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Originally posted by astrosfan:
** So Muslims were ruthless killers. What does that have to do with it's power to inspire and to make people believe its words? **
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When Umar ibnAbdul Aziz came to the office of Khilaafah, a delegation of men from Samarqand saw him and represented that the general of the Islamic armies, Qutaibah, had unjustifiably stationed his army men in the town in their midst.Umar ibn AbdulAziz wrote to the governor of Samarqand that he should appoint a tribunal to judge and settle the dispute between Qutaibah and the people of Samarqand. If the judgement of the tribunal goes against the army chief and his men are asked to vacate they must do so at once. The governor appointed Jami` ibn Hadhir Albaji as judge for inquiry. After the inquiry was over, he, though himself a Muslim, passed the judgement that the Muslim army must vacate the town. He also remarked that the commander of the Muslim forces ought to have served an ultimatum of war to the city, and according to the Islamic Law relating to war, he ought to have cancelled all the treaties with them so that the people of Samarqand could get time to prepare for the war. "Sudden attack on them without warning was unlawful."
When the people of Samarqand witnessed the state of affairs, they were convinced that this was an unparalleled case in the history of mankind… the state keeping its Commander-in-Chief and the armies under such strict discipline and control, bound by lofty moral principles. And consequently they decided that fighting against such a people would be futile. Rather, they came to regard it as mercy and a blessing from God. Therefore they agreed to live with the Islamic army in Samarqand.
Just imagine. An army conquers a city and enters it. The inhabitants of that city complain to the victorious government and the judges of that government decide the case against the victorious army, and order the deportation, saying that they could not live there without the consent of the people of that city. Can either the ancient or modern history of mankind point out any war in which the fighting men kept themselves so strictly bound by the moral code, and followed such lofty principles of truth and justice, as demonstrated by the sons of our civilization? In so far as my own knowledge is concerned, not one among the nations of the world can be pointed out which demonstrated such lofty morals. ** Is There a Parallel in Any Civilization?**
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Originally posted by astrosfan:
** Muslims still do. You've been to the religion section on this forum, yes? You've been to Afghanistan, where tribes are fighting against tribes, as we speak? **
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So do Christians, Hindu’s etc etc. What does it have to do with the teaching of Islam? That’s the whole point when we followed Islam there was no parallel power on the face of this planet. Certainly Hindu civilization was no match!
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Originally posted by astrosfan:
*only after subjugating the Jews to constant derision, taxation, and pain. Same with the mushrikeen. And then it fell apart. *
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Study the history carefully, it was the Muslims who saved the Jews in Europe from Christian tyranny of that time. It was Jews them selves who helped Muslims conquerors of Spain against Christians. Then it was the Christian of eastern Roman Empire who preferred to live under Islamic protection against their Western counterparts when the Byzantine Constantinople was conquered by the power of Islam. Did not we treat Hindus of India with limited tolerance even though they were not even the People of Book. Surely we could have wiped out the entire Hindu civilization when we enslaved them. Which Indian power of that time could have held up against the power of Islam. Tipu Sultan and Akhbar, etc. Are they not the examples of Muslim tolerance of Hindu nations of Hindustan.
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Originally posted by astrosfan:
** So many Roman Muslims in the world these days. **
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What do you think is the heritage of Muslims from Western Turkey (formally Constantinople) to some nations of European Balkans, were they not part of the Eastern Roman Empire? What do you think of the conquest of the so-called mighty Persian Empire of that time? Their entire population reverted back to Islam. What do you have to say about Hindu India? Are there not more then 400 million Muslims living in Sub-Continent?
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Originally posted by Br. flikk:
** Did they not carry the islamic ideaology to Asia,Balcans,Africa,Spain and even South France and Russia?
**
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Reply posted by astrosfan:
*And yet there are still more Christians.
*
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What difference does that make? How far did the Hindu ideology reached? In-fact it failed in the shape of Akhand Bharat! Compare the Islamic land for 1 billion Muslims with Hindu land for 1 Billion Hindus? No comparison! Some crunch!
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Originally posted by Br. flikk:
*Were not the muslims the leading scienitfic nation while the Europeans were in the dark ages and didnt even know that the Earth was round? *
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Reply posted by astrosfan:
** And are now fighting against scientific principles as modern science strains the scientific knowledge of the Koran.
**
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This is the fact that Muslim contribution in science is unparalleled? Do you not study Chemistry or Algebra? Where do you think such names come from? Even the West had the guts to accept that Western renaissance was the prelude to Islamic civilization but yet you deny the fact!
Who said that Muslims are fighting against the scientific principles? If that were the case then there would be no technology in Islamic world and no scientific institutes, but that is hardly the case. Even OIC sponsors modern scientific research in different Islamic countries. One example would be COMSTECH headquartered in Islamabad. Besides why don’t you compare the present day scientific spending budgets and accomplishments of Hindu civilization VS Islamic civilization and then answer your self if Muslims fight against the scientific principles.
Quran and science are in complete harmony as is well known. Even the Christian West acknowledges the wealth of scientific knowledge in Quran. Why deny the truth when we all know that it has been revealed. Is there any thing in Quran which the modern science can disprove? Never!
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Originally posted by Br. flikk:
*Did they not defeat the Crusaders,even after the crusaders killed thousands of muslims?
*
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Reply posted by astrosfan:
*And the crusaders still stayed Christian.
*
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They were thoroughly subdued, and even after they killed thousands of Muslims. Did Muslims not treated them with compassion? Read the history, even the western version of Sultan Salahuddin Ayubi accepts the fact. If they choose to be Christians, then it is ok with us, as there is no compulsion in religion. Did not the Christian West apologized Muslims for the atrocities they committed more then thousand years ago. What is your point?
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Originally posted by Br. flikk:
** Like the islamic state was establish in Medinah , it will surely return again.**
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Reply posted by astrosfan:
** Well, you just go on hoping. And maybe, if enough of you keep having 60-70 children, you can breed us out. **
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If only Muslims could apply 10% of true Islam. They would conquer the entire planet! Any way, in time it will be proven as all civilizations of the world would move towards their respective ideologies and so will the Muslims, then we will see the promise of Allah (SWT) fulfilled. And by the way who has got a billion people living in that tiny land you called India compared to same billion living in the Islamic World? Talk about who is over flowing!
[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited February 01, 2001).]
