Do You Have the Entrance Fee for Paradise?

[StirCrasy]

Re: Do You Have the Entrance Fee for Paradise?

@USResident

Then how do they have the realization of good and bad which eventually according to your philosophy leads them to being reincarnated into a higher or lower form of life. So from being a rat, how do they transition to a muskrat or a mouse?

In case of human beings, by experience and thinking things through. In case of non-human beings, I don’t know, it is for them to know. Also don’t automatically conclude that rat to mouse is an upgrade unless you have some inside track.

If you guys have a way of knowing how rats think and learn, I am curious to know

@USResident

So its a philosophical book of some great men of the past, nothing divine about it.

you obviously haven’t heard about religion being nothing else but a certain philosophy in action. What you are saying is no different from concluding that quran is nothing but the result of a hallucinated mind of an epileptic - where is the divinity there?

@USResident

Quran is a message from Allah SWT according to our belief and testament. Its not a world Almanac or Encyclopedia. It is a guidance which we use in all aspects of life. Some set in stone and others not, which has given rise to fiqh.

see above. It is only according to your belief. Unless you have a video of Allah dictating Quran or Sri Krishna esposing the Srimad Bhagwat Gita, you cannot hold either up to current day court definition of evidence of divinity. So right from the get go, both and a myriad others have the exact same credibility as far as the source goes. Further merits or demerits of each have to be based on the content, applicability, relevance, and ethical principles.

As applicability, relevance and ethics are context driven and since context changes over a long periods of time, the adaptability of the work becomes a virtue and rigidity becomes a liability that renders the work useless.

This to me is therefore a qualitative comparison rather than a test of source divinity.

@USResident

Our principles in life do not change, the first and foremost of which is to earn the pleasure Allah SWT. It is two-fold i.e. spiritual and humane.

So what? I will take issue with the accuracy of your statement about principles not changing, ask you why you want to earn the pleasure of Allah etc but it is not germaine here.

Also show me one religion or cult that doesn’t claim it is about spiritual and humane.

@USResident

Might be much worse and muslims are not exempt from it, if that makes you feel a little better. Muslims are the ones who are trying to avoid that fate though and would like the rest of you to avoid it as well. What you do in this world does not affect me because we believe we will be judged only for our own deeds. I am just delivering the message. The choice is yours. So its not about being tolerant or intolerant. See I cannot send you to hell or heaven, its not in my power, so it has nothing with me being tolerant or intolerant. If Allah SWT will not tolerate certain things, the point is there ain’t a damn thing we can do about it other than believe or disbelieve. However we know where each choice leads, the smart one will opt for the better choice. When we submit, we are testifying that cannot measure upto Allah SWT in anyway and that is a fact and truth lies at the heart of it. In the end, we are told, his mercy prevails over his wrath, so always hope for the best but not at the expense of doing everything to erode that hope. Muslims do not submit to humans but only God, but subscribing to an ideology that runs contrary to belief in Allah SWT we would be submitting to humans.

refer the highlighted.

1. we are not discussing your tolerance or intolerance because as you said there ain’t damn thing you can do either way. what has been questioned is the claim that islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion; given that islam is based on quran and that very quran says uses language such as burn-in-hell and worse, there is a built in hypocrisy.

We wouldn’t bother even about that if some of those who are muslim aren’t going around killing non-believers quoting the quran; but the fact us they are! so when we search for the reasons within quran we find these statements which the jihadis take as justification to their actions.

2. Let us take it to higher level of abstraction and use the term God instead of Allah - now, obviously God has proved quite tolerant of non-muslims. There is unshakable proof for that, some of which are:

   • 4/5 of the world’s population does not believe in the specific Allah you’re talking about, yet doing no worse than the 1/5.
   • While a majority of the killings are being committed by those who say they are ‘believers’ by your definiton, a dominating majority of charity, and humanitarian efforts (the very same virtues I have heard Quran espouse) are undertaken by the non-believers

• What’s worse and making it conclusive is the fact that not only is a majority of the killings are committed by ‘believers’ (by your definition) but a majority the ‘killed’ is also the ‘believers’.

So it seems to me that Allah likes the non-believers than believers.

3. muslims do submit to humans all the time. some examples:
   • those living under a dictatorship are submitting to the dictator
   • womenfolk, to be held righteous, are submitting to their parents and husbands
   • when you apply for a credit card online, you are submitting your data to me
   • when you want to travel abroad, you are submitting your application for visa to someone

I know, I know, in all these cases we are really submitting to the underlying law that the submittee is enforcing and not to the submittee per se. In fact the submittee will also have to do the same thing to get a visa, a credit card or to be held righteous. Submission to God is no different. That is why Gods are also operating within a Dharma!

@USResident

Gosh my head would fall down if it weren’t attached. Did you leave anyone out except those who don’t believe in God.

Are you sure it is attached? Pls check