Do Not Give Daul Nationality

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Our Government accepts dual nationality of Pakistani origins in certain cases. As I am given to understand if a Pakistani origin gets US Nationality he does not officially remains a Pakistani Citizen and now on demand perhaps there is some consideration that these people may also be allowed to retain or claim Pakistani nationality as Pakistani origins in case of UK, Demand can do.

I had been in middle east for more than 15 years. Though I am just an ordinary person and had been at an ordinary senior clerical level yet incidentally I was posted at a very important seat in a very important Ministry. Applications for nationality used to be passed through my department. Thousands and thousands Pakistanis, Indians used to apply, begged our help and sometime we did help a little if we can but I myself never ever applied though it was a bit easy chance for me to get it. I am now in Pakistan unemployed as of course now in this age of 55 I can not get any job. Nor do I have much savings. I only have my leaving dues on which rate of profit in Pakistan is only to cope with electricity bills. Had I obtained nationality there I would had now been getting Rs. 60,000 a month pension. It is my foolishness or patriotism, it is not a point here.

There are two categories in this regard. First one those who get nationality of Europe ie UK, USA, Norway, Canada etc. Second those who get nationality of Middle East/Arab countries.

Despite the fact a single man has no voice I would put on record opposing giving Pakistani nationality to ex Pakistani origins particularly to first category namely living in UK, USA, Canada etc. In my view one who at the time of comparison gives more weight to a foreign nationality and do not feel any pain abondening his/her motherland nationality does not deserve to be allowed to retain nationality of our this beloved country.

In this first category these people keep their 90% earnings and savings abroad and not in Pakistan. Earnings or savings of this category has no benefit for the motherland Pakistan. They only at the most keep a small family savings account, some defence certificates, a house for any bad times like what happened after 9/11, or property given on rent. They have in fact no love or sympathy with their original mother land. This can be judged from the fact that if anything or any injustice happens to them in Pakistan instead of trying like before as when they were Pakistanis, they immediately rush to their Embassy in Pakistan making complaint. They trust more on their new country’s Embassy rather than Pakistan. Their main interest only is establishment small quick earning industry but with repatriation facility, more plots in big cities ON CONCESSIONAL basis, more concessions, reserved seats here and there, voting rights etc.

Though under the same principle who fees no pains leaving his/her motherland nationality should not be given Pakistan nationality, yet to the second category namely those in Middle East/Arab countries can be given a little margin. Because unlike Europe these people despite having obtained Middle East nationality and in government papers there being termed as Arabs, these people are not treated in any way “locals” by son of the soil Arab communities rather they are still called Hindis (Pakistanis or Indians). They have no future there. One day their generations are to run away from those new homelands. Knowing well their fates written on the wall as well as future of middle east economies these people keep all their savings in Pakistan feeling it more safe. 90% of them have only a single home made abroad and keep their most property in Pakistan.

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aaa .. ?

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yes all pakistanis living abroad are ghaddar, ihsaan faramosh, tota chasham, selfish people. shame shame

and people living in Pakistan are all patriotic, and do everything that is beneficial to the country. hip hip hooray

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so if i moved to a middle eastern country, id be elegible for a dual nationality? why the discrimination?

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Re: Do Not Give Daul Nationality

This is an absolutely ridiculous generalization. If you would have accused me of that in person, I would have felt seriously insulted. :snooty:

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You can have dual nationality if your canadian.
Next time, just state the facts. Lose the personal opinion part.

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For your information, there is no restriction on dual nationality from the Pakistani side. The problem with US is that the US does not allow dual nationality therefore you have to give up the pakistani citizenship to become a US citizen. For them, there is an option now to hold a pakistani "green card" known as "origin card" to allow them to be connected to the motherland. For UK & Canada etc you can hold dual nationality.

With regards to the ignorant comments by the thread initiator, it is not worth responding to. It just saddens me to think that ignorant people like her are given senior positions in ministries.

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Jab patah na ho toh bolay mateeee.

technically that is incorrect from what I understand. Let me bust out some knowledge here..

http://www.embassyofpakistan.org/dual.php

US nationals of Pakistani origin can now have dual nationality. In addition to their US passports, they can now also keep their Pakistani passports. In order to apply for their Pakistani passports they would have to submit their original US passport, which should have “Pakistan” as the country of origin, and in addition, one original Pakistani ID, like an original current or expired National Identity card OR an expired Pakistani passport. They would also have to fill all the required forms necessary for the renewal of passports, which can be downloaded from the Consular Services section .

The facility to keep Pakistani passports in addition to US passports has primarily been granted for purpose of identity, property transactions and legal transactions IN PAKISTAN.

Please also see all information regarding Pakistan Origin Card..

The dual nationality arrangement has been arrived at after consultation between the two governments and has the full approval of both governments

**and this is what dept of state has to say about it

404 - Page Not Found **

Dual Nationality

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person’s statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person’s allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country’s embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad

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shahnazpk ji, is it your personal opinion or you posted it as news from some site?

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Yes it is totally my own personal feeling and I do not wish or have any intention that people should agree to it. Since we claim ourselves living in today’s developed civilized society hence if I have put my thought which if are strange should not create a hatred eyes for me.

I never think those who have taken foreign nationality are Ghaddar as has one viewers very sarcastically enquired. No Pakistani having Pakistani nationality or double nationality is Ghadar. It has in fact become fashion in our society to term the others Ghadars who speaks a little different. Yes those eg those who enjoy government facilities in the name of rights in Sui fields, use sui transportation for families, receive collective salaries for the ghost workers appear to have posted on their orders, receive themselves 500 zakat cheques but for whom and still demand gas royalty are Ghadar for me. For me they are not nationals.

Asking that Pakistanis working in Middle East could be given dual nationality was not in my view a discrimination. It was just my idea and probably I have not been able to explain my view point due to my limitation in English. I had no idea or wish for any discrimination. What actually I meant was that if for any reason eg to please such Pakistanis in the name of their investment in Pakistan, it is vital to award double nationality then those living in middle east this be given. Reason I have already explained those who get nationality in Arab countries though in office files are treated at par with Arabs but practically are not. In hospitals they are still treated as Hindis. A doctor was my very close friend when I was abroad. He and his brother had got local nationality. One day the brother fell ill. Doctor took him to the hospital. After initially triage the duty doctors prescribed x-rays. The friend doctor seeing there was rush himself started pushing the brother’s stretcher for X-ray room. Every one knows the doctor. As soon as he opened x-ray room door the technician seeing the face of the doctor said “Hello doctor, you are coming”. He was a friendly doctor amongst staff too. The technician came forward and as soon as he saw the face of patient, according to the doctor the technicians wording were “Oh, again a Pakistani”. Those who go to Banks, post offices and offices like these when present their Papers on counters and tell they staff that they were local Arab nationals, the staff then and there reminds them “you only hold Passport, you are not national”. Similar thing as in Sindh is “son of the soil” terminology. This is why I remarked that these people can be given dual nationality as these people knowing well their actual position amongst the arabs keep all their savings in Pakistan. They know they have to run one day.

This is not the case in Europe. In Europe they have full rights as far as government departments are concerned. Pakistanis who got European nationalities and are permanently settled there in practice have not much thinking about Pakistan. There only intent is once in 2/4 years visit to relatives or demanding plots in Islamabad and Karachi. Now very soon OPF is announcing plots in sectors E-12 & E-13 in Islamabad see how dual nationalities would apply. Their all savings are in Europe. They do not trust keeping these in Pakistan and to some good extent I accept this is due to our own policies as they are afraid of when any new levy, fee, tax or reduction in profits or new condition would become effective on their savings in Pakistan without their knowledge.

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You are generalizing a bit too much. Most people I know in NYC only become US citizens just to get US passport for traveling freely. Getting another nationality doesn’t mean one is less Pakistani. My wife has relatives in Egypt going back 400 years but they still feel more Greek than Arabs. You need to take your head out of your ass.

:jhanda:

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*Originally posted by shahnazpk: *

*it is vital to award double nationality then those living in middle east this be given. Reason I have already explained those who get nationality in Arab countries though in office files are treated at par with Arabs but practically are not. *

In other countries, citizens can avail facilities not afforded to non citizens, one of the mosyt basic ones is the right to vote, whicdh u dont have without citizenship. so dual nationalities

*This is why I remarked that these people can be given dual nationality as these people knowing well their actual position amongst the arabs keep all their savings in Pakistan. They know they have to run one day. *

I dont understand the logic here, you are saying that these people keep their savings in pakistan and then note that they do it because they know they have to leave middle east one day. Now do you think that when they have citizenship and know that they can stay there permanently that they will still be keeping their accounts in Pakistan?

**This is not the case in Europe. In Europe they have full rights as far as government departments are concerned.

I cant say for all europe but I know its not the case in every country. heck in Uk your kid cant be a citizen if he was born there if u are not a citizen. people from other countries can note what they see as services that citizens can get and non citizens can not.

*Pakistanis who got European nationalities and are permanently settled there in practice have not much thinking about Pakistan. There only intent is once in 2/4 years visit to relatives or demanding plots in Islamabad and Karachi. *

What is your assumption based on? how do u know that they are not thinking about Pakistan? there are newspapers, magazines, cultural groups, groups working as lobby groups to represent pakistan's interests.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
yes all pakistanis living abroad are ghaddar, ihsaan faramosh, tota chasham, selfish people. shame shame

and people living in Pakistan are all patriotic, and do everything that is beneficial to the country. hip hip hooray
[/QUOTE]

wot is this all abt?