Do you Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Peace All

A library of sources from non-Muslims speaking about the person of Muhammad (SAW) … courtesy of research of quotes goes to a dear friend whose pen name is Mithridates … Please read below:

But first watch these videos:

Conquest of Makkah:

"The day of Mohammad’s greatest triumph over his enemies was also the day of his grandest victory over himself. He freely forgave the Koraysh all the years of sorrow and cruel scorn in which they had afflicted him and gave an amnesty to the whole population of Mekka. Four criminals whom justice condemned made up Mohammad’s proscription list when he entered as a conqueror to the city of his bitterest enemies. The army followed his example, and entered quietly and peacefully: no house was robbed, no women insulted. One thing alone suffered destruction. Going to the Kaaba, Mohammad stood before each of the three hundred and sixty idols, and pointed to it with his staff, saying, ‘Truth is come and falsehood is fled away!’, and at these words his attendants hewed them down, and all the idols and household gods of Mekka and round about were destroyed.

“It was thus Mohammad entered again his native city. Through all the annals of conquest there is no triumphant entry comparable to this one.”

Stanley Lane-Poole:
The Speeches and Table-Talk of the Prophet Mohammad,
London 1882, Introduction, pp. 46,47.

"… In comparison, for example, with the cruelty of the Crusaders, who, in 1099, put seventy thousand Muslims, men, women and helpless children to death when Jerusalem fell into their hands: or with that of the English army, also fighting under the Cross, which in the year of grace 1874 burned an African capital, in its war on the Gold Coast. Muhammad’s victory was in very truth one of religion and not of politics; he rejected every token of personal homage, and declined all regal authority: and when the haughty chiefs of the Korei****es appeared before him he asked:

"What can you expect at my hands?

"Mercy O generous brother!

“Be it so; you are free! He exclaimed.”

Arthur Gliman:
The Saracens, London 1887 pp. 184, 185.


“This deep-hearted Son of the Wilderness, with his beaming black eyes and open social deep soul, had other thoughts than ambition. A silent great man; he was one of those who cannot BUT be in earnest; whom Nature herself has appointed to be sincere. While others walk in formulas and hearsays, contented enough to dwell there, this man could not screen himself in formulas; he was alone with his own soul and the reality of things. The great mystery of Existence, as I said, glared in upon him, with its terrors, with its splendors; no hearsays could hide that unspeakable fact. The word of such a man is a Voice direct from Nature’s own Heart. Men do and must listen to that as to nothing else; all else is wind, in comparison. From of old, a thousand thoughts, in his pilgrimings and wanderings, had been in this man. What am I? What is this unfathomable Thing I live in, which men name Universe? What is Life? What is Death? What am I to believe? What am I to do? The grim rocks of Mount Hira, of Mount Sinai, the stern sandy solitudes, answered not. The great Heaven rolling silent overhead with its blue-glancing stars, answered not. There was no answer. The man’s own soul, and what of God’s inspiration dwelt there, had to answer.”

Thomas Carlyle:
On Heroes, Hero-Worship and the Heroic in History, London 1888.

"Certainly he had two of the most important characteristics of the prophetic order. He saw truth about God which his fellowmen did not see, and he had an irresistible inward impulse to publish this truth. In respect of this latter qualification, Mohammed may stand in comparison with the most courageous of the heroic prophets of Israel. For the truth’s sake he risked his life, he suffered daily persecution for years, and eventually banishment, the loss of property, of the goodwill of his fellow-citizens, and of the confidence of his friends; he suffered, in short, as much as any man can suffer short of death, which he only escaped by flight, and yet he unflinchingly proclaimed his message. No bribe, threat or inducement, could silence him. ‘Though they array against me the sun on the right hand and the moon on the left, I cannot renounce my purpose.’ And it was this persistency, this belief in his call, to proclaim the unity or God, which was the making of Islam.

"Other men have been monotheists in the midst or idolators, but no other man has rounded a strong and enduring monotheistic religion. The distinction in his case was his resolution that other men should believe. If we ask what it was that made Mohammed proselytizing where other men had been content to cherish a solitary faith, we must answer that it was nothing else than the depth and force of his own conviction of the truth. To himself the difference between one God and many, between the unseen Creator and those ugly lumps of stone or wood, was simply infinite. The one creed was death and darkness to him, the other life and light… Who can doubt the earnestness of that search after truth and the living God, that drove the affluent merchant from his comfortable home and his fond wife, to make his abode for months at a time in the dismal cave of Mount Hira-

Dr. Marcus Dods:
Mohammed, Buddha, and Christ, pp. 17, 18.

“… We feel that the words which he (Muhammad) speaks are not the words of an ordinary man. They have their immediate source in the inner reality of things, since he lives in constant fellowship with this reality.”

Tor Andrae:
Mohammad, London 1936, p. 247.

“It is strongly corroborative of Mohammed’s sincerity that the earliest converts to Islam were his bosom friends and the people of his household, who, all intimately acquainted with his private life, could not fail to have detected those discrepancies which more or less invariably exist between the pretensions of the hypocritical deceiver and his actions at home.”

John Davenport:
An Apology for Mohammed and the Koran, P. 17.

“In little more than a year he was actually the spiritual, nominal and temporal ruler of Medina, with his hand on the lever that was to shake the world.”

John Austin: Muhammad the Prophet of Allah,
in “T.P’s and Cassels’ Weekly” for 24th September 1927.

“… He became head of the state and the testimony even of his enemies is that he administered wisely. The wisdom he displayed in judging intricate cases became the basis for the religious law that governs Islam today.”

“… Forced now to fight in defence of the freedom of conscience which he preached, he became an accomplished military leader. Although he repeatedly went into battle outnumbered and out-speared as much as five to one, he won some spectacular victories.”

James A. Michener: op. cit.

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Hater? Is that what I am because I don't follow your beliefs or selectcive account of history? Are you a hater for not believing in the Hindu interpretation of religion, prophets and history?

I never said Muhammad wasn't a balanced man. Or a wise man. Or influenced by God. Or had remarkable accomplishments that greatly improved the lives of his followers. Or wasn't brave, righteous and honorable. Or wasn't extremely intelligent. Or wasn't fighting in the defense of the freedom of conscience. Or wasn't persecuted. Or wasn't the biggest champion of monotheism in the history of mankind. I believe all those things. He was a great man and a great leader. There is no question.

I contended, and still do, that in the initial spread of Islam, coercison and intimidation were tools of conversion. But he was the leader of an insurgency. In their eyes, an insurgency backed by and endorsed by God. I don't have a problem with that. He fought for great ideals and the people of the time were a lot bettter off because of it. He was responsbile for greatly improving the living conditions, justice system, eductation, social system, governing system, economy and any other measurement one can come up with for the people of that place and time.

But to deny that he was also a brilliant general that commanded an army to achieve his strategic objectives is beguiling. It's not as if all of Arabia came under his command soley through pacifistic means and by preaching "the truth". He formed an Islamic army to defeat his enemies. There is no question that in the conquest of enemies comes forced obedience.

Tell you what, if you won't label people who don't have the same reverent, unquestionable, unconditional devotion to the same religious figures as you do, neither will I.

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

....

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

no need for personal attacks slaveofallah

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? … Att. Seminole

Yes, you are right, Muhammad(peace and blessings be upon him) was a great general but Islam was not spread by the sword, it was defended by the sword and spread by love.
For you,
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=270872

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

My questions - why is a religioin and principles started by such a great man has now become such a sorry state? If you ask in a large majority of world's population today what comes to their minds when islam is encountered is violence and intolerance - bombs, jihad, repressed. people, enslaved women, barbaric customs and a sense ever increasing danger. Even within this website if you look thru, there are intense supporters of these vices and others.

We can all be happy and feel good about what some people said about muhamed but that doesn't change how bad the followers have made islam to be today.

Bitter truth.

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Responsible is who? The followers or those who made the followers what they are now. I believe It is still a minority, who use quranic verses to justify suicide bombings. No one asks for their social back grounds or state of living.

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

I like this post of yours, well balanced. It just falls short on one thing though, where you say he SAW was influenced by God, is that a hint to his prophethood or something else you are trying to say.

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Yup

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole


I believe there have been many teachers and leaders throughout history, from many different religions, who have been influenced by God and had divine inspiration including Zoroaster, Socrates, Buddha, Confucius, prophets of Israel and Judah, Jesus and Muhammad.

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

I always wondered why no prophet has been recorded to come for indians or were Buddha, RAAM can be called prophets? Obviously , as far as I know, there is no indication of that either in Islam or christianity. Anyone??

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

^ we don't need prophets when Gods themselves reside and come visit here in India! That is why India is Bharath the greatest land for the soul and mind.

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Alright. So let me put my question other way: Has there been any visitation by gods in india been recorded. If so then when was the last time gods did actually visit india in their original form not in the form of avtaars?

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Semi, you still did not clearly answer. Do you believe in Prophethood and that Muhammad SAW was a prophet?

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

There is no 'original form' that can be comprehended by humans. The relationship between God and human is a lot more complex than the simplistic models presented by prescriptive religions such as Islam, Christianity etc.

Sanathana Dharma requires self awareness first. It is also a lot more about self than about God, rituals, rites and prayer

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Peace USResident

Are you looking for his mustard grain? :)

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Peace Tariq Akhtar

This is an essential question and to be precise the answer to it should follow to be a reason for great reflection.

When the Jews lost their way God made them defeated by their own enemies i.e. Romans or pagans. Christians were also taken over by the Muslim Arabs. Now Islam spread but when those who represented it did not do so properly it was taken out of their hands, Persians then took over Islam.

Allah (SWT) tells us that those people who do not live up to their duty in Islam they will be removed and Islam will be given to a people who will take their place. This has happened when Islam was with the Jews and Christians and then with certain races with Arabs and then Persians and now Islam seems as if it is in the process of being passed to the Anglo-Saxons - a different people.

The current Muslims who are mostly in the Eastern World are being destroyed (systematically) by the Atheistic (pseudo-Judeo-Christian) hedonists and amongst these people are the new representatives of Islam emerging. Just look and see who are the true Muslims and who are not. By true all you need to do is compare them with what you know about Muhammad (SAW).

People used to be classed by race, but now people are better defined by their socio-political stance and geography. i.e. you can get blacks who are considered American or British. However, amongst them are Muslims who have chosen this way.

It is quite possible that Islam has been in all places in the World and when reading up certain historical books we can see that India has a legacy of monotheistic scripture pre-Judaism (Veda) and there is monotheism from Native American tribes also.

The sorry state of Muslims has no bearing on Islam, rather it is purely a reflection of how badly we are carrying the message of Islam as a people today.

(I have used the name 'Islam' in this post to represent every Divine order from Allah (SWT) )

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole


My definition of prophet is probably different from yours. I believe God guided him as he did with the others I mentioned as well as thousands and millions of others, to varying degrees. Do I believe he was a continuation of the Christian-Judeo prophets that trumped their beliefs and scriptures? No.

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

^Psyah: This post of mine may be a diversion; if so please move to a separate thread.

I have heard it from one or two muslims before that there is a sect or school of muslims who believe that islam came to be much before the 6th century advent of prophet Muhamad. What is this based on? All my readings have been that there was ni islam before him and that he communicated with Allah and started it.

By the way, Sanathana Dharma does explains even today (not just pre-Vedic or pre-anything) that the supreme being is one and that various people can and will believe worship and commune in different forms, names and ways. I think many a times the inability to distinguish between belief and worship (which is innate to Hindus probably) causes many non-Hindus to think somehow oneness of God and worship of many is in contradiction. That will probably take us into a deep discussion, so I'll stop! :)

Re: Do the Haters Know the Man? ... Att. Seminole

Dear Stircasy,

Long time i have posted but this post of yours did make me write a few points of my own analysis as written in the Quran, and what muslims believe in totality.

Firstly let me put this across to you, i am not commentiong on the 3rd paragraph (sanathan dharma), rather i will put across my point whether Islam existed before Prophet Mohammed or not.

Before going into detail let me just define what Islam is: Islam in simple sense means 'submitting your will to God through peace'. Now that is Islam, now who is a Muslim its just the verb of the noun Islam (please correct here if my grammar is wrong) i.e. someone who brings Islam into action so in simple terms again Muslim means submitting your will to God.

The aforementioned paragraph is mandatory for you to understand and to connect dots between Islam and Prophet Mohammed. If you have understood, the meaning of Islam you have understood that islam did predate before Prophet Mohammed.

Accordingly Islam is present since time immemorial, we Muslims believe Islam started with Prophet Adam (the first human on earth) so Islam is nothing new, infact Prophet Mohammed was the last Prophet amongst the series of Prophets sent by God and finalized the last of the divinely revealed books and Perfected Islam and the religion for Human beings (here I am stating from the Muslim pov)

According to Islam Prophet Moses, Jesus, David, Solomon, Abraham, Noah are all Muslims (peace be upon them all) now this should suffice you that Islam existed before the Prophethood of Prophet Mohammed pbuh.

Also understand Allaah is not an other god, but if translated in simple English its God and other languages such as hindi as Bhagwan, in French as Dieu, in Kannada as Devaru, I cant remember of more.

Remember the christian bible, the Arabic version has Allaah in it just if translated in english its GOD.

Regards