disturbing .....

[Ex-Guppan]

Re: disturbing .....

@roadrunner

...... They can try and practise their rules, if they are illegal then they would be breaking the law. Jirgas only are rules for tribes, my point was they have no legitimacy in the Pakistan legal system. Corruption might occur, but I wouldnt know about this. I'm sure you can enlighten us.

About Jirga rules. We'll be fooling ourselves if we believe that jirga cannot take any action against the law. There's so much that goes on and we only get to know little bit that get publicised. We all know how effective PK police system is and how many cases from that region go to court, challenging jirga decisions!

*Can you give a link to this case? *

I did not read this case on a web-site. I was personally present in PK at that time and it got a lot of publicity by human rights groups. Am sure you can find out if you explore some Pakistani NGOs database working on human/women rights. I think Shirkat Gah and/or Aurat Foundation keep data bases of organizations and issues dealt with. The killing occurred in Lahore in the office of Asma Jahangir, where the lady took refuge and they were going to fight her case. It must be around 1998-1999. The girl's father was from Peshawar and he was President of Chamber of Commerce (NWFP? I guess)

**Pakistan honour killing bill passed* *

Pakistan's Senate has approved a bill which strengthens the law against so-called honour killings. **The death penalty will now be the maximum punishment for crimes in which victims are killed if judged to have brought dishonour on the family. (BBC)

I am so glad President Musharraf took that step. No Political government could ever take that step, fearing the loss of political clout.

Zina is an offence for men as well as women. You agree? ** Therefore, in a court case, if a woman is accused of zina, to find her guilty, there must be a man guilty of it too. **Do you disagree with this?

You are asking my opinion about what it should be. I was questioning the fact, what happens in practice, can you quote some court cases handled?

[uberalles]

Re: disturbing .....

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

At any rate, the government must take drastic action against such jirgas.

Starting with a substantial cash reward for anyone who informs the authorities about the existence of a jirga; and the members of such a jirga should be sentenced to a mandatory life sentence.

Setting up or participating in a jirga should be punished as treason precisely because it undermines the authority of the state

the above is worth repeating. THANK YOU.:)

[roadrunner]

Re: disturbing .....

@Larki-NY

You are asking my opinion about what it should be. I was questioning the fact, what happens in practice, can you quote some court cases handled?

I can give you conviction numbers.

The report says that more than 473 incidents of honour killing were reported from Sindh, 337 from Punjab, 129 from Balochistan and 76 from NWFP during 2005. Those killed included 563 married women, 75 unmarried women, 373 men and six children.

In 380 such cases the perpetrators were never nabbed. In most of the cases, the killers were close relatives of the victims. The report says that 146 married women were killed by real brothers, 240 by husbands, 60 by in laws, 11 by real sisters, two by stepsons, one by stepbrother, one by former husband, one by mother and 71 by other relatives. Whereas newspaper reports about unmarried women show that fathers were the perpetrators in 49 cases, paternal uncles in 33 cases, real brothers in 16 cases and real sister in one case.
(Daily Times)

Total crimes = 473 + 337 + 129 + 76 = 1015

380 cases, the perpetrators were not convicted. So nearly 70% of these cases someone was convicted for.

As for Zina, if you read the Hudood Ordinance, you'll find it refers to men and women. You probably cannot find individual cases for the same reason most agencies dont report the fact that men are also honour killed as well as women - gender biased reporting.

As an example, you wont find much in a good light about it, but the following example of a man claiming thousands of other men have been booked under the Zina laws, which of course you wont hear about, and if it was not for the Christian slant on this, you definitely would not hear about it.

Michael Javed, then president of APMA claimed that since 1986, 2,000-2,500 Christians in Sindh and nearly 5,000 in Punjab province had been charged under Hudood Ordinances. Javed said that these were booked by police on false charges of* adultery**, kidnapping and violating prohibition. *

A more specific charge of male-related adultery charges would be that of Shakoor Mai - the only reason you hear this is because of the attention of the associated Mukhtar Mai case.

A comment by the following website admits to many men being convicted of Zina, but you wont find it mentioned on most websites.

Over the years, the judgements passed by courts have often overstepped this fine line between the two offences. **This definition of zina has led to a series of cases where both women and men have been falsely implicated on the pretext of not being validly married to each other.* In the case of void marriages, the cohabitation of couples is taken as a "confession" of zina. The most notorious case is that of Mohammad Sarwar and Shahida Parveen (NLR 1988 (SD) FSC 188.*

• I'll post links soon as I am able to.

[retroguy02]

Re: disturbing .....

jahiliat prevails in our country lets admit it ppl and hope it stops.. pray pray pray!

[armughal]

Re: disturbing .....

^ the word is jahalat, not jahiliyat....

[Asif2000]

Re: disturbing .....

@retroguy02

jahiliat prevails in our country lets admit it ppl and hope it stops.. pray pray pray!

Why are you reopening decade old threads everywhere?