I think the whole thread is a bit invalid. Lets start at the definition, middle class. What is middle class? What percentage of total population of Pak,Ind,Bdesh is middle class (MC)?
[ul]
[li]Clearly if percentage of MC in india is greater than MC in pakistan and pakistanis have "subjectively" better living standard (once again whatever that means)[/li][LIST]
[li]Then pakistan has unjust wealth distribution. Clearly this may be the cause if such a disparity in living standard between Pak and Ind exists.[/li][LIST]
[li]we do know that india was able to dismantle its feudal/landlord setup soon after independence where as in pakistan it is still intact.[/li][li]Also, majority of pakistanis live in punjab which is blessed with a very fertile land as in E punjab. However, percentage of punjabis in Ind is very small compared to the total population of ind.[/li][li]Punjabis, i.e. the majority of pakistanis have vast tract of thinly populated land full of natural resources, e.g. balochistan.[/li][/ul]
[li].... List can go on and on and on[/li][li]Also, as some one has mentioned in this thread, it can be life styles due to cultural or personal differences. I can vouch for the differences as i have friends who i know make** less** than me but all their cars are german luxury imports. I personally dont, as i dont believe on wasting $$ on highly depreciating assets, i.e. cars. As long as I have a relatively new and reliable car i am ok. But if u were an outside observer, u might deduce that the friends are better off![/li][/LIST]
[li]I have avoided afgh and bdesh because their living standard is clearly below that of pak and ind.[/li][li]Also, the sample size is too small and too biased (both pak and ind guppies) to have any meaningful deduction.[/li][/LIST]
1- not everyone lives like a first class citizen in Pakistan, we dont have stellar record with minorities, ethnic or religious. and how much money you have matters immensely, the availability of justice, speed of justice for the common person is pretty bad. elite have it easy, professionals and middle class is mixed, usually okay unless they get in some issue with ghunday badmaash. for lower middle classes, its an even larger issue.
2- when ppl want to go live in your words as third class citizens in another country than first class citizens in Pakistan. It may be pointing out that there are some problems.
the construction workers in middle east being abused, living in worker hostels, living away from family, what are they doing it for? for an ability to support their family. If we as a nation can not give people a way to learn and earn a living and move ahead in life, isnt that a basic issue.
criticism, where it is warranted, should exist, whether it is by someone sitting in model town, lyari, tokyo or dubai..
dont know what u are trying to say.a worker in middleeast dosent goes around on online forums and critisize his country and he is not a third class citizen cause he is on a work visit.third class citizens are those who have emmigrated and acquired foreign nationality.
dont know what u are trying to say.a worker in middleeast dosent goes around on online forums and critisize his country and he is not a third class citizen cause he is on a work visit.third class citizens are those who have emmigrated and acquired foreign nationality.
Third class citizens are those who live in a country without much rights, for examples workers in middle-east don't have much rights compared to the ones who immigrate to lets say UK/US/Canada. "work visa" people in US have far more rights than "work visa" people in middle-east. Transferring visa ("kafeel" in Saudi Arabia) from one employer to another is one of the biggest PIA.
Worker in middle-east is unlikely to criticize Pakistan because he hasn't seen what he can get. Though he is very likely to criticize lack of basic facilities like water, electricity etc. But then how many of those workers have luxury to spend time online.
Third class citizens are those who live in a country without much rights, for examples workers in middle-east don't have much rights compared to the ones who immigrate to lets say UK/US/Canada. "work visa" people in US have far more rights than "work visa" people in middle-east. Transferring visa ("kafeel" in Saudi Arabia) from one employer to another is one of the biggest PIA.
Worker in middle-east is unlikely to criticize Pakistan because he hasn't seen what he can get. Though he is very likely to criticize lack of basic facilities like water, electricity etc. But then how many of those workers have luxury to spend time online.
u got it all wrong.
workers in middleeast are not forced through nude scanners.
thirdclass citizen wo hai jo khudi baych deta hai.
khudi na bech,
garibi me naam peda kar !
Re: Do any of you Paks in the West have close friends from India, BDesh, Afghanistan?
stupid thread because it insinuates that if our relatives are better off than those of other countries we should be proud of being pakistani? this should clealy come from a person who doesn't know that there is much more to life than having relatives who can afford to buy fruit. (eating fruit or meat which i know afghanis do more than average pakistani doesn't make them better or us worse). india is clearly ahead of us in every aspect. the reason for that is that is more tolerant and politically more stable whereas we change goverments with military dictatorships once every ten years!
india is clearly ahead of us in every aspect. !
Yeah sure and I am Bill Clintons great great grand daddy...
u got it all wrong. workers in middleeast are not forced through nude scanners. thirdclass citizen wo hai jo khudi baych deta hai.
khudi na bech, garibi me naam peda kar !
I agree that going thru body scanners is degrading but guess what thousands of Americans go thru the same scanners as Pakistanis, so going by that logic Pakistanis are equal to Americans?
Ask Pakistanis living in Saudi Arabia how much welcome/respect they get by local population though I would suggest that you don't ask them ;)
stupid thread because it insinuates that if our relatives are better off than those of other countries we should be proud of being pakistani? this should clealy come from a person who doesn't know that there is much more to life than having relatives who can afford to buy fruit. (eating fruit or meat which i know afghanis do more than average pakistani doesn't make them better or us worse). india is clearly ahead of us in every aspect. the reason for that is that is more tolerant and politically more stable whereas we change goverments with military dictatorships once every ten years!
u r an indian and u made this nick just to reply in this thread.lol
I agree that going thru body scanners is degrading but guess what thousands of Americans go thru the same scanners as Pakistanis, so going by that logic Pakistanis are equal to Americans?
Ask Pakistanis living in Saudi Arabia how much welcome/respect they get by local population though I would suggest that you don't ask them ;)
i have lived in saudia for 3 years and it was same as living in Pakistan so i dont what you are trying to say.
Yeah sure and I am Bill Clintons great great grand daddy...
lol
i have lived in saudia for 3 years and it was same as living in Pakistan so i dont what you are trying to say.
I have lived in Saudi Arabia, Jeddah to be specific and have seen insults/humiliation of our fellows at the hands of Saudis, Saudi police/immigration etc. We are called "rafeeq" while Philipinos and others are "siddiq".
u r an indian and u made this nick just to reply in this thread.lol
bhai concentrate on my points don't fantasise over my origin!
Yeah sure and I am Bill Clintons great great grand daddy...
no you are clearly not bill clintons grand daddy
but what is wrong with being honest and saying the truth? why is it hard to acknowledge something which is painfull? I guess a true assessment of our problems is the first step towards bringin positive changes to our lives and our country.
Re: Do any of you Paks in the West have close friends from India, BDesh, Afghanistan?
Very nice thread :k:
It’s true i live in a crowded house with many other nationalities and not one of them is any better off than me.
To be honest i’m the most educated out of all of them, becuase Pakistani system is so close to the UK education system. The Burmese fellow is the worst among us he is always dreaming of better things but i feel sorry for the guy, This other fellow is from Thailand a country that has a lot of GDP but his hometown in the north is very poor too. He left there to find work here in the UK and his country might be richer but he assures us the people never see no money there either.
Re: Do any of you Paks in the West have close friends from India, BDesh, Afghanistan?
Its all relative, depending on the company you have.
The differences I gather between Pakistan and South India (Tamil Nadu) from my South Indian friend are:
A lot of emphasis on getting children educated with free education from government and encouragement at all levels.
In spite of high literacy rate, they prefer to keep to traditional life style and those wanting to 'modernise' migrate abroad or Mumbai etc.
The military does not interfere in civilian life. The cantonment areas are on fringes of cities and most of them are 1930s style basic structures. There are strict bright lines between civilians and military.
Those who prefer to stay in their home town despite of financially lucrative opportunities abroad are not looked down upon as 'bewakoof key bachay'.
Serving the people is a source of pride for many (not most) people and more importantly government (despite rampant corruption) encourages honest, competent government servants.
Health and transport, although very basic in terms of facilities, are really cheap or free.
Both of his parents are competent surgeons, served in government facilities all their lives and were able to build a house in outskirts of Chennai only after reaching 60 years of age. Yes, their house is not as grand as houses our surgeons in Lahore/Karachi have, but they are a happy satisfied family.
... india is clearly ahead of us in every aspect.
yeah, including crap!
no you are clearly not bill clintons grand daddy
but what is wrong with being honest and saying the truth? why is it hard to acknowledge something which is painfull? I guess a true assessment of our problems is the first step towards bringin positive changes to our lives and our country.
Ya I agree with ya, they are sure ahead of us in mass starvation deaths onlee and that is just one attribute that counts.. you should get out more often ------ and I am Shri bill clintons great great grand daddy. :)
Thank you.
The purpose of this thread is manyfold.
-
Recognize that Pakistani system (however bad it is) has rewarded its middle class much much better than any country in the region.
-
If we recognize this simple fact, and appreciate the good aspect of our system, then we can move to the future with love and appreciation for our country.
-
When love replaces anger, our brain helps us “Produce” things and brings down the anger and frustration in the society.
-
With strong appreciation and praise, overseas Pakistanis can hold their head high, and do positive things in their host countries.
And thus Pakistan will progress.
However if do not appreciate what Allah swt has already given us in Pakistan, Allah’s wrath will be upon us and we’ll become lawless region not too different from the Islamict jannat of Afghanistan.
I have lived in Saudi Arabia, Jeddah to be specific and have seen insults/humiliation of our fellows at the hands of Saudis, Saudi police/immigration etc. We are called "rafeeq" while Philipinos and others are "siddiq".
pata nahi yar mai to waha 3 saal raha.arabi say achay loog app ko kahi milain gai hi nai.
sir rafeeq agar app ko woh kehtay hai to is mai masla kai hai app ko.rafeeq koi gali thori hai?mughay bhi kai defa logo nai rafeeq kaha mai to zera bhi nai bura laga.bra lagnay wali baat hi nai hai.aik to wo app ko 3 3 guna ziada salary dain opper say woh app ko rafeeq kahay to app mind ker jai,yeh achi baat hai.
agar app itnay moody hain to app waha kaam hi na kerain.zabardasti thori onho nai app kaha hai yaha kaam kero.app Pakistan mai 3 guna kam salary pai kaam ker lain.jaha app 3 rotia khatay hain waha 2 kha lain.koi masla nai.
pata nahi yar mai to waha 3 saal raha.arabi say achay loog app ko kahi milain gai hi nai. sir rafeeq agar app ko woh kehtay hai to is mai masla kai hai app ko.rafeeq koi gali thori hai?...
OK if rafeeq is not a gali,
Then go over to a Saudi during your next trip to SA, and dare to call him "ya rafiq".
OK.
Then if you live to tell the story, then please come back and post your pictures.
If your pictures are any better than those of Tiger wood's (after he got special treatment from his wife), we will believe you that rafeeq is no gali.
Got it?