^ rvikz, you will go to hell, i believe.
I did say in the post, 'i believe'... so yes i agree it is a matter of faith..
i dont deny that it is. :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS: *
^ rvikz, you will go to hell, i believe.
I did say in the post, 'i believe'... so yes i agree it is a matter of faith..
i dont deny that it is. :)
[/QUOTE]
i dont believe god balckmail us to be" loyal "to him. god is not jealous women
mystical miss, you are a misguided brainwashed idiot, i believe.
did the "i believe" make it any less offensive? i dont think so. there is something called tolerance, and it is sad that quite a lot of "religious" muslims seem to know nothing about respect.
^queer, no if you believe that, thats your problem, but it's good you told me..
im sorry if ive caused any offence.
now answer my questions plz..
rvikz,, ok.. :)
misty miss,
you may deny it, but muslims are the first to take offence, if someone else's belief went against their faith. salman rushie is just one recent example.
and when you people are so easily offended by lack of respect for your beliefs from others, why be so offensive yourself all the time - condemning others to hell, calling them degrading names like kafir?
queerio, my brother ji in humanity, rvikz asked a question and i replied accordingly..
this thread isnt about muslims or islam,, so plz dont derail it.
start a new one.
What i said in my other post about my beliefs was part of the discussion. Please read carefully.
Misty miss,
it is very relevent. because you cant expect to learn nought about hinduism when you are stuck with beliefs like "they are all going to hell". i didnt see Ayatollahs run to Rushdie to teach him true islam for his beliefs, they wanted him dead.
i for one wouldnt waste my breath explaining vedanta to someone stuck up with prejudices.
queer, upto you if you wana answer those questions or not...
but you know you can start a thread with all those questions and comments youve made regarding rushdie and all to get better replies..:)
i'll repeat my questions:
So your saying Jesus is not treated like a hindu god, but is considered a god? And you would bow down to him and worship him?
Whats the difference between Jesus who according to christians was crusified, and Krishna who according to hindus was a hero?
If you say they are both bowed down to and seen as gods, then how is the 'treatment' different?
Your saying there are no activities which are considered as sin, so how do you reach karma, considering the concept of good and bad isnt there..
And what happens say in your third life, youre born as a cat, how do you try to reach karma and get out of the spiral?Its just a bit confusing for me, as i believe. it is the truth, there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
But i dont worship Muhammad(pbuh), because he was a man, neither Jesus. So i just wana ask how do you worship a man? What constitutes worship in hinduism?
Do the Idols represent the a certain aspect of the 'One' God? or are they worshiped merely as Gods?
Also, do hindus believe people of other beliefs can get to heaven or reincarnate to a higher level in the next world?
Why a Muslim should convert to Hinduism?
There are multiple issues on the above question.
1. Who is a Muslim?
2. Why she/he should convert ?
3.Why Hinduism?
1.
Muslim is a person by birth or by choice became a follower of Islam.
Islam is a set of beliefs propounded by Mohammad who claimed the angel Gibriel told him the Quran, the word of God. The compilation of such verses from Mohammad's mouth became Quran as it exists today. As said in Quran itself, there are two versions of Quran, the one exists in heaven and another that exists in earth. The one exists in earth is compiled by Khalifa Uthman.
Muslims are told these things from their birth till they die. Quran and the story of Mohammad (called Hadiths) are expounded day in day out in the Muslim media. Even scientists are writing that Quran has scientific truths that an illiterate Mohammad could not have known. And their writings are constantly published in the media as the proof of "God's Work".
Islam was spread by both sword and teachings. Miracle workers called sufi saints spread Islam in places where other religions like Hinduism reigned. Muslim Kings captured vast areas of earth and converted the people into Islam. Except in India, wherever Muslim kings ruled, it became Islamic. Even in India, Bengal, Kashmir, Sindh, Punjab, Afghanistan became majority Muslim due to the forcible conversion of locals into Muslims. In other places, where Muslim kings were not there, the sufi saints and Muslim preachers converted the local people into Muslims.
History is history. Some of the forefathers of the current generation converted by preaching and some others converted by force. There is no need to go back to that and feel bitter about it. Many Hindus feel bitter about this. They view the Muslims are brothers who started fighting Hindus just because the remaining did not convert to Islam. And Muslims think that Hindus are still in old "polytheist" ways and they need to convert to Islam.
Make no mistake about this. Muslims strongly feel that their religion is the correct one and Hinduism is primitive religion. And Hindus feel that Hinduism is a "natural" religion which didnot have a human founder. And Many hindus beleive that all the rivers lead to the same ocean and hence there is no need to fight over which river to take to reach the ocean.
- Why should a Muslim convert? Taking an objective view of the history, we see that every religion arises out of necessity of the times. And humans have an uncanny ability to swim with the times. Those who adjust and live with the times survive and those who refuse to accept the times, they die. Those who accept the times and adopt to the environment survive to the next generation. Same is the case with religions and ideas. Why there is no one supporting a flat earth society? When the world did not accept that the earth is round, if you had said earth is round, you would probably be called a madman and probably die in a mental asylam too. When the world can be seen from a satellite, there is no need to theorize about the roundness of the earth. It is round. We can see it. Once we see it there is no confusion. Anyone who still thinks that earth is flat IS a madman. And he would probably die in a mental asylam too. You can say it is a survival of the concepts. Any concept that refutes the current human knowledge is doomed to be a failure and the people upholding that will probably be condemned as well. On the other hand there are some successful concepts that are time tested and time honoured. The people who uphold those ideas live longer and live prosperously. They pass on their knowledge to their children and to their children and the community prospers. One such concept is respecting the ideas of others. It may look self contradictory, but looking closely, we see the obvious thing about that. One may argue, if i respect the idea of the other person, what will happen to my ideas? My ideas may not receive that much importance. But looking closely, we see that by respecting the other person's ideas, we kind of make the other person respect our ideas. By making "respect for other person's opinion" as the cardinal principle of the society, we redeem everyone in the society. That is the bottomline of civilization. When we call somebody "civilized" we assume that person is able to argue an issue without becoming angry about that issue. "Civilized" is a two person work. There cannot be one person talking civilized and another person attacking him with a club. There should be a basis on which both the persons can talk to each other. Let us assume that one person's religion says "Respect everyone and never use violence". And another person's religion says "Never have friendship with anyone who does not beleive in our religion. And kill him wherever you find him". Where is the common ground on which both the person's can talk to each other? Often I am faced with this question. Does a terrorist have human rights? A terrorist is one who uses terror and random violence and disrespect of other people's human rights to further his aim. When he is captured, he pleads that to the captor, "I am a terrorist. I terrorize people. That is what i do. But you are a respector of human rights and respect everyone and you should not use violence. So you should not harm me" What should the captor do? The reality is lot different from the hypothetical scenerio i presented. When the terrorist is on prowl, he makes the other person also little bit terrorist. Because, the other person's survival as a human being depends on it. Whenver he finds this terrorist, most likely he will kill this terrorist than to reason with him. And reasoning with him is futile. And his reasoning is based on different set of rules for both the people. This is the same case with the nations, religions and ideas. Certain civilizations can survive only if the terrorists are cleaned from the society. If everyone takes up arms against everyone else for the difference of opinion, then the future of humanity is at stake. Our human body contains so many cells. All the cells are identical in core but the functions are different. The dna inside neuron is 100% no different from the dna of a skin cell. But the cells do different functions. But also in our body there are so many dfferent organisms live. Small bacteria in our intestines and in verious parts of the body provide benevolent work. They kind of live in symbiosis. Some are good parasites. And they are needed for the body. But when another virus which is not helpful for the body arrives inside a human body, there could be only one answer. Either the virus dies or the human body dies. If the virus dies, the human body will remember the virus. And will attack if the virus strikes again. If the human body dies, the virus also dies along with that. (Except when the virus is spread to another humanbody before or after the human body dies) A civilization also is like a human body. When the good ideas from one civilization comes to another civilization, both the civilizations benefit. If bad ideas comes to another civilization, then that civilization falls ill. It is not very difficult to see which civilization is prospering and which civilization is falling ill and which civilization is internally collapsing. Again, there is a need for talking to Muslims. We have Buddhists of Burma and laos who are inward looking and closed societies. They neither inflict pain on others nor other people inflict pain on them. The influence of Communism in Cambodia had produced Pol Pot who wanted to created a perfect society and went on to kill 1 million Cambodians in trying to reach a society like that. He destroyed Television sets, radios, any trace of industrial activity, and knowledge associated with western civilization or western industrial products. He killed all the engineers and doctors and destroyed beurocracy. But he was not invading other countries and trying to impose his rules on others. But the Islamic ideology is different. The pure interpretors of Islamic ideology say that Television sets, Music tapes are to be banned by the islamic state. And the interpretors who study Quran and Sunnah for many years come out of the schools and insist that the whole world is to be converted into Islamic state. And they teach these things to the people who come to mosques looking for sprituality. So, in one way, islam is standing against modernity. It is apt to remember what Turkey did to Mullahs. The General Kemal Ataturk who was a great turkish patriot, put all the mullahs in one ship and sent them to Mecca on a pilgrimage and bombed the ship to kill all the Mullahs. Now Turkish nation is the most progressed nation among the islamic countries. But the problem is that right now the new breed of Mullahs in Turkey who are threatening the nation in the name of Islam. Since the people did not convert to some other religion, the people continue to teach the islamic teachings to the children and the children carry the burden again. That is why the muslims need to convert out of Islam. You may think that my child is in US and noway my boy is going to become a terrorist or my girl is going to become a fourth wife of an old man. But the pervasive internet is going to address your boy as he identifies himself as a Muslim. Even if the current generation is brilliant and you have taught the values of life and respect for everyone's opinion, what about the children of your children? Before that, we have to talk about God. God is the creator of this infinite universe. There may be even multiple universes. There are million and million civilizations possibly living in million and million planets like our earth. Why on the world that he should ask Muslims to kill the non believers? Can the great lord of the universe be fully described in just one book? Is it possible for anyone to think that he could know the mind of the Lord of the universe by reading one book? Would he be personally angry at someone not worshipping him? would the God limit Himself in such a way that he could never speak again to another human for all eternity to come? Will not he be magnanimous that he can be praised and worshipped in many different ways? Sufis understood these things. Though they were muslims and converted people from many different religions into Muslims, they spoke about becoming one with the Lord, and talked about realizing Lord in our soul. The sufi teachings are essentially the knowledge gained by the Muslims from the Hindus and spread inthe Muslim world. For that work, the sufis were often skinned alive by the Muslim Kings and Muslim Mullahs. Ultimately, it is the traditional understanding of Quran which won the battle again and again. Because Quran is not ambiguous in its calls to kill the infidels. And that is what is being read by every Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh and Jain in the world. And certainly he is going to think that Islam is a violent religion and Muslims are violent people. And the things happening in the world just prove that true. And when the critical point breaks and other religious people's tolerance cross the limits, there would be a massacre and that would not check whether one Muslim is a namesake Muslim or enlightened Muslim. The world already had started identifying a Muslim with a terrorist. And that is a danger sign. Sooner the Muslim convert, it is better for him and for his children.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gpsy: *
"2. Is the caste system part of the faith or a social construct?"
[/QUOTE]
When the white race came from Easern Europe or Northern Asia... known as the Arians... they ruled India a few thousands ago and they made all non-white people (that's mine and your ancesters) second class citizens... when they left, it became part of the Indian culture i.e. the rich thought they were better than the poor like the white people thought they were superior than the non-white people.
In India.. this racist myth is still practiced widely to this day... despite people are of the same colour.
islam says all races are equal before allha but islam and muslims
as humans are different with human weaknesses. noway you can
say muslims are free of ethnic and racial and class prejeudice.
even among africans tribal rivalry exists in rawanda.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniDragon: *
When the white race came from Easern Europe or Northern Asia... known as the Arians... they ruled India a few thousands ago and they made all non-white people (that's mine and your ancesters) second class citizens... when they left, it became part of the Indian culture i.e. the rich thought they were better than the poor like the white people thought they were superior than the non-white people.
In India.. this racist myth is still practiced widely to this day... despite people are of the same colour.
[/QUOTE]
I do agree the color and caste remainder effect will last for few more years.Check these when you go India
• Bahraims are not that white looking and Vegetarians
• Visahyas and not doing business, they are looking for jobs
• Sudhras are not available for menial jobs.
• Kashthriyas are not kings any more.
New trend is
Every body wants to go overseas and make money,
Every body wants to become Engineer and make money.
• Computer Engg
• Bio tech
• Politics
• Acting
These are some of new castes and they will marry same type.
Your pay check tell, you are forward caste or backward caste,
Money can make you look polite and civilized, humble, fair and lovely.
Last names are useless they don’t represent old time caste any more.
57 years of free India changed the country lot. Good luck with your Identity
Don’t get mix up.
Miss, I am no expert on Hinduism. I can hardly claim to be particularly religious and hence my responses are what in my opinion, a lay hindu (somebody who is not an atheist but isn't particularly religious) thinks and feels.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS: *
So your saying Jesus is not treated like a hindu god, but is considered a god? And you would bow down to him and worship him?
Whats the difference between Jesus who according to christians was crusified, and Krishna who according to hindus was a hero?
If you say they are both bowed down to and seen as gods, then how is the 'treatment' different?
[/QUOTE]
The difference is simply that I may not have a picture/ idol of Jesus/ Mary in my house. I would still bow my head when I cross a church/ mosque. And, if you were to ask me if I think Jesus/ Allah is a god, I would say 'yes'.
An analogy would be between my mother and my teacher. I would respect them both, but would love my mother more. You will realise that there is nothing contradictory about this.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS: *
- Your saying there are no activities which are considered as sin, so how do you reach karma, considering the concept of good and bad isnt there..
[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that there is no 'sin'. All I said was that there is nothing which is special to hinduism. All that are universally considered as wrong and evil are considered sins.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS: *
And what happens say in your third life, youre born as a cat, how do you try to reach karma and get out of the spiral?
[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I don't know. There is a view, which I think is the more dominant view, that the human form is reached after a long time. And, the multiple rebirths that are talked about are in the human form. And, how many rebirths happen depends on your score card. What else can explain why a three month old baby dies?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS: *
- Its just a bit confusing for me, as i believe. it is the truth, there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
[/QUOTE]
I have no dispute with a different view, because hinduism essentially believes in multiple paths to the same destination. There is no 'my folk' and 'your folk' business here. May god bless you.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS: *
But i dont worship Muhammad(pbuh), because he was a man, neither Jesus. So i just wana ask how do you worship a man? What constitutes worship in hinduism?
[/QUOTE]
Do you ever think of your mother/ father/ teacher/ friend/ moulvi's words which bring some moral strength to you when you are down? If you do, for that particular moment, for that part of human life, in hinduism, they are god. To me, my father's memories in moments of distress gives me the same strength and sense of peace as thinking about god does. I know pretty well that my father was/ is not god but that is the reason why hindus have no difficulty in respecting or worshipping humans. In many houses, the photographs of a dead father or mother will go along with pictures of gods in the pooja room.
The moment that I take to think about my father or god, is worship, when you silently communicate with him. Everything else is just so much flesh around the core.
Since so many of the Hindu gods have animal features like elephant, cow etc., is the religion trying to portray that the animals are superior to man?
Is it not possible that these were Prophets sent by God, like any other and when they died, people tried to make them look big and powerfull thus adding the animal features to their statues?
“Since so many of the Hindu gods have animal features like elephant, cow etc., is the religion trying to portray that the animals are superior to man?”
I think if somebody brought up as Hindu, He will not look animals as piece of food and is meant for gobbling. You will develop respect and compassion to other being.
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As some one said “The religion is only a boat that helps to cross ocean called life.”