Documentary: Return of the Taliban

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

beac my darling,taliban people r not terrorists…they created peace in afghanistan…they kicked the butt of india in afghanistan and served paki interests..beac dominating majority support them…beac tribal areas and taliban r the name of same thing…beac taliban did insaaf with people in afghanistan…people were not afraid of war and drugs lord or any powerful sardar would kidnapped any afghani girl…

taliban r the best leaders for afghanistan and they will be back…our army suffered huge loses and “incredible resistance” in wazirstan according to shahid masood and killed many innocent people according to hamid mir article in jang…

meray puppo chummy jaan…as i said u need loads of time and experience to understand the politics…
before 9/11,they were our “brothers and best friends” but suddenly,they became terrorist and extremist…

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

When you say "our" friends, who is this "our" you refer to? If you mean army and ISI, then I agree, but if you mean all the people of Pakistan, then you are wrong. We (MQM and other progressive parties) were always against Taliban, because we knew they were barbaric murderers much like their enemies Dostum, Ismal Khan, Ahmed Shah Masood etc. There is no real different between these groups frankly, with the exception that Taliban claim to be the most Islamic movement when they cannot even follow basic Quranic dictates. No need to rehash these arguments again, you can read all about in the religion forum. Or just watch their actions on the videos posted. Clearly unislamic actions and words.

I understand the politics very well and double games of ISI are known around the world. Musharraf’s u-turn after 9/11 is not under debate, what is under debate is that Taliban were evil before and our evil today, and will remain evil tomorrow. It doesn’t matter when the army realized this, as the truth will remain the same no matter whose side they choose. The army could make another u-turn tomorrow, and that will nto all of a sudden make Taliban the good guys in my eyes at least.

So, I once again suggest that if you love the Taliban so much, go join them in Waziristan or Afghanistan instead of sitting in the "land of kuffar" that is Karachi while your Taliban brothers are fighting the kaffirs. Go join them, please, do not be a hypocrite. Live under Taliban rule if you think they bring insaaf.

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

my dear,i m not against u or musharaf or wht eva… i favour wht i think is right…
u need to realise tht norther alliance guys along with indians and america r huge problem for pakis and each and every one knows tht wht happened in wana and balochistan through afghanistan…

u dont have anything solid against taliban..read ur own post and u will realise wht i m saying…taliban were great people…they created peace in a country like afghanistan..i still have the recent interview of a lota like sheikh rasheed saying " taliban walay insaaf pasand log thay.un mein imaan tha…woh wapis aaiye gay"…
even a secular loser like javed iqbal was immensely impressed by the rule of taliban and the guy like him write articles in favour of them…problem is wht eva we heared is through western media…no one on this forum knows taliban personally…
and abt videos..haha…i have come accross neutral journalists saying all such videos were fake..and remember two french journalists were captured in NWFP;)…do i need to say more

our army knows how much support taliban guys have and thts y they have kicked the butts of NATO pigs…

my dear u have nothing against taliban…come out of computer games…smell the real world…

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

Well said Guy1
Let the Afghan people decide who they want to support we should not be judgemental. Taliban may be good or bad it can be anyone's opinion but if they are liked and are popular with the people then we have no business interferring in their affairs. Sooner or later NATO will also learn the truth the hard way.
We are happy with our current crop of corrupt politicians half in exile and half having a good time under an opportunist dictator

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

Guy1:

[quote]
u need to realise tht norther alliance guys along with indians and america r huge problem for pakis
[/quote]

ISI designed to conquer non-Pashtuns by making barbarian party of Taleban.
The very narrow-minded anti-NA policies of extremist ISI mullah-cum-generals are responsible for Northern Alliance's dislike of Pakistan.

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

ISI wanted a friendly government in Afghanistan for sure. But the Northern Alliance werent made anti Pak..they simply are anti-Pak because many of them are either Tajik (Persian speaking) or Uzbek (Shia Hazara). They side with the Russians and Iranians and do their bidding. But you should also note that the Northern Alliance were as fundamentalist as the Taliban. If you go to the city of Herat under Northern Alliance rule, it was still the same as under the Taliban. Neither side was any better than the other in this conflict. Taliban, Northern Alliance, just different faces of the same savagery.

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

roadrunner,did u experience taliban government urself or u heared tht from any other guy...eahc and every one knows tht northern alliance is one big time *...huge *...consisting of warlords and other criminals...responsible for killing thousands of people.....northern alliance is hugely responsible for wht happened in wana and balochistan..

and wht u have against taliban??..just in one day,they became terrorist...taliban served pakistan interest in afghanistan and kicked indian ass....they created peace in a country where the word peace is itself unreal...
afghanis needed a big danda as paki quam now needs to become sudhra how people and taliban handled such a nation in impressing way..
come out of ur narrow information world dear...people support taliban and taliban will be back....

28

Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

so how come they became barbarian??..give me neutral proofs from any newspaper or journalist…many paki journalist knew taliban much much more then wht western journalists knew…almost each and every one praised them…

and again,how come taliban became terrorist just in one day…wht abt the "islamic: country pakistan who were responsible for killing thousands of people..remember how much afganis died on containers due to lack of oxygen…

i wonder kahan kahan say log information laytay hai…

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

[QUOTE]
Pakistan needs to deploy 200,000 men in South Waziristan, 200,000 men in Bajaur region and 200,000 men on the enterance of these tribal areas

and go in all out and take care of this menace

Syria had a similar situation and they went in guns blazing, killed 20,000 of their own people but crushed the sunni extremists

we need to do the same

if they take arms agaisnt the government, then they deserve to die

[/QUOTE]

I think we should start from the top, the big brother, the Punjab
If we surf the real figure, it is evident that most of the Alqaida top members were caught in Punjab, yet there is no military action in Punjab.
I agree,
We should deply 20,000 forces in Lahore and 20,000 forces in Pindi and make the hell out of these two cities
Then on phased programme we should divert our guns towards Bajawar and Waziristan.
How is that?

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

Moreover, we only highlight the negatives of Taliban and totally ignoring their pluses.
The only govt in the history of Afghanistan who established the writ of the govt, there was a speedy justice, no one could dare to tyrannize or oppress the poor.
Yes the Persian women were not allowed to wear skirts and scanty dresses. That they did wrong. And consequentially, they (Persians) had to come to Islamabad and do everything according to their wishes.

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

Guy1:

I gave a simple reason why Northern Alliance became anti-Pakistan establishment. That was the main gist of the post.

Now whether Taliban were barbarian or not, was a secondary issue here.

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

  • Your information is incorrect. Uzbek are neither Hazara nor shia. Hazara is a separate ethnicity from both Tajiks and Uzbeks.
  • While you were so quick to mention Hazara as shia, I wonder why did you not mention that both Tajiks and Uzbeks are sunnis?! Obviously, it did not play well with “shia conspiracy theory” against Pakistan.
  • Why would Tajiks be against Pak only because they speak Persian language? It only shows your own prejudice against Persian. You are so blatantly putting blame of being anti-Pak on people who are as sunni as you are, only because they speak the language you so obviously hate!
    It’s this narrow-minded mentality of some Pakistanis which generates hatred against Persian-speaking ethnicities of Afghanistan. Now they go and aid Pashtuns to fight against their self-perceived “enemies” of Pakistan, and when these non-Pashtuns retort in kind, these narrow-minded Pakistanis cry for them being anti-Pakistan.

The fact is that Pakistan ISI/army tried to dominate Afghanistan by establishing and aiding a purely Pashtun group in the name of religion. The non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan did not see them as Islamist, but as exclusively Pashtun group who wanted to conquer non-Pashtun ethnicities.

Battle between Taliban and Northern Alliance was/is not about religion, it is PRIMARILY ABOUT ETHNICITY.

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

The local people of NWFP cannot be changed with a wand, Uncle Sam is under pressure due to the presence of Uncle Sam's scout's in the neighbouring country to Pakistan and coffin boxes returning home here and there and unrest in Sam's world is the sole reason for Uncle Sam to release stupid statements out of the blue about the region which they dont comprehend at all; (history, lifestyle of the locals and day in and out mentality, custom's and traditions...etc). the documentry illicit that Pakistan govt should go Wham Bam in that area, the example may not do justice but its like saying to Amish people to wear shorts and T-shirt's and cut your beards and only drive convertibles, it doesnt work that way simply.

You can make the locals adapt to the changing enviornment, but dont hold your breath or expect changes with a blink of your eye, it is a long term process and the only way it can happen is providing flow of $$$ in the form of schools, growing crops which are fruitful to that region and creating hospitals, influx of media (Tv and Radio); bottom line is economic growth, the way they go to North in the "parosi country" they should come often to south for agriculture trade.

The documentry is another example of what attitude and approach they have toward the area which is million miles apart, and the reporter who ask the question that did Pakistan gave $$$ to the tribal people so what, when was the last time you question Uncle Sam scout's when they came to un-conqured country from North by all means; black/-white, providing cases of $$$ or whatever to get their means!

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

The fact is that Pakistan ISI/army tried to dominate Afghanistan by establishing and aiding a purely Pashtun group in the name of religion. The non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan did not see them as Islamist, but as exclusively Pashtun group who wanted to conquer non-Pashtun ethnicities.

Battle between Taliban and Northern Alliance was/is not about religion, it is PRIMARILY ABOUT ETHNICITY.

Yes because persians cant be trusted. Dont you remember your Godfather Ahmad Shah Masood, he used to visit Pakistan, get a handsome booty and then divert his route to India in order to get even a better prize.
Pakistan has every right to have a friendly govt in Afghanistan. And Pushtuns are the best option.
If the battle between Taliban and NA was/is about Ethnicity. Then only Pukhtuns have the right to rule in Afghanistan, then Pakistan has every right to support Pukhtuns whether they are in the shape of Taliban or somebody else

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

Khushhal:

[quote]
Yes because persians cant be trusted.
[/quote]

Out comes a stinking racist. Now where is all the talk of Islam and oh-so-pious Taliban?
Some Pakistanis call Americans racist people, and condemn them for stereotyping Muslims. Now we have a Taliban supporter stereotyping actions of a few to condemn a whole section of population.

Some people are still living in Dark Ages. Neither their living in West nor their use of internet, has made an IOTA of difference in their medieval mentality.

[quote]
If the battle between Taliban and NA was/is about Ethnicity. Then only Pukhtuns have the right to rule in Afghanistan
[/quote]

  • So Khushal accepts that Pashtuns are using religion only to "conquer" other Muslims. Is this what you call a jihad?

  • If Pashtuns dream of conquering, massacering, and raping non-Pashtun Muslims (somehow it is "Islamic" stuff), and if maulanas in ISI support their jihad against fellow non-Pashtun Muslims, then why do some Pakistanis cry foul when those non-Pashtuns become anti-Pak?
    It's so damn obvious.

Gone to detroit
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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

Khushaal:

[quote]
Yes because persians cant be trusted. Dont you remember your Godfather Ahmad Shah Masood
[/quote]

Ahmad Shah Masood was NOT Persian. He was a Tajik ethnically and sunni religiously.
The word 'Persian' is used both for the people and the language. But anyone speaking Persian language is not necessarily a part of Persian people.

I understand your hatred of Persian language and Persian people. It evolves from many Persians being shia. Isn't it?
In this zeal, people like you consider anyone speaking Persian language to be an automatic enemy, even if they are not shia.

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

You really think the Pakistan army can take care of them without suffering heavy casulties. Is the army properly equipped to deal with them?

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban


So you want us to adapt ourselves like those bloody persians whose women are given a free rein to do all kinds of hanky panky in Islamabad and elsewhere?
I am a proud Pukhtun and I would love to follow my undiluted Pukhtunwali, no matter you call it dark age or any stupid thing.

[quote]
- So Khushal accepts that Pashtuns are using religion only to "conquer" other Muslims. Is this what you call a jihad?
[/quote]
I dont understand that. Your Ahmad Shah Masood, Rabbani etc were also fighting for Islam.Pukhtun never wants to conquer, they want their legitimate right, being 75% of the total population in Afghanistan, they have all the rights to rule.
The poverty stricken Pukhtuns in]Afghanistanand Pakistan can ill-afford to conquer other Muslims.

[quote]
If Pashtuns dream of conquering, massacering, and raping non-Pashtun Muslims (somehow it is "Islamic" stuff), and if maulanas in ISI support their jihad against fellow non-Pashtun Muslims, then why do some Pakistanis cry foul when those non-Pashtuns become anti-Pak
It's so damn obvious
[/quote]
Dont worry, Pukhtuns have never raped persians,
...
Pakistan or ISI has all the right to do anything in order to augment its security on its borders. If they feel comfortable with their Pukhtun brethren in Afghanistan then why not as they have a bitter experience with persians.

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Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

Let me clarify it. When I say persian, it implies all non-Pukhtun people in Afghanistan (Dari speaking) and that include mainly Tajiks, hazara and Uzbaks. Of course not our brothers in Iran.
And I dont understand from where did you cropped up this Shia - Sunni business, I give a damn.
Persians (Tajiks, Uzbaks and Hazara) are minority and should remain as minority in Afghanistan.
Taliban were Pure Pukhtuns and that is good enough reason for me to like them.
And that was also the sole reason for Pakistan's support

itna sannata kyun hai?
40

Re: Documentary: Return of the Taliban

How can you call separate ethnic groups of Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras as PERSIANS?!

Here is a little lesson on our neighbors:

PERSIANS - Persians are the biggest ethnic group in Iran, but all Iran is not Persian. For example, Ayatullah Khamenei is actually Azeri.
Persians formed the first Iranian empire along with Medes, through their famed king Cyrus. Since Persians were majority in that state, so the whole state was named after them, and was called Persia.

Now here is an important point. The word 'IRANIAN' is not equivalent to 'PERSIAN'. Because Persians are considered one of many Iranian people (Iranian branch of Indo-Aryans). Other Iranian people are Tajik, Baloch, Pashtun, Kurd, etc.

TAJIKS - As we saw above, Tajiks are NOT Persians. Just like Baloch and Pashtuns, Tajiks are also not Persians. Tajiks speak a dialect of Persian language, called Dari (Tajiki?).

UZBEK - Uzbeks have absolutely nothing to do with Iran and Persians. Uzbeks are Turko-Mongol people of Central Asia. They speak Turkish language.

HAZARA - Like Uzbeks, Hazara also have no affinity to Persian people. Hazara are Mongoloid people, who speak Dari, a dialect of Persian language.

So you see that being 'non-Pashtun' does not mean being 'Persian'.

Now about Pakistan supporting Pashtuns for being 'pure Pashtun', well, that is what I am saying. Pakistan ISI supported Taliban for theire being 'Pashtun', and not necessarily for their religion. Because other non-Pashtun population of Afghanistan is Muslim as well. So there was no question of religion. Pakistani ISI tried to impose their favorite ethnic group over all Afghanistan.
Now what will be the reaction of those non-Pashtuns towards Pakistan? Off course, they will hate Pakistan, and that's what they do now.
So why do Pakistanis condemn them for their being anti-Pakistan? It is our own army who nurtured this terrible group called Taliban, and tried to conquer our own fellow Muslims in the name of JIHAD.
And while they were waging their Jihad against fellow Muslims based on ethnicity, I wonder where the talks of "Islamic brotherhood" were gone?

Hypocricy or what?

Mehmood Ghaznavi