DAWN.COM | National | US to help refurbish power plants
Well do you? They are doing all of this out of the goodness of their hearts? Highly unlikely.
4500 MW is a stretch and not sure how long will it take to get there.
We have tied US hands by insisting on “not signing NPT” and yet asking for loans to buy nuclear power plants.
We say we want India like deal. The problem is that we don’t have fing money, and India is rolling in foreign reserves thanks to their pro-US awam and business class.
So we don’t have money, and thus do not have leverage that India and China enjoy when planning to buy nuclear plants.
China has already bought 5 large 1000 MW each plants from the US. Why because it is paying HARD CASH in $$$$ from its trillion dollar rich piggy bank.
Indians do not have triilion dollar piggy bank, but still they can easily pay 10-20 billion dollars cash for their nuclear purchases.
We on the other hand want to get the same deal as China and India but we show up with a completely empty kushkol.
Without large nuclear plants from the West, all our measures based on dammed up water, and imported “read Very very expensive” oil are doomed to fail.
Why?
Water in Pakistani dams is meant for irrigation. It produces electricity ONLY when we need water for our precious crops.
oil was affordable at rates 30-40 dollars a barrel. Those days are long gone. And with prices hovering at double and in some cases triple the amount, there is no way in hell that we can easily pay cash to buy oil.
Other short term measures like producing some electricity form new dams like KBD and Bhasha are good 10-15 years away.
And thanks to our tung-nazri and petty ethno-fascism, thar coal is also lying dormant for at least another 10-15 years.
Thus the bottom line is that US AID would help, and the guy Shah is saying the right things.
But the help will be limited because we have tied US admn hands due to our terrible internal and external policies, and lack of support from US business lobby that can’t come visit Pakistan and we can’t give them cash.
If we had cash, we would tell US AID to take their money and spend elsewhere in poor countries.
But unfortunately we have made ourselves poor and thus dependent on the LIMITED dole outs from people like Shah.
Re: Do you believe him?
Why are you stuck in the tribalistic mentality of us vs them? So sad. Think about Pakistan only.
Why are you stuck in the tribalistic mentality of us vs them? So sad. Think about Pakistan only.
No one liners please. Pick up a specific sentence(s) and discuss it.
Re: Do you believe him?
doesn't matter, they refurbish or not. .we need a freaking "energy security policy" for next 50 years... go through the pain for once give it 5 years .. but make it correct...
Re: Do you believe him?
This is nice, but don't think Pakistan Govt. would be too keen or take this "gift" as urgently as say kickbacks.
Case in point, UAE gave away a 300+ Megawatt plant to Pakistan as a present. All the UAE Govt. required was that Pakistan arrange for its transportation and take it to Pakistan and utilize it. It's been months now, if not years, and that plant has yet to arrive in Pakistan because the officials get no benefit from this. Anything that comes without carrots for corrupt cronies can wait, and so can the public.
It's a real sad state of affairs. Iran continues to offer cheaper electric alternatives day and night, yet the Govt. is in the state of slumber, but rather quick to sign and move controversial bills such as Kerry-Luger. Just makes you think who this Govt. is really representing.
This is nice, but don't think Pakistan Govt. would be too keen or take this "gift" as urgently as say kickbacks.
Case in point, UAE gave away a 300+ Megawatt plant to Pakistan as a present. All the UAE Govt. required was that Pakistan arrange for its transportation and take it to Pakistan and utilize it. It's been months now, if not years, and that plant has yet to arrive in Pakistan because the officials get no benefit from this. Anything that comes without carrots for corrupt cronies can wait, and so can the public.
It's a real sad state of affairs. Iran continues to offer cheaper electric alternatives day and night, yet the Govt. is in the state of slumber, but rather quick to sign and move controversial bills such as Kerry-Luger. Just makes you think who this Govt. is really representing.
Oh bhai,
Plant to lay lo, chalao gay kaisay bhai, chalao gay kaisay. $80 a barrel oil means, Old model oil fired plants are dirt cheap,
Why?
because running cost are "unaffordable" for third world countries like Pakistan.
We were able to run these when oil was cheap. Not anymore.
the only option to bring down the operational costs is to go with water, coal, and nuclear.
Even then we need cold hard cash to buy the necessary equipment to set the things up.
We are truly stuck between a rock and a hard place. So unfortunate.
Re: Do you believe him?
^According to thsi report the plant is gas-fired (?runs on gas) and shipment costs are to be born y UAE and not Pakistan government.
^According to thsi report the plant is gas-fired (?runs on gas) and shipment costs are to be born y UAE and not Pakistan government.
to bhai, gas konsi muft hai. Uski ki bhi to loadshedding hoti hai.
And if we buy natural gas from overseas, who will pay for it?
Bijli ka bill to daina nahin, payments kaisay hon gi?
....Other short term measures like producing some electricity form new dams like KBD and Bhasha are good 10-15 years away......
'Short Term' :D
No harm with USAID helping us with power policy if we can stand unreasonable demands from the agency and they make sure money is not pocketed by bureaucracy.
'Short Term' :D ..
yeap for a nation that plans to be around for 100s and perhaps 1000 years, it is obvious that 10-15 years are within the realm of short-term planning.
Hope you got the point.
Re: Do you believe him?
I swear I am not sure whats more annoying, how wrong you are on basic realities of Pakistan or that you actually consider them to be true.
Gas costs money of course. But what about our gas reserves? That of course would cost billions of dollars, not to mention we have 14 billion dollars in reserves. 
Re: Do you believe him?
And then the indians have nerves to claim that they have nothing to do with american policy making towards Pakistan.
Besides, this should be a big no from Pakistani side especially so because it almost seems like indians are running the US of america since 1991.
Regarding the energy crisis solution, can someone explain to me why government is completely ignoring the solar energy solution & seems to only be interested in RENTAL powers? Shaukat Tareen clearly stated it would be insane for the Pak government to think of rental power as a solution so they made him resign. They are making every such government officla either resign, get sacked or get killed who makes an attempt to save Pakistan from destruction.
Is there anyone in Pakistan who can find these traitors behind the BAJA of pervaiz ashraf & execute them one by one? These are the types of circumstances where the military intervention is required. You see, these are the times.................. I am not suggesting that as a solution but who else can bring these traitors of Pakistani nation to justice?
Re: Do you believe him?
There is a serious dis-connect between the interests of the Rulers and Ordinary person.
otherwise , Pakistan has an installed capacity of about 20,000 to 21,000 MW , with a demand of about 15,000-15,500 ...we are producing about 10,000 or so MW .
reason the most important being
1- NO Real Will
2- Circular Debt.
3- Nefrecious Interests of the concerned , at cross purpose with the interests of Pakistan.
Else how would you explain .... the denial to Iran , who is willing to provide 22,00 MW immediately , ....even willing to help develop infra-structure for it ,and at about 1/3 the current price.
....this serious disconnect between the Interests of the ruling Elite and the interest of Pakistan is the real stumbling block...
or Democracy is being used for REVENGE......!!
There was a guy on some TV talk show along with documental proofs that this fake energy crisis has deliberately been breated by the government in order to make the nation become so frustrated & not say 'no' to the mass suicidical plan for them - The rental power plants. This guy claimed that he got those documental proofs in the form of print outs from WAPDA's own website as it had that information about 1-2 months ago. He also mentioned that the same information which he was carrying in the form of print outs has been WIPED off the website & is not available there anymore. Meaning if anyone of us wants to go & see the same records that he was carrying, we cannot as they have taken that information off their website.
Those documents contained graphs & tables depicting the current energy requirement, production & the future requirement & production & the capacity. It said Pakistani resources had capacity of producing 15,000 MW but during the last month, the actual production has been reduced down to 4000 MW from 10,000 MW.
He also mentioned that he was invited to the talk show with a promise that BAJA crook ashraf would be there & he had intended to ask him the reasons why the production was intentionally dropped from 10,000 MW to 4000MW. But BAJA had not showed up. The anchor said she was also told the same but had no idea why instead of BAJA, another crook was sent in who instead of talking facts, figures & proofs, continued to beat around the bush by some speeches which were good for the understanding of 3rd grade students or the illiterate. He was never able to answer one single assertion made by the guy carrying the proofs.
Towards the end of the show, you know what they did with the guy with the proofs? The anchor along with the other invited crook replacing BAJA, made it sound like the guy carrying proof was a crook himself & was lying & was unfairly blaming the government of corruption. No explaination of a single proof out of all that he was carrying. The show had quite a messy & abtrupt ending.
I was able to watch that show in the only 1 hour power we 'co-incidently' had at that time when usually we dont.
This crisis has been delibrately created by the government. Nobody should have any doubt about that.
There is a serious dis-connect between the interests of the Rulers and Ordinary person.
otherwise , Pakistan has an installed capacity of about 20,000 to 21,000 MW , with a demand of about 15,000-15,500 ...we are producing about 10,000 or so MW .
reason the most important being
1- NO Real Will 2- Circular Debt. 3- Nefrecious Interests of the concerned , at cross purpose with the interests of Pakistan.
Else how would you explain .... the denial to Iran , who is willing to provide 22,00 MW immediately , ....even willing to help develop infra-structure for it ,and at about 1/3 the current price.
....this serious disconnect between the Interests of the ruling Elite and the interest of Pakistan is the real stumbling block...
or Democracy is being used for REVENGE......!!
na ker yaar… this is first time in my life I have heard of dams being proclaimed as ‘short term’ plan.
As of now, our economy has been badly hit by the law and order situation. We HAVE to be compensated for the losses we have suffered. This is not pittance, but our right.
As for the relations with USA, Habib Jalib warned us years ago…
:D
na ker yaar... this is first time in my life I have heard of dams being proclaimed as 'short term' plan...
KBD and Bhasha would add 5-10 thousand mw. and only in the crop season. So their contribution to the overall need would remain limited (and thus short term solution).
Don't tell me you didn't understand this basic stuff. It will be pitty.
p.s. no need to quote "known socialists (in not downright card carrying commies)" on their utterings and mutterings about USA.
Their shairy is good, but the message for commie leftie.
Re: Do you believe him?
^ Please, please show me a single document in the history of power planning (or any kind of planning for that matter) where there or any other dams (the size of bhasha) are indicated as 'short term'.
I thought you believed Chinese commies doing well these days. :S