A men goes to the qazi and confesses for a murder for example. There is no circumstantial evidence, no witnesses , the only thing to base the decision is confession of this person. Can a qazi give him capital punishment ? Death by hanging , electric chair, or any other method.
Please provide references from Quran , hadees and sunna only.
Please do not participate in this thread if you have nothing to offer other than what you have heard from some one . You do not want some one to be hanged based on what you have heard, right ?
If yes how would a qazi determine if this person has some ulterior motive for this confession. For example to save some other person from getting this punishment for example his son. Or he got some money in return , enough money to take care of the family of this person for rest of their lives.
Yes, good example is the princess in Saudi who confessed to zinnah four times in front of a Judge......and was beheaded!..
Correction: She or some one covered in black was shot in the head and it was her boyfriend who was beheaded..........happened ...........(Death Of A Princess
Saudi Arabia, July 15, 1977)
It was all over the media:
Yes, good example is the princess in Saudi who confessed to zinnah four times in front of a Judge......and was beheaded!..
Please read the my post again. I am looking for references from Quran , Hadees and Sunnah.
What if this princess was sick of her life for some other reason and wanted to die ? How would the judge know ?
Re: Does Islam allow punishment based on self confession ?
SS
beheading is not a punishment for Zina
Re: Does Islam allow punishment based on self confession ?
Peace Mirch
I have a friend who is an Imam and he did a dissertation on the Islamic Penal System. In Islam there is sentence but not punishment, except that it comes from God. A sentence can be given even if the responsible party has confessed or even if the perpetrator has been forgiven by the victim. This is designed for the damage to society that the crime had done. So a person may be repentant but the sentence will still be dealt.
I can’t believe i am quoting faithfreedom but they have got alot of hadith that demonstrate my point.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/stoning.htm
As you can see in many cases Muhammad (SAW) was insisted by the criminal to sentence them.
It is of note though that had the person not confessed then no one would know any wiser and there ould be no punishment. Confession though humiliating and honest it may be, the sin itself becomes public knowledge so the expiation of that damage to society cannot go unpaid for. Remaining quite about it, means society is not affected by it. The punishment however comes in the Hereafter if sincere forgiveness has not been made in this life.
Re: Does Islam allow punishment based on self confession ?
A sahabia came to prophet and confessed Zina. He send her back cause she was Pregenant. She came again when the baby was born, he send her back again cause baby needed mom to be fed. She cam again when baby was toddler. That time Prophet went with the punishement
This Hadith should be in Bukhari. If you want, I can find the exact reference
A sahabia came to prophet and confessed Zina. He send her back cause she was Pregenant. She came again when the baby was born, he send her back again cause baby needed mom to be fed. She cam again when baby was toddler. That time Prophet went with the punishement
This Hadith should be in Bukhari. If you want, I can find the exact reference
Peace TLK
O yaar .... Not a sahabia ... all men and women contemporaries of Muhammad (SAW) do not automatically earn the right of companionship. She was a Ghamidah.
Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Burayda (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates on the authority of his father…. “Then came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) a woman from Ghamid and said: “O Messenger of Allah! I have committed adultery, so purify me.” He (the Messenger of Allah) turned her away. On the following day she said: “O Messenger of Allah! Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma’iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant.” He (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child).” When she delivered, she came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) with the child wrapped in a piece of cloth and said: “Here is the child whom I have given birth to.” He (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Go away and suckle him until you wean him.” When she had weaned him, she came to him with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand and said: “O Prophet of Allah! Here is the child, as I have weaned him and he eats food. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid ibn al-Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and because of it blood spurted on the face of Khalid and so he cursed her. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) heard him (Khalid) cursing her, hence he said: “O Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) gave order regarding her, hence he prayed over her and she was buried. (Sahih Muslim, no: 1695)
Peace TLK
O Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven.
I heard the use of word Sahabia for her from an Alim. She was a muslima and she repented, got punished and her sins were forgiven. She paid for her errors and will not be judged for that in akhirat.
those 3 lines (that I quoted form you) of hadith exactly meant that
I heard the use of word Sahabia for her from an Alim. She was a muslima and she repented, got punished and her sins were forgiven. She paid for her errors and will not be judged for that in akhirat.
those 3 lines (that I quoted form you) of hadith exactly meant that
Peace TLK
Allahu'alim ya akh ...
Re: Does Islam allow punishment based on self confession ?
Gunah ki saza her haal main zaroori hai khuwah self confess karay kay koi pakar laay is liaay kay agar saza na di jaay to loag gunah kar kay qubool kar lain aur buch jain kay hum nain qubool to kar lia.
Dunia main apnay gunahon ki saza paa lena ziada behtar hai is liaay kay wo intehair asan hogi banisbat akhirat ya dauzakh kay.
Main to dunia main hi saza pana choose karoon apnay liaay. Aksar loag kehtay hain koi baat naheen dunia jee lo akhrat main saza paa lain gay. Those are ahmaq people.
Re: Does Islam allow punishment based on self confession ?
Salam Alaikum,
That's very interseting Psyah bro. Have you heard of the Chop-Chop square in Jeddah? Well i saw this documentary where the guy was saying this is where the murderers are beheaded after Friday prayers, once convicted. And until the moment of beheading the victim's family is asked if they forgive the one who committed the murder. And they ask over and over again until the very moment when he/she is to be beheaded, and if the victim's family forgives him/her, then the square turns into somewhat of a celebration.
So does that mean, because the victim's family forgave the committor, he/she is free now? Or is he/she still going to serve some sort of a fine/sentence prescribed by the law of the land, even if the victim's family forgives him/her?
JazakAllah Khair in advance.
Br. Mirch, sorry if this derails your thread, i was just curious about this so thought i'd ask while we're on the topic. :)
Peace TLK
O yaar .... Not a sahabia ... all men and women contemporaries of Muhammad (SAW) do not automatically earn the right of companionship. She was a Ghamidah.
Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Burayda (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates on the authority of his father…. “Then came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) a woman from Ghamid and said: “O Messenger of Allah! I have committed adultery, so purify me.” He (the Messenger of Allah) turned her away. On the following day she said: “O Messenger of Allah! Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma’iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant.” He (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child).” When she delivered, she came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) with the child wrapped in a piece of cloth and said: “Here is the child whom I have given birth to.” He (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Go away and suckle him until you wean him.” When she had weaned him, she came to him with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand and said: “O Prophet of Allah! Here is the child, as I have weaned him and he eats food. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid ibn al-Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and because of it blood spurted on the face of Khalid and so he cursed her. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) heard him (Khalid) cursing her, hence he said: “O Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) gave order regarding her, hence he prayed over her and she was buried. (Sahih Muslim, no: 1695)
This is the only hadees which is quoted for this purpose. People did not commit any other crime and came and confessed ? In all of the big population of Arab there was only one Muslima/Ghamdia who needed to be purified that too with such a severe punishment. People did not commit any other crimes in those days for which there are punishments specified in Quran e.g theft , murder . usurpation of rights and wealth of others and then came and confessed to be purified ?
I find it very disturbing. Quran does not specify Rajam ( death by stoning) as the punishment for zina and based on this hadees we are adamant to kill those who commit zina and ignore Quran in this case. Hadees and sunnat cannot supersede or override Quran but we are exactly doing that, it is very very disturbing for me.
May Allah give me some guidance and wisdom to understand the wisdom of this hadees and other ahadees which override Quran. Ameen.
This is the only hadees which is quoted for this purpose. People did not commit any other crime and came and confessed ? In all of the big population of Arab there was only one Muslima/Ghamdia who needed to be purified that too with such a severe punishment. People did not commit any other crimes in those days for which there are punishments specified in Quran e.g theft , murder . usurpation of rights and wealth of others and then came and confessed to be purified ? I find it very disturbing. Quran does not specify Rajam ( death by stoning) as the punishment for zina and based on this hadees we are adamant to kill those who commit zina and ignore Quran in this case. Hadees and sunnat cannot supersede or override Quran but we are exactly doing that, it is very very disturbing for me. May Allah give me some guidance and wisdom to understand the wisdom of this hadees and other ahadees which override Quran. Ameen.
Peace Mirch
I have heard somewhere that the woman was a Jewess and there are other hadith in the faithfreedom link that show the stoning to death penalty is actually taken from the Old Testament. It appears Jews were sentenced in Muslims lands in accordance with their own penal codes and Muslims were sentenced in accordance with their own codes.
Whether the Qur'an contradicts rajam or not is an issue for you to take up but when the Qur'an is silent on rajam it does not mean the issue is against the Qur'an. In the Qur'an it talks clearly about eye for an eye type of dealing with regards to punishment, but it does say that forgiveness is better.
This sort of answers brother Teggy's question ... There are certain cases where death (i.e. manslaughter) caused by accident can lead to just a payment from the perpetrator side to the family of the victim. However, neglegence and violent reaction and then premeditated are all treated with different levels of severity. I'll try to find the dissertation and quote from it, inshaAllah.
I mostly agree with that you have stated previously. The intent of penal law is to protect society and not necessarily avenge a crime or mishap. I will not discuss Rajam here as I have debated that before with you and the discussion eventually leads into the Nasikh Mansukh concepts to get into depth. Its just the last para of your post that caught me. In what Br. Teggy stated, a death caused by accident cannot be paralleled with crime, in which case, compensation within just limits is probably the most sensible way out. If in KSA, people are beheaded for accidental deaths (or where it is not the intentional fault of a person) then I would argue that it is wrong because it cannot be proved that there was a criminal intent, which is what should make it liable to penal law. The most one should demand is compensation to make up for a loss.
Re: Does Islam allow punishment based on self confession ?
genuine realization of not doing the right thing or doing or having done something wrong is the first step to making sure that the individual is caring & trying to become noble in deeds.
after that, it is for the person to confess to own Maker, how s/he will totally change and get better in own actions, thoughts and words.
punishment is never the most useful approach.
the best way of corrective measure, even in Quran and our faith is - seeking forgiveness after changing one's wrong behavior.
Peace Mirch
I have heard somewhere that the woman was a Jewess and there are other hadith in the faithfreedom link that show the stoning to death penalty is actually taken from the Old Testament. It appears Jews were sentenced in Muslims lands in accordance with their own penal codes and Muslims were sentenced in accordance with their own codes.
That is what my take on this hadees , I guess that may be that woman was a Jew and in Jew law's. Rajam was the punishment for fornication and there is a story about how a Jew scholar tried to save a fornicator couple and there are some verses in Quran pointing to that incident directly.
Whether the Qur'an contradicts rajam or not is an issue for you to take up but when the Qur'an is silent on rajam it does not mean the issue is against the Qur'an. In the Qur'an it talks clearly about eye for an eye type of dealing with regards to punishment, but it does say that forgiveness is better.
How an eye for an eye apply in this case ? A fornicator did not commit murder, so why a capital punishment be granted to that person ? Quran has specified hodood and tazeer for this crime very specifically and we should stick to those.
Br. Mirch, if you do some research you will learn that Rajam is one of those punishments, which was revealed to the Prophet SAW, but it is one of those verses which was abrogated in text but not in its ruling. I do not know how familiar you are with Naskh and Mansukh but it would better to read up on it if you are not. There is a hadith of Umar RA, which talks about Rajam. Though I have some objections about the different categories of Naskh and Mansukh, you will have to understand the Arabic for this one. In the Quran the word used is Zaani, which is translated into fornicator or adulterer depending on which translations you read. Generally, in arabic when the Zaani is a married person, the word used is Zaani wul Muhsin and not Zaani by itself.
Me personally, still do not agree that adultery is to be punished by Rajam, I still lean towards flogging as it is clear in the Quran and the account given through hadith is questionable (atleast IMHO) because it raises many other issues about Hadith abrogating the Quran. I will try to find the thread where we debated this at length and post it.
Re: Does Islam allow punishment based on self confession ?
thats just like a punishment from the people but the real punishment will be from ALLAH S.W.T 
I fully understand the concept of Naskh and Mansukh. As long as you also have objections on Punishment of Rajam , we do not have anything to debate about.
Re: Does Islam allow punishment based on self confession ?
Br. Mirch for your reading pleasure ..
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/253670-concept-being-stoned-death-8.html