you attend in 20 years living there? Can you name 3 Saudi Dishes? Saudis are the most insular of people, and generally speaking, they don’t mix with foreigners working and living there.
[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
There are multitude of Saudi Arabian Laws that are different for Muslims and Non Muslims.
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But thats simply because the whole country is run on Islamic Shariat laws. Whether or not we agree with their implementation, or the method of their implementation is a different story. But the system is centered around Islam, so naturally anything going against Islam will not be allowed there, much like any other country and any other government.
As for the death penalty, the punishment is the same, whether muslim-muslim, or muslim-nonmuslim.
So you cannot name 10 books out of 10s, Yes i can give you all the info you want and some more. I guess you are the one who did not mingle with the saudi population. I dont want to start an argument here just post some facts not theories
But thats simply because the whole country is run on Islamic Shariat laws. Whether or not we agree with their implementation, or the method of their implementation is a different story.
So if the system is based on Islamic Shariat law it discriminates aganist non-muslims and women..based on implementation whatever that means and nobody has right to question it or critisize the inequality and unfairness practiced openly..
TAZZ, for simple minds such as yours, books won’t do. I asked you to name 3 dishes, and you are going around in circles? I mingled with the bureaucrats at their houses, the way they treat their servants (mostly poor Asians, from Philippines, to Bangladesh, to Pakistan) tells you a lot about the essence of their Islamic (so called) laws. Now let’s hear how many local weddings did you attend, did you make any Saudi Friends with whom you are still in contact? My cousin attended Petromen Uni for 5 years and he barely speaks a word of Arabic. Don’t jack up your knowledge about the snake pit, which is not open to foreigners. But things might change there some day.
If you are interested in reading about Saudi Laws, pick up Foxxman, and read to your heart’s content. He is the foremost authority on Shariaa, as practiced in Saudi Arabia.
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
So if the system is based on Islamic Shariat law it discriminates aganist non-muslims and women
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If the system is based on Islamic Law, it means that anyone who goes against the law will be taken to task, whether muslim, non muslim, woman or man.
A law is a law, and if u dont follow it, you will be punished for it. Is that a hard concept to grasp?
NYA since you wont leave this thing of my knowledge about Saudi Arabia, Let me tell you about my favorite dishes Kabsa, Mutabakah, Foouel, Shawarma, kibbi etc…. As far as the weddings are concerned well I don’t know, I can’t remember exactly may be khamsakamseen (55). As far as friends may be by now you got the idea. And yes I do have contact with them, since I visit my parents in Jeddah every year. Do you need their #’s too.
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
*So if the system is based on Islamic Shariat law it discriminates aganist non-muslims and women..based on implementation whatever that means and nobody has right to question it or critisize the inequality and unfairness practiced openly.. *
[/quote]
Correct me if I maybe wrong. But what I understand from Rani's post is that; she is enquiring wether anyone has any right to question the law (Islamic shariat) if some non-Muslim is discriminates because of the implementation of the Islamic Law.
To answer your question Rani, the purpose of Islamic Law is no different than any other law. It is to maintain an order in the society with fairness for all. It is not suppose to be discriminating.
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
*So if the system is based on Islamic Shariat law it discriminates aganist non-muslims and women.. *
[/quote]
What do you mean by non-muslims AND WOMEN..? It applies to both man and woman. A sad example of misconception of Islam common with non-muslims.
brothers n sisters,
Tazz & Akif are defending Saudi Arabia, may be they had 'GOOD' experiences living there. I lived there too.
Yes, LAWS there are discrminatory, and NOT all are Islamic. What I mean is, if a person smuggles drugs from Pakistan they'll behead (chop the head) him. but if a Saudi Prince smuggles drugs from some country into Saudi Arabia they'd let him go... how Islamic is that?
If a non-Saudi runs over a Saudi (in road accident), non-Saudi has to pay HUGE penalty while its not same if a Saudi hits (in road accident) a non-Saudi, why? is that Islamic?? NO
There are several examples, only if you dis-associate your love for Saudi Arabia. I spent my childhood there too, Saudi's behavior is really intolerable, insultive (far worse than Sindhi-Mohajir, Mohajir-Pathan etc).
Don't remind me of THE AWSEOME shawarma please!!
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
Changez
its not about liking or not liking saudia. Im my opinion, the issue is abidance of law. One thing that I will give you is that because of the presence of a royalty based government, its impossible for the citizens to get the laws changed, unlike a democratic setups. But when it comes to imposition and abidance of laws, saudia is no different than any other country in the world.
You take the example of the US, and you will find thousands of laws that you dont agree with, yet you have to abide by them, since their refusal will get you thrown in jail. You wont get a red carpet treatment for jumping a red light.
So lets not compare the individual laws. Talk about their imposition.
And the examples that u mentioned above are based on prejudice, something that is present in any system. They are not part of the law....they are part of the moral setup of the citizenry.
[This message has been edited by Akif (edited July 10, 2001).]
Akif, I think they have a point.
Well all the wonderful things of obedience to law, and equality and such fanciful things are fine, but the question is about actual facts of life. Life in Saudi Arabia, to be exact. And the actual laws/customs that are applied there.
Ok, my knoweldge about Saudi Arabia is second hand, from my two mammus (uncles) who lived there for 10-15 years each. So I may be wrong. But they told me pretty much the same thing.
[quote]
If a non-Saudi runs over a Saudi (in road accident), non-Saudi has to pay HUGE penalty while its not same if a Saudi hits (in road accident) a non-Saudi
[/quote]
This is what they told me too. And this is not a one-off isolated instance, but this is what is practically applied in all cases. It may not be actually written in some penal code or user manual, but seemingly all Shurtas (policemen) know and apply the discriminatory policies for Saudis and Non-Saudis.
And if it is practised and sanctioned by law enforcement personnel, regardless of whether it is the law or not, it becomes a fact of life. Like it or not.
Maybe some of you who have lived there have a different experience, contrary to what I have stated above, and I am open for correction. Feel free to share. :)
Saudi's are and have always been quite arrogant about their superiority to other people... just as the Americans, the British, the French, the Indians, the Paksitanis.. and I can go on..
As always the laws are most of the time skewed in favour of the citizenry.. (or in case of America.. the white majority). It is a simple you scratch my back I scratch yours philosophy..
you normally would not expect to scratch back of a foreigner as (i) you are not aware of their customs and (ii) you may not get your back scratched at a later date as they do not abide by the same code.
Human society has always been and almost always will be slightly discriminatory against the minority.. there is not society which can claim a moral high ground on it. all religions that have come have preached against it to no avail.. so it is not a religious issue..
Every religion have certain aspects which when taken individually do not make sense, but they only make sense when you see them as part of the bigger picture. you may look at a small gear of a wind-up clock and not understand why it does what it does.. you can only comprehend its need when looking at rest of the gear system of the watch.. if you decide to take that single gear out because you did not like its movement.. it could mean that the watch does not work properly..
similarly in religious laws, people who have limited knowledge about the whole system do not qualify to make judgements.
[This message has been edited by blackzero (edited July 10, 2001).]