Re: Does Allah exist?
^ for me Quran is the biggest proof of Allah's existence.
You may find follwoing article interesting: Some may disagree with the content of the article and it is their personal believe. The Quran is a open Miracle for me. The proof of existence of God.
If you say you believe these things that's one thing, but calling it proof is too much. proof is something that stands up on its own and is based on facts, not blind faith, opinions and personal beliefs.
FULFILLED PROPHECIES OF THE HOLY QURAN
by Ansar Raza, Canada
Prophecy is foretold news about any future event. In religious world, a prophecy, quite distinct from an educated and wise guess, is considered the most authentic criterion and a vital proof for the truthfulness or otherwise of a prophet. The Bible has also mentioned this test and claims that the prophecies mentioned in it shall be definitely fulfilled.
Can you backup the statement "prophecy is considered the most authentic criterion and a vital proof for the prophet"?
If we apply this criterion, every tarot card reader, astrologer and jyothisht is a prophet!
[INDENT]"I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you." (Isaiah 42:8-9) "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He." (John 13:19)
A simple question. If God really uttered these words, why did he/she have to do that? Obviously this God wants people to believe "I am He" badly and is anxious to offer proplehcy as a way of convincing them. Why not just plant that belief in them, being God the all powerful? Frankly this statement is more proof that "I" may not be "He" rather than "I am He".
In modern era atheists put the religions on trial by presenting criteria to check the genuine-ness or otherwise of the prophecies mentioned in the religious scriptures. Mr. Douglas E. Krueger, an atheist, on Pages 96-98 of his book, “WHAT IS ATHEISM – A Short Introduction” has presented the following five criteria to judge a prophecy. He wrote:
"Some criteria are needed in order to distinguish cases of lucky guesses from those of true prophecy. Let us define a genuine prophecy as one that satisfies the following five criteria:
- The prophecy must be clear, and it must contain sufficient detail to make its fulfillment by a wide variety of possible events unlikely.
- The event that can fulfill the prophecy must be unusual or unique.
- The prophecy must be known to have been made before the event that is supposed to be its fulfillment.
- The event foretold must not be of the sort that could be the result of an educated guess.
- The event that fulfills the prophecy cannot be staged, or the relevant circumstances manipulated, by those aware of the prophecy in such a way as to intentionally cause the prophecy to be fulfilled."
According to these criteria, we see that the Quranic prophecies, some of which are presented here, prove to be quite genuine and true. No one can ever imagine that an unlettered person living in a nomadic society of Arabia 1400 years ago can predict such amazing scientific events, as mentioned hereunder, to happen. It is very well beyond the human capacity to foretell or even visualize such incredible incidents. The only conceivable source of these prophecies and predictions is purely divine. Interestingly, all such prophecies are fulfilled by those who were not Muslims, rather many of them are atheists. Thus no question of staging the prophecy and manipulating the circumstances arises.
Even if one accepts the criteria set by the atheist (which by the way are full of holes but that is a different discussion), your statement that "no one can ever imagine......" is completely false. Many many people can certainly so imagine and in fact have imagined a lot more amazing events. These people come from all sorts of professions and religions. In fact 'vocations' such as astrology are much older then the Quran.
FINGER PRINTS
"Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing" (41:21)
The finger prints system at borders, criminal investigation cells and immigration centres prove the fulfillment of this Quranic prophecy.
how do you equate skin and fingers? they are not the same.
A stronger argument may be DNA can be obtained from any part of the skin but then you have two problems here: 1) DNA can be obtained from any of the body, not just skin and 2) DNA can only be used as evidence in certain types of acts, not all.
POLLUTION
"Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought" (30:42)
One of the interpretations of the above verse of the Holy Quran is the environmental pollution, caused by human being. And that is spread both in land and sea due to our own inventions, i.e., fumes from chimneys of factories, chemical and nuclear waste, huge traffic in the cities, noise and creation of ozone hole are manifest testimonies of the fulfillment of this prophecy.
This is also full of holes, in fact there are more holes than substance because:
1) how do you equate corruption to pollution?
2) even if you do that, how do you call fossil fuels that the Arabs have in abundance man made?
3) most importantly, is God admitting that man is more powerful than God that man can destry what God created?
ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL
And after him We said to the Children of Israel, 'Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people." (17:105)
Creation of Israel and gathering of Sephardic, Ashkenazi and the Jews of many other different races in Israel proves the authenticity of this prophecy and hence Quran.
So why do god fearing muslims reject Israel's right to existence?
GENETIC ENGINEERING
"They will alter Allah's creation." (4:120)
The holy Quran has prophesied the plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning in this short and concise sentence.
1) How do you jump from 'alter Allah's creation' to genetic engg? This statement could refer to almost anythinga and everything that man and animals do. For example animals eat stuff created by God and alter the food don't they?
2) Even if if by some stretch of imagination if one thinks this refers to GI, genetic engineering was performed in ancient India thousands of years before Islam came about. So how can you call this a prediction or a prophecy?
In fact ancient Hindu texts not only talk about GI but about teh dangers of it, the good kind and the bad kind etc. You should read up on our Vedas and ancient books of medicine which are a thousand times more specific than this lose statement you quote!
ROADS IN MOUNTAINS
"And when the mountains are made to move." (81:4)
Centuries before the invention of dynamite, the holy Quran prophesied the blowing up and moving of the mountains.
How do you equate 'move' to 'blow up'? two different things.
Again, mountains were moved thousands of years ago before Islam came about, so you can call this statement a very late news item rather than prediction. For example
In Ramayana, in a particular battle when Lakshmana gets immobilized by a poisoned arrow of Indrajit, Hanuman goes looking for a particular herb for antidote. When he couldn't locate it, he moves and carries the entire mountain where it grows!!
NEW TRANSPORT SYSTEMS
"And when the she-camels, ten months pregnant are abandoned." (81:5) "And He has created horses and mules and asses that you may ride them, and as a source of beauty. And He will create what you do not yet know." (16:9)
As we know people, specially those living in deserts, have now abandoned camels and other animals for travelling. But this prophecy of invention and emergence of new transport systems is on-going as we witness new and faster modes of transportation emerging all the time.
Makes no sense, this jump from horses to transport systems. And oh by the way, you mean to say horses did not exists before Islam? How can this be called a prophecy when horses were used centuries before Quran was written?
ZOO
*"And when the wild beasts are gathered together." *(81:6)
Nobody could ever imagine that one day wild beasts shall be captured, tamed and put together in closed and open parks. The establishment of zoo have fulfilled this prophecy.
Why zoo? why not the Great Flood and the gathering of wild beasts in Noah's arch - which preceded Quran so cannot be a prophecy
Or the gathering of the wild monkey army in Ramayana which again happened long long before Islam!
Or may be it refers to Barnum & Bailey circus animals?
OCCEANS LINKED
"And when the rivers are made to flow into each other." (81:7)
"He has made the two bodies of water flow. They will one day meet. Between them there is a barrier; they cannot encroach one upon the other." (55:20,21) "And He it is Who shall merge the two seas together. This palatable and sweet, that saltish and bitter. And between them He has (presently) placed a barrier and a massive partition." (25:54)
This phenomenal prophecy is an excellent proof of truthfulness of Quran. It was beyond imagination of any one living 1400 years ago to even think of linking of oceans which we see today in Panama and Suez canals.
You are jumping from rivers to oceans, but let's put that aside for a moment.
The cleverly placed 'presently' inside paranthesis changes the prophecy doesn't it? Why are you introducing words that did not exist in the quote from Quran?
Even putting that aside here is a simple, a very simple question to you:
Suez connects Meditarranean and Red Sea. Both are salt water bodies. Did Quran misread one of them as sweet water?
similarly the Panama canal connects the Caribbean with Pacific Ocean, both of which are salt water as well.
So can you please dispense with this prophetic nonsense?
MODERN COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS
"And when various people are brought together." (81:8)
Fast transport systems, telephone, satellite systems and internet have brought so close to each other proving the truthfulness of the holy Quran.
Various people were always brought together - when armies were formed and battles fought; when universties were bringing students internationally and exchanging knowledge; when there a swyamvara occurred; when a large Yagnya was performed....I can go on.
And all of these predate internet, satellite systems, telephone and what you call fast transport systems. All of these are well documented in books and sculptures of many civilizations that precede emergence of Islam and Quran.
In fact if you want to look for ancient references to remote sensing-signalling, satellite communication and data transfers, read up on the Ramayana and Bhagvat Gita.
WOMEN’S RIGHTS
"And when the female-infant buried alive is questioned about – For what crime was she killed." (81-9,10)
Modern-day women rights and liberation associations may be brain-child of freedom-loving and egalitarian humanist / feminist people but foretold by Quran centuries ago.
huh? please recheck you quote and see if you mixed the words up. As it stands, it says that "the victim is questioned about the crime the victim committed". Perhaps this is the source of why female rape victims are made to prove with four wirnesses while the accused male can sit pretty, in many islamic countries?
BOOKS PUBLISHED AND SPREAD
"And when books are spread abroad." (81:11)
The invention of printing press and publication houses and consequently spread of books every where is one of the marvellous prophecies of the Quran made in the dark ages of ignorance and illiteracy.
Books existed before Islam obviously. Monks took cured palm leaf collections abroad in abundance
If Quran was predicting printing press, there is nothing in the statement you've quoted about that
EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL LIFE
"And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever He pleases." (42:30)
Having discourse with aliens is still an unrealized dream, but science is progressing in that direction. The presence of extra-terrestrial life has been proved by scientists. The next step is to see them and making a link with them. No religious scripture, except Quran, even hints about this great scientific discovery.
can you show me when, where and which scientist has proved extra-terrestrial life? bollocks man!
Oh by the way, Hindu scriptures talk clearly about the universe, the various star systems and planets, the expansion and contractions, the science and math of orbits, gravity and super nova. They also talk about the time-space relationships and the curvature of time in various parts of the space (eg: a minute in Brahmalogh/Sathyalogh being X years in earth etc). And these were written thousands of years before Islam and Quran.
So, how is anything you state here a prophecy when all of this has been explained a million times more specifically before?
AIR TRAFFIC SYSTEM
"And by the heaven full of tracks" (51:8)
While prophesying about modern transport systems, Quran also foretold the air-traffic system which is an essential part of aviation. A person living in desert 1400 years ago cannot talk about such advance technologies unless revealed to him by God Almighty.
I am going to tell you something truly breadtalking here. There is an ancient book written by Sage Bharadwaja titled "Vymanika Sastra". The book "Vimana Aircraft of Ancient India and Atlantis" by By David Hatcher Childress, Ivan Terence Sanderson quotes from the Vymanasastra liberally. Just google it.
The sastra referred not only describes the aircraft manufacture, the alloys used, the mapping of atmospheric forces including pressures, currents, turbulence etc but also the layers and air routes that a pilot should know.
So forget about prophecies and prrof in Quran. Here is proof why present day Hindus are dumbest creatures in the world - when such documented knowledge exists within Sanskrit, not even 2% of Indians can read/write that language!
QUOTE=d-tox..ed;6574413]
AIDS
*"It never happens that permissiveness overwhelms a people to the extent that they display their acts of sex shamelessly and they are not uniquely punished by God. Among them, invariably, pestilence is made to spread and such other diseases, the like of which have never been witnessed by their forefathers." *(Ibn-e-Majah, Kitab-ul-Fitan)* see footnote
You need at least a doctor of medicine and an expert of social behaviour at the same time to talk about such behaviours and their fatal consequence. Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was neither of them, but a Prophet of God who didn’t copy from the Bible and paste in the Quran and foretell the same fate of perverts of Sodom and Gomorrah for the future perverts, but a unique disease never heard or known by earlier people, AIDS! The medical scientists are unanimous that this disease is never recorded in the annals of history.
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[/INDENT] Isn't this simply fatalistic? There are other and older texts that more specifically discuss attributes and changes in morality and behavior of humans, how it changes as the yugas progress and how the world gets cleansed and the cosmic karmoc cycle begins again.
So where is the prophecy? For Hindus this is just restatement of well known facts!