Re: Re: Re: Re: Divison Of punjab
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*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Queer, Delhi was partitioned off from Punjab during the Muslim invasions and set up as a administrative capital. If Delhi is not Punjabi then what is it?
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are you a chauhan?
Re: Divison Of punjab
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*Originally posted by Putt_sardara_da: *
.....The fact that Muslims and Sikhs cannot live together due their differences. .....
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A true putt (son) of Sardar will not spew hateful garbage that happens to be the way of Mullahs.
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*Originally posted by Putt_sardara_da: *
......Sikhs owned about 64% of that land in undivided punjab even though they were only 8% of the total population of punjab. ..
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Some of the Sikh villages did produce more per acre, thus making them prosperous compared to the surrounding villages owned by Muslim Jatts. But your numbers are way off the mark. Pre-1947 Punjab had 5 divisions, with most of the rural areas dominated by 60% Punjabis of Muslim faith. The followers of Hinduism were 15% and Sikhs as %25 (and not 8% as you said).
Punjab had a separation of labor as practiced for centuries where Muslim Punjabis almost exclusively tilled the land, while a tiny Hindu population provided services such as retail and whole sale grain business. The advent of Sikhism brought a third group in Punjab that did both the tilling, and the retail + wholesale business. Sikhs were generally admired for the jolly nature and tough work ethics.
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*Originally posted by Putt_sardara_da: *
..... During 1947 an average Jatt was fed up with the game of politics being played by the elite muslims and hindus where they both ensured they got the best out of it. ...
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Not true. Looking at 1947 is not enough, Punjab history starts further back in the past.
Anyway Sikh elite were very much part and parcel of the politics. However they always had a soft corner for Muslims. Sardar Baldev Singh in the Delhi, and Giyani Kartar Singh in Lahore would back Muslim League on several issue.
The scheme for dividing Punjab started immediately after the well-deserved death of Tehrike Khilafat. Main proponent for this Punjab’s partition was a Lahori Congress leader Lala Lajpat Rai. No Sikh openly talked about dividing Punjab. Even the most idiotic Akali Master Tara Singh was against the division of Punjab.
The reasons were simple. Sikhs had much more to gain in United Punjab as opposed to getting relegated to mostly rural Eastern Punjab.
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*Originally posted by Putt_sardara_da: *
..... Many jatts knew that after partition their future and their children's future would be uncertain in an Hindu Dominated india. So someone had to pay the price of Sikh's fall and unfortunatley, muslims were the unlucky targets.
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Well the unfortunate killing in 1947 Punjab could have been avoided using two simple steps.
The idea by Jinnah that Governor Jenkins should get more troops for protection. 5000 soldiers allocated for protecting a vast state like Punjab were not enough.
Jinnah should have stopped the very stupid and half-a$$ statements by Punjab Muslim league leader Shaukat.
The two steps never happened because Patel a Southie Banya was the home minister and he didn't allow more troops (and there are several reasons for that). Patel's original plan was to stop the flow of Indian civil servants from going to Pakistan. He had some Akali Sikhs target the Lahore bound train. Off course the mass killing of each other by Muslims and Sikhs was much more than what Patel ever dreamed off.
Punjabi Muslims especially in Lahore followed Shaukat and started killing even those Sikhs who really wanted to stay in Pakistan. These were the Sikhs who were more loyal to a Muslim dominated Punjab than any two-bit Mullahtic like Bukhari. This killing was then resulted in mass-Muslim killing in Amritsar and Jalandhar.
p.s. Jatts of Muslim as well Sikh origion were stupid not to foresee the designs of Patel. Unfortunately they sat around smoking hukkah and allowed anarchist Mullahs and Akalis bring death and destruction to their land.
Divison of punjab
Hi antiobl,
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A true putt (son) of Sardar will not spew hateful garbage that happens to be the way of Mullahs.
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A true son of sardar has nothing against muslim but he knows that history has taught us that Muslims and Sikhs are two flip sides of a coin and can never exist together. I dont have any hatred towards muslims. I respect their culture, language and their relgion. But sikhs culture, relgion is completely at odds with muslims and so to insure the betterement of both these communties, they must live seprately.
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Some of the Sikh villages did produce more per acre, thus making them prosperous compared to the surrounding villages owned by Muslim Jatts.
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I was not aware of the fact that there are muslim jatts too. I always thought that muslims are Rajputs or Arains. Anewayz i am a Randhawa and my ancestors migrated from lahore to amrtisar.
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The reasons were simple. Sikhs had much more to gain in United Punjab as opposed to getting relegated to mostly rural Eastern Punjab.
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Yes you are right. Similarly the muslims were aware of the fact that they have much to gain froma a divided punjab since when all the sikhs would be driven out all the fertile land of lahore and gujranwala would be under muslims.
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Punjabi Muslims especially in Lahore followed Shaukat and started killing even those Sikhs who really wanted to stay in Pakistan. These were the Sikhs who were more loyal to a Muslim dominated Punjab than any two-bit Mullahtic like Bukhari. This killing was then resulted in mass-Muslim killing in Amritsar and Jalandhar.
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I once talked to an old warraich jatt sikh. He told me that most of the killing of sikhs in pakistan was carried out by migrating mohajirs. He told me that the muslims in his village protected them and made arrangment to help them cross the border.
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p.s. Jatts of Muslim as well Sikh origion were stupid not to foresee the designs of Patel. Unfortunately they sat around smoking hukkah and allowed anarchist Mullahs and Akalis bring death and destruction to their land.
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To be honest with you this is how i feel about it. Irrespective of what has happened during parition, Jinnah and other muslim politicains have provided the muslims a safe haven where the future muslim generations can control their destiny. Similalry Hindu ploiticians like Nehru and gandhi have made sure that hindus will never have to suffer for their ill actions. On the other hand everhting seems to be at odd for a Sikh. He wil continue to sttruggle which relfects his history from the time when ahmed abdali attacked amrtisar and killed sikhs to the time when indra gandhi ordered the troops to destory harmindar sahib.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Divison Of punjab
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*Originally posted by queer: *
delhi is more like an extension of UP culturally and linguistically - heartland of hindi and urdu, panchewers, bhaiyyaland.
i'm curious though, at what time frame was delhi a part of a punjabi ruled kingdom?
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Queer, I disagree. Your telling me that Gurgaon and Rohtak aren't Punjabi? It's funny that you mention the refugee population, when it is the Hindu Punjabis of Haryana who prefer hindi claim it as their own. At the very best, the UP argument is flimsy as it would be on the border of Punjab (Haryana) and the UP.
Like I said earlier, the reason Delhi has lost it's original Punjabi roots is because the Muslims and the Brits made it to be the capital or dar-ul-hukumat. Delhi doesnt need to be a part of Punjabi ruled kingdom to be considered Punjabi.
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*Originally posted by Putt_sardara_da: *
Hi Rajputfury,
I agree with with you. The only way Sikhs and Muslims can learn to respect each other is by learning more about each other and to accept each other's differences.
Ps- Please throw some light on Muslim Jatts and Rajputs since i dont know anything about them.
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Glad to hear it. There should be no hatred between the Sikhs and Muslims. Our shared history may be bloody, but that doesn't mean the future should be the same. We have Pakistan to safeguard our interests, whereas Sikhs are living in a truncated Punjab....yet they have prospered immensely both within India and abroad.
More Punjabis have killed other Punjabis than any other ethnic group has dared to touch the Punjabi nation. It is really the lowest point in the Punjabi nation, whose ancestors preached for peace and brotherhood, to be engaging in this senseless hatred. To the Punjabis of India, I say this: You are proud to be Indian and we are proud to be Pakistani, but please do not shove this pride in our face..We also have a heritage that we can be proud of, without spewing venom of politics, only then can true progress be made.