Do you Agree with this??

*i’m sure you guys have already heard this but i was wondering what you think?
*

**French Muslim woman barred from Paris pool for donning head-to-toe “burquini”
**

PARIS - A Muslim woman who tried to go swimming in a head-to-toe “burquini” has been banned from her local pool in the latest tussle between religious practices and secular authority in France.

Officials on Wednesday insisted they banned the woman’s use of the Islam-friendly swimsuit because of France’s unusually strict hygiene standards in pools - not because of official hostility to wearing overtly Muslim garb.

Under the policy, swimmers are prevented from wearing any street-compatible or baggy clothing, such as Bermuda shorts, in favour of figure-hugging suits.

The woman, a 35-year-old convert to Islam identified only as Carole, complained of religious discrimination after trying to go swimming in her burquini in the Paris suburb of Emerainville.

She was quoted as telling the daily Le Parisien newspaper that she had bought the burquini after deciding “it would allow me the pleasure of bathing without showing too much of myself, as Islam recommends.”

“For me this is nothing but segregation,” she added.

The issue of religious attire is a hot topic in France, where head-to-toe burqas or other full-body coverings worn by Muslim fundamentalists are in official disfavour.

French lawmakers recently proposed a ban on the burqa and other voluminous Muslim attire. President Nicolas Sarkozy backs the move, saying such clothing makes women prisoners.

But Daniel Guillaume, a regional official in charge of swimming pools, said Carole’s poolside rebuff had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with public health standards.

He said swimmers throughout France must wear special clothes to the pool, whereas a burquini could be worn all day long, collecting everything from food spills to sweat along the way.

“These clothes are used in public, so they can contain molecules, viruses, et cetera, which will go in the water and could be transmitted to other bathers,” Guillaume said in a telephone interview.

“We reminded this woman that one should not bathe all dressed, just as we would tell someone who is a nudist not to bathe all naked,” he said.

Guillaume said France’s public health standards require all pool-goers to don appropriate attire - swimsuits for women and tight, swim-specific briefs for men - and caps to cover their hair. Bathers also must shower before entering the water.

Guillaume said Carole had tried to file a complaint at a local police station, but her request was turned down as groundless.

Carole told the daily Le Parisien she would protest with the help of anti-discrimination groups.

The Associated Press could not reach the woman for comment Wednesday.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

I don't like public pools anyway.

Making a hoo haa about such small issues gonna create more hatred for us.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

yes i do agree with it.

I think sometimes one must not tolerate when faced with ignorance (assuming those women were not forced to wear Burka). In general, tolerance is completely American conception. And I am not buying it for a minute. but it's totally different conversation.
"I think that the fact that a symbol that has come to represent a facet of Islam has been so publicly maligned is troubling, but what troubles me more is that the burqa has become a symbol of Muslim women in the first place. Even when a Muslim woman makes a "consensual" choice to wear a burqa she is still operating within a male-dominated framework... Read More that constructs her religiosity on her behalf. Her choice to become more religious may be her own, but the ways in which she is taught to become more religious aren't exactly female-friendly. I would like to hear what Muslim women scholars have to say about the burqa - Is a Muslim woman's religiosity really meant to be contingent on her public confinement?

Niqab/Burka is not even close to 'required' in Islam! the only requirement is a modest dress. Where are you getting this "requirements" from some Saudi Men inspired lame fatwas?
Also, women should respect the legacy of the countries they chose to migrate to. France is notorious for keepting relgiion and state separate, it's the tradition of laicite, which does not allow citizens to mix public space with religious symbols. jews and christians also have problems with that in France.
But covering one's face means being ignorant in your own religion + disrispect to the country of your residence. We need to be more flexible, if you wanna cover just wear hijab and you gonna be totally fine.

USA has a very different understanding , history, and practice of democracy than France. So aren't you by forcing exactly "american" understanding of things like "freedom" (which is not an absolute concept, it's a relative thing, defined by many things such as culture political history and nationalism) to the country as France that had bloody 100 war on the bases of the religion? My point is that Muslims need to work with majority of population rather than being dramatic and clinging to the things that are not even a part of the religion.

what we call "freedom" is a constructed concept which means it's never an absolute, it's a relative thing depending on many other thing, not just what you personally feel is right.

e Freedom that we are talking about is always framed by social norms, morals and again, the culture of a particular society.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

^the woman wasn't wearing a burqa and niqab. she was wearing a modest swimwear.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

If the swimming pool had a dress code, the woman should have adhered to the same.
I do not understand this selective religiosity. This woman had no problems in getting herslf photographed.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

She isnt asking to be allowed to wear a niqab or burka in the pool! This issue has nothing at all to do with the niqab or burka. I dont like the name “burquini” because it makes people mentally picture a woman swimming in a niqab/burka :smack: What it really is is like basically a long sleeve shirt with loose leggings and usually like a skirt or short tunic on top! Its just a modest alternative to regular swim wear!! You can see pictures here
Ahiida - Ahiida® Burqini®™ Swimwear

The guy has obviously never even seen a “burquini” :smack: My friend has one, it totally is NOT something anyone would walk around all day in!!! Just as someone would put on their swimsuit when they come to the pool, so does someone put on their “burquini”. If someone comes to the pool in a tiny bikini you dont accuse them of walking around all day in their bikini and bringing sweat and food spills or viruses to the pool, so why would you assume that someone in a “burquini” has been wearing their swim suit all day long :smack:

Honestly thats such a racist thing to say :smack: Just because the lady doesnt want to walk around in a tiny two piece and decides to cover her body in a full swim suit when she goes swimming, you are assuming that she is an immigrant who has migrated to France?? Maybe she was born there, maybe ten generations of her family have been born there. Suddenly she isnt considered French enough just because she is Muslim? This has nothing to do with respecting the legacy of a country. She is only asking for the right to cover herself. It isnt her religion that is oppressing her, its the stupid French government by thinking it has the right to DICTATE what women are or are not allowed to wear!! :smack: :smack:

Re: Do you Agree with this??

About this case specifically, I think the woman should have checked the pool regulations beforehand. Some pools do not even allow you to wear a t-shirt and shorts over your swimming suit, while other pools do (especially if its in a Jewish neighbourhood, they let you wear modest clothes to the pool usually because many Orthodox Jewish woman do as well). The woman should check around to find pools in her area, she might be able to find ones with a more relaxed dress code, or a womens only pool with no men lifeguards, maintenance workers etc, so she doesnt have to cover her full body in the pool and can wear shorts with her swim top. If there is none, instead of insisting on wearing what she wants, she should try to meet with the pool owners to sit down and discuss. Maybe the Muslim community can organize a special weekly ladies only swim time or something, I have seen that in my city here

Re: Do you Agree with this??

I second what sister midnighteyes is saying here ...

Muslims should create establishments that allow and cater for Muslims as well as for others.

Personally I think the real threat to French living is modesty ... With modesty one can no longer be French, it seems France is going to get a reputation for itself as a nation that wants people who show flesh to represent it.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

Muslims female swimming? Its like an oxymoron.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

first off, i dont believe there is such thing as modesty swim suits. far out, who are you kidding.

And thats not all!!! Guess what!!! They actually have hair under their head-rags!! Gasp Gasp Gasp!!!

:smack: :smack: :smack:

What an incredibly ignorant, ridiculous, backwards thing to even think, let alone actually waste your efforts in typing it out

of course there are modest swimwear.....many christian and muslim sites are selling 'em.
And muslim women should learn to swim, shoot and fight and must teach their children also. got it?

She was a french woman who converted to Islam.

The person who stopped her from swimming was a moron, let's admit this.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

Muslims should have their own swimming pool and should ban biki clad women to swim in that pool . Simple solution.
Or they can negotiate with the management of swimming pool to designate non bikini hours for Muslim men and women . There must be some non busy hours which they can reserve for Muslims . It makes good business sense.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

Muslims should have their own identity in the world, let alone french swimming pools!

I agree with psyah, the president's wife is an exposed model, so what should you expect from them.

I completely agree with your post, thank you!

Who are we or anyone for that matter, to decide what someone else should/shouldn’t wear or what is fine for them? :vivo:

I want to share an experience over here … I am an art/design student in netherlands … and the amount of islamophobia on tv here is insane … there are so many freaking shows about it … that it was driving me nuts eversince i came here last year … so of course because all of this, including this news about the french burqini deal, i was urged to do my first year final project based on the burqa … you can see it on the link hereunder:

the Farrah experience: July 2009

there are pictures and a vdo at the end of the page too …

my project was not set up to show a woman in burqa, but to highlight the response of the non-muslim audience towards such a woman. while i was giving my jury, and explaining other people about my work … a few of them listened intently, some of them got extremely defensive, some asked stupid questions out of sheer lack-of-knowledge and facts … but the worst thing that i experienced was from 2 turkish or moroccan boys. i live in rotterdam, and there is a huge populations of turks and moroccans here and you see a lot of women in burka, and rarely do you see someone who has her face covered as well. now these 2 boys came to me to confirm if that was my project … and after saying yes, they said can you please walk with us and tell a bit more. but they never let me talk and just kept saying strange things … and i was just like whatever and left them at their disposal … and this just rung a bell in my head of the attitude of the male muslims, especially the younger ones, who are ruining the image of islam, and causing issues for everyone. on tv the other day, a man was saying that in germany the situation on streets becuz of these turkish/morocan boys is worse than it was during hitler’s time!
the new muslim generation in the west is under such a major identity crisis, that they definitely are acting extremely weird! i feel more insecure walking in a street with these boys hanging around than walking in a dutch neighbourhood! i dont know if the burqa would have become an issue if the men of islam hadnt become so intimidating, and all these labels that have unfortunately been attached with islam from the terrorist world. it’s a cycle … it began somewhere …
i also did a project where i made a flowchart beginning from 1900s uptil now of technological advancements alongside political history … it gave me quite an insight …
https://pzwart2.wdka.hro.nl/~fshakeel/technologyVShuman.jpg

nothing is an object by itself … it is surrounded by ten different factors that affect it directly and adversely!

Re: Do you Agree with this??

If her suit were made of the same or comparable material to swimsuits I don't see why there would be a problem.

If her suit did pose a markedly higher health risk than those suits worn by the majority in those pools, then I would agree with their decision to decline admitting her inside.

However, if there is no proof that the suit would pose a significantly higher health risk then I would consider it discrimination. Though, I think this situation unfolded because of ignorance on the part of her dress, and a knee-jerk claim of discrimination on her part.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

Why not build a segregated pool as segregated weddings.

Because it requires much more money and struggle to do that. Besides, there are many women only pools but still they lack of privacy for not having curtains and stuff.

Re: Do you Agree with this??

It seems as one's trying to just outdo the other using these mischievous tactics or something. What's all the fuss about? If u wanna swim... Muslim friends, please make your own pool, so atleast others would have something to look upon. Build ur identity before u ruin your's and other's. Simple.