Such as Quran, Bible, Grant sahib (sp?), Gita etc? This topic is inspired by this post “…but when we have the Quraan already, we dont need any more guidance…” So is philosophy even needed or necessary for those who believe they have God/Guru etc’s words written down for them? How’s philosophy accepted or appreciated by these religions?
The way I understand the need for books is similar to the need or prophets. It all revolves around the purpose of our existence. If we were created by a higher supreme being to discover Him (or Her, if you prefer a female pronoun) and in the process discover ourselves & be better human beings than we need some guidance. Some religious philosophies are all about personal spirituality through meditation. Hinduism & Buddhism being a few to name .. and from my reading most Native American traditions are also tend to explore spirituality in a personal context. Other religions tend to focus on catering to the needs of a society & thus collective spirituality is promoted in their philosophies; for example praying together at a wall or temple or a Masjid.
It is said that the preservation of knowledge through recorded text, compared to the word of mouth or memorization, has increased the collective learning of the human race many folds. Knowledge about a drug to be useful for a certain disease used to take centuries to be known to a community, now take years and sometimes months to be available globally. So, why can’t the recorded text, supposedly from the supreme being, expand our horizons about our spirituality? Why shouldn’t it be considered a blessing and a timely aide in our journey to discover ourselves and why all of us have to reinvent the wheel of spirituality by ignoring all the 'books'?
philosophers can help create a more sophisticated understanding of the texts…
and then they can twist the meaning of the texts to go against the traditionalist and cause a lot of stir…
and then u have sects cuz of them…
and all this…
thats what makes religions interesting, no???
what was the question again??? 
sabah, my understanding of philosophers is a bit different from the orthodox. For me, these are not people who solely are busy with sitting in a corner and overthinking and thinking. Rather for me they are the same as scientists -mind you, the distinction between science and philosophy is from somewhere in the 1900s, before that both were the same people-, and as such they are explorers and inventors. And I think for the proper understanding of any scipture one needs a certain amount of creativity both of soul and brain
i dont think philosophy is disallowed, laikin certain matters aren't.
those are issues within 'islamic' philosophy, which God has not given much explicit information about, and arguing over them with people so that people become divided is not allowed.
i think i am not sure, but there is an ayat to this effect.
this used to happen a lot with islamic 'philosophers' of those times. one hears of these people who argued bitterly over whether the Quran is a creation or not, being God's word and upon the exact nature of God,which is stuff anybody knows that you can't really cant say anything about.
otherwise i see no reason to not philosophise.
In my own opinion, this is akin to asking "Since we have text books, why do we need teachers?"
I suppose that I look to those more educated in the meaning of my religious books to guide my own understanding of God's message in my life.
"those are issues within 'Islamic' philosophy, which God has not given much explicit information about, and arguing over them with people so that people become divided is not allowed."
Exactly! And in order to identify 'those issues' one needs good understanding of the religion and consequences of a philosophic discussion, which again requires a philosopher. It'd be interesting to hear counter arguments on this issues as well. As a lot of ppl (read Muslims) wont appreciate open discussion on even the basics.
How are religious scripts not philosophical to beging with?
It depends on how you read the scripts. The way we read Quran its not philosophical at all. Anything can be philosophical, as in, there's a message in everything you see, hear and do etc. If you can read and understand it, great, else you'll just see/hear a lot of words and sounds. Same with religious scripts, most of us have learnt to read Quran but majority don't know what's written and why.
Let's try again.
You say why need "philosophy" if we have religious scriptures? I'm saying that religious scriptures are largely philosophical to begin with. (It does not matter if the believer does or does not look at them that way--unbelieving in something does not result in its nonexistence).
Nope "I" didn't say, lookie here - "This topic is inspired by this post "...but when we have the Quraan already, we dont need any more guidance..." "
I'm just discussing the quoted line.
to identify those issues one needs good understanding
of the religion and consequences of a 'philosophic discussion',
which again requires a 'philosopher'As a lot of ppl (read Muslims) wont appreciate 'open
discussion' on even the 'basics'.The way we read Quran its not philosophical at all.
Anything can be philosophical, as in,
'there's a "message" in everything you see, hear and do etc.'
you don't seem to be giving a single concrete definition or example
of 'philosophy'as you see it. and from the looks of it, you have some
very novel meaning in your mind.
care to elaborate?
the literal meaning of philosophy is "search after wisdom, argumentation".......n ALLAH say in quran, uss ka mUFHOOM hay" HUM NAY QURAN KO KHOL KHOL K BAYAN KER DIA HAY, TOA KOI HAY K SOCHAYE SUMJHAY"....wht Allah i asking for?.....to explore quran...
n dats wht philophy calls for...........quran ko perhnay aur phir sochnay aur samjhnay kee baat kyon kee gaee hay...........coz behind text of quran there is a very composed philosophy.....
^do you think the philosophy behind Qur'an will ever be fully understood, or is actually the goal of the Qur'an to make sure its philosophy cannot be understood so that one can/shoud/might spend a whole lifetime reflecting and changing his/her understanding?
well i dont think so....coz i can't figure out any reason for which quran can have such an objective.......in fact in my idea n urz the difference is believe......to the extent i read n understood quran...i always found it giving hints......n very logical hints.....hints to understand the divinity ...to understand life ...quran doesnt come up wid literal commands ...it always advocates reasoningand land ogic......wht u need to do is just to give it a thought......an unbiased analysis and research....sincerely give it some time....as much as u do spend to understand different scientific and philosophical jargons.......
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*Originally posted by show_sha: *
well i dont think so....coz i can't figure out any reason for which quran can have such an objective.......
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if it wasn't as i sketch, it would be mean someone will be able to understand the quran completely....that wud mean one goal of life is removed from him?
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in fact in my idea n urz the difference is believe......to the extent i read n understood quran...i always found it giving hints......n very logical hints.....hints to understand the divinity ...to understand life ...quran doesnt come up wid literal commands ...
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so ur agreeing that fully understanding quran isn't possible....?
[quote]
an unbiased analysis and research
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is this possible?
if it wasn't as i sketch, it would be mean someone will be able to understand the quran completely....that wud mean one goal of life is removed from him?
suppose u r chain smoker, when u started smoking u had no clue to wht extent its gonna b injurous to ur health.........but after some time u read some where on a billboard that SMOKING is injourous to health( A HINT).....u stared wondering y n to know how it is injurous to health you used ur different resources to confirm whether is it or is it not ....n if it is then how n to wht extent(An effort TO KNOW ABT). after confirmation u quit smoking or carry on wid it....what was the main objective of this activity.....to gain knowledge abt the draw backs of smoking......or to know whther u were doin right or some thing wrong...in other words to rectify whther smoking is good or bad......either u shud quit smoking or carry on?
there is saying in urdu: AQAL MUND KO ISHARA KAFI HAY....(HINT).....
so ur agreeing that fully understanding quran isn't possible....?
ALLAH says in quran as i qouted b4 that HUM NAY QURAN KO KHOL KHOL BAYAAN KER DIA TOA KOI HAY K SOCHAY SAMJHAY.............again matter of believe.....i think this ayaat is prompting that yes quran is understandable.......yes its not easy to do.....but still one can strive.....yeh soch k Quran samjhna mumkin nahee humain Quran say door lay jaye ga....
abt unbiased research.........well i read some where k for A TRUE REASEACH biaseness is void.....yes as muslims we cant go for this approach as far far Quran is concerned ......but if u wonna learn abt some thing then u have to analyse.....n Quran also advocates this approach by using the word" sochna n samjhna"....
also u must b knowing Quran is also named as AL FURQAN....means the one who differentaites........diferentiates b/w good and bad.....now choice is urz to seek for good or for bad
Philosophy helps us understand the world.Why wouldnt we need it?
one more thing is that k adapting an unbiased approach to analyse Quran doesnt push us towards KUFAR......basically either we r afraid of talking openly abt our own religion just bcoz of a fear k kaheen hum koi ghalat baat na soch baithaye.......or v dont wonna think n discuss abt it...coz v r again afraid that this analysis wud reveal our real staus as muslims..aur at last apni nazar HUM NAAM K MUSLIMS BHEE NAHEE RAHE GAIN
show_sha, i think we're talking along each other here. Wat I was meaning to say was although we might think that Qur'an contains absolute knowledge, will it be possible for us to distillate this out of it? Or are we always bound to our own preconceptions and the knowledge we gain from the Qur'an will always be coloured and subjective?