Does Islam prescribe that clergy and religious leadership is to remain within lineage of Hz Ibrahim or that of Prophet saw or that of Hz Ali ra?
Share your views and tell us why you beleive so?
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
None. There is no such evidence in the Quran, and the Quran references leaders who were not in the blood line of the Prophet. That's logic enough.
Now try telling that to Maulana Fazlullah of the Radio Mullah fame.
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
The earth is Allah's. He gives it as a heritage to whom He will, and the good end is for the righteous servants. (Quran 7:128).
A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol for you if ye indeed have faith. (2:248)
Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,- (3:33)
And give me a Minister from my family, (20:29)
There is a principle of hereditary succession in the Quran.
It was our Prophets pure progeny that was chosen by Allah (swt). That is why their love is made obligatory by Allah in the Quran and their thorough purification is guaranteed. It was the Qurayshi group in Saqifa that exploited the fact that the Prophet was from their tribe, and, therefore, they had more right to the caliphate than their opponents from the Ansar (the inhabitants of Medina).
Imam Ali said about the Saqifa "They argued by the tree but they destroyed its fruits." The tree refers to "the tribe of Quraysh" and the fruits refer to "the family of the Prophet". (Tarikh Tabari)
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
As-Salamu 'Alaykum
the answer is simple, if such was the case then Allah Ta'ala would not have decreed for the Prophet's (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) sons to die as babies.
Even if we agree with them, they can't prove this for the Prophets who came before Prophet Ibrahim ('alayhi as-salam). According to them, there has to be an Imam in every era so that he can guide people to truth, yet there has been times when there was no Imam.
"The earth is Allah's. He gives it as a heritage to whom He will, and the good end is for the righteous servants." (Quran 7:128).
It was the Qurayshi group in Saqifa that exploited the fact that the Prophet was from their tribe, and, therefore, they had more right to the caliphate than their opponents from the Ansãr (the inhabitants of Medina).
Imam Ali said about the Saqifa "They argued by the tree but they destroyed its fruits." The tree refers to "the tribe of Quraysh" and the fruits refer to "the family of the Prophet". (Tarikh Tabari)
7:128 does not appear to be prescribing rule of any tribe.
The early Islamic history has been influenced by tribal traditions but thats what not i am looking for. I am askign if Islam does prescribe a hereditary clergy and ruler.
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
124,000 Prophets oh Allah. I think 20 or so mentioned in the Quran, some with their successors. Tell me ONE successor chosen from among the general population.
Read my post again as i have edited it. thanks
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
Thy Lord does create and choose as He pleases: no choice have they (in the matter): Glory to Allah! and far is He above the partners they ascribe (to Him)! (28:68)
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
so please clarify this contradiction, can Imams be only from the progeny of Ibrahim (alayhi as-salam) or not?
this is according to your own understanding:
1 - Imams only from the progeny of Ibrahim (peace be upon him)
And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: “I will make thee an Imam to the Nations.” He pleaded: “And also (Imams) from my offspring!” He answered: “But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers.” (2:124)
2 - Imams not only from the progeny of Ibrahim (peace be upon him)
Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,- (3:33)
Now, in response to your understanding of 3:33:
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Where does the ayah tells us that they become Imam? Higher status doesn’t mean Imamah. Qur’an tells us that Prophet Adam and Nuh (peace be upon them) are not free from making mistakes, then how does this go along with your doctrine of Imamah?
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Was Prophet Issa ('alayhi as-salam) an Imam? What kind of test did he go through?
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If I’m from any of the above progeny, can I become an Imam. If not, why not?
how does this show that he was an Imam? What kind of test did he go through to become an Imam? Do you know that ruling by Sharee’ah means that ruling by His authority!?
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
^ the topic under discussion is not Imamat but hereditary succession.
124,000 Prophets oh Allah. I think 20 or so mentioned in the Quran, some with their successors. Tell me ONE successor chosen from among the general population.
Read my post again as i have edited it. thanks
Thanx, i read your post again.
Thanx for pointing out that there are 124,000 Prophets, were all of them from same family? Obviously not.
Second, it appears Allah chose Prophets from different people.
Does 3:33 mean that Jews are superior to rest of the world like blacks, chinese, asians, sine they are Aala-Imran? FRom what i understand 3;33 describes chosen Prophet within these families.
Then again when Taloot was chosen as commander, he was from family of Prophet of his time.
And more importantly, i am not talking about Prophethood here altogether, i am talking about what follows Prophethood.
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
Peace All
The four Rightly Guided Khalifahs were all from the family of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) be it by marriage or blood. Also they were the most qualified for the role.
In this is an example that both family and quality are important in Islam.
I can agree that we are supposed to protect the family of the prophet Muhammad (SAW), but at the same time we are all supposed to emulate the pious people.
It is wrong to say that only the seed of Sayyiduna Ali (RA) are in the Ahl-al-Bayt. Leadership is not even that important an issue because it has nothing to do with 'aqeedah and furthermore it is not even considered a greater honour than it is considered a burden. Rulership is with Allah (SWT) ...
We should be friends and allies of one another
Thanx, i read your post again.
Thanx for pointing out that there are 124,000 Prophets, were all of them from same family? Obviously not.
Second, it appears Allah chose Prophets from different people.
Does 3:33 mean that Jews are superior to rest of the world like blacks, chinese, asians, sine they are Aala-Imran? FRom what i understand 3;33 describes chosen Prophet within these families.
Then again when Taloot was chosen as commander, he was from family of Prophet of his time.
And more importantly, i am not talking about Prophethood here altogether, i am talking about what follows Prophethood.
Okay, to make it clearer i was saying that all post-Prophet Ibrahim Ambiya and Aaema were from his lineage. Verse 3:33 shows the chosen ones (not the whole nation!) were given excellence and precedence over other people in something exclusively given to him by Allah (swt). Before Prophet Ibrahim, it was Prophet Adam and Prophet Noah that was chosen and elevated by Allah.
Re: Does Islam Prescribe Inherited Clergy and Leadership?
Interesting book related to this topic: Imamate and Leadership
In context to the Prophet saying Ali was, as Aaron was to Moses, here are some verses from the Bible so we may understand what this means:
Sirach 45: 6: He exalted Aaron, the brother of Moses, a holy man like him, of the tribe of Levi. 7: He made an EVERLASTING covenant with him, and gave him the priesthood of the people …23 Phinehas the son of Eleazar is the third in glory, for he was zealous in the fear of the Lord, and stood fast, when the people turned away, in the ready goodness of his soul, and made atonement for Israel. 24: Therefore a covenant of peace was established with him, that he should be LEADER OF THE SANCTUARY and of his people, that he and his descendants should have the dignity of the PRIESTHOOD FOR EVER.
The LORD said to Moses, 11 "Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites; for he was as zealous as I am for my honor among them, so that in my zeal I did not put an end to them. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a LASTING PRIESTHOOD, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites." (Num.25:11-13).
Jeremiah 33:18 The Levitical priests WILL NEVER FAIL to have a descendant in my presence to sacrifice burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to prepare daily sacrifices."
Ezekiel 44:15 "But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of MY SANCTUARY when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood," declares the Lord GOD.
As you can see from the above verses Aaron and his descendants (WHO ARE THE ALAY IMRAN) were given the mission as Imams (priests) of keeping purity of the sanctuary (Kabaa) FOREVER. This symbolism parallels Ali sitting on the prophet's shoulders to destroy the idols. This symbolism also parallels the fact that Ali still has his own private door in the Kabaa, which exists to this day. All of it tying in neatly with the Prophet saying Ali is to Muhammad as Aaron was to Moses. (Leading prayer was not a main function of Aaron so hazrat Abu Bakr could have that function without violating the Prophet's promise to Ali).
Now the interesting thing is that both the Jews and the Arabs have abandoned their Imams. However, Islam was created by Allah because the Jews abandoned their Law -the law which required the Jews to obey their Imams. So, we can wonder, has the creator of the world made it so, that both nations will kill each other as the world looks and laughs at them, (zilat in this world) if they fail to follow the Law they were given (obeying the minor tribe he created for them as Imams)? One nation wants to follow Umayyids the other wants to follow tribe of Yahuda, glorifying themselves, at the same time wanting the world to recognize them as spokesmen for God, but neither obeying Allah or glorifying Him. Therefore, both being punished for this hypocrisy. I dont know if this is true, but for an iconoclast it can be something interesting to ponder.
regards,
In context to the Prophet saying Ali was, as Aaron was to Moses, here are some verses from the Bible so we may understand what this means:
Sirach 45: 6: He exalted Aaron, the brother of Moses, a holy man like him, of the tribe of Levi. 7: He made an EVERLASTING covenant with him, and gave him the priesthood of the people …23 Phinehas the son of Eleazar is the third in glory, for he was zealous in the fear of the Lord, and stood fast, when the people turned away, in the ready goodness of his soul, and made atonement for Israel. 24: Therefore a covenant of peace was established with him, that he should be LEADER OF THE SANCTUARY and of his people, that he and his descendants should have the dignity of the PRIESTHOOD FOR EVER.
The LORD said to Moses, 11 "Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites; for he was as zealous as I am for my honor among them, so that in my zeal I did not put an end to them. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a LASTING PRIESTHOOD, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites." (Num.25:11-13).
Jeremiah 33:18 The Levitical priests WILL NEVER FAIL to have a descendant in my presence to sacrifice burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to prepare daily sacrifices."
Ezekiel 44:15 "But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of MY SANCTUARY when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood," declares the Lord GOD.
As you can see from the above verses Aaron and his descendants (WHO ARE THE ALAY IMRAN) were given the mission as Imams (priests) of keeping purity of the sanctuary (Kabaa) FOREVER. This symbolism parallels Ali sitting on the prophet's shoulders to destroy the idols. This symbolism also parallels the fact that Ali still has his own private door in the Kabaa, which exists to this day. All of it tying in neatly with the Prophet saying Ali is to Muhammad as Aaron was to Moses. (Leading prayer was not a main function of Aaron so hazrat Abu Bakr could have that function without violating the Prophet's promise to Ali).
Now the interesting thing is that both the Jews and the Arabs have abandoned their Imams. However, Islam was created by Allah because the Jews abandoned their Law -the law which required the Jews to obey their Imams. So, we can wonder, has the creator of the world made it so, that both nations will kill each other as the world looks and laughs at them, (zilat in this world) if they fail to follow the Law they were given (obeying the minor tribe he created for them as Imams)? One nation wants to follow Umayyids the other wants to follow tribe of Yahuda, glorifying themselves, at the same time wanting the world to recognize them as spokesmen for God, but neither obeying Allah or glorifying Him. Therefore, both being punished for this hypocrisy. I dont know if this is true, but for an iconoclast it can be something interesting to ponder.
regards,
If you are going to take examples from bible about hereditary succession or leadership you will find plenty. The bible describes Bani Israel as having God that was the God of Israel, the jews were his chosen people, he had different rules for his own people and different rules for people of other tribes.
Thy Lord does create and choose as He pleases: no choice have they (in the matter): Glory to Allah! and far is He above the partners they ascribe (to Him)! (28:68)
Very important ayat if it is properly understood. No muslim even dare to think for any sort of election (democratic systems) after understanding this ayat.
Iltemase dua
The earth is Allah's. He gives it as a heritage to whom He will, and the good end is for the righteous servants. (Quran 7:128).
Yes, it is Allah (swt) who gives to whom he likes.
Hazrat Musa wanted to make Hazrat Haroon as his vazeer for a mission assigned to him by Allah. He didnt appoint even his own brother without asking for permission of Allah (swt).
Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,- (3:33) ..
sister you missed the important next verse,
"Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the family of Ibrahim and the family of Imran above the nations.
Offspring one of the other; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing." (3:33-34)