Discussion between a Muslim and an atheist

Assalamualaikum.

Here’s something else I got as an email a while ago. It’s very long, but definitely worth reading if you have the time. Just to avoid confusion, the question is asked by the atheist, and the really long response is by the Muslim brother.

Q. I am interested in it because I am in a Religious Studies class
and I am interested in learning more. I just wanted to know your
response to this, if I am correct in saying this…

In Islam heaven is thought of as paradise of wine, women and song.
It is achieved by living a life in which, ironically, one abstains
from the things with which he or she will be rewarded in paradise.
In addition to this abstentiion, one must follow the five Pillars of
Islam.

It seems to me that the Islamic faith is a do-it-yourself proposition.

Follow this “way of life”, they say, and you will gain favor with God
and veventually achieve salvation. There is NO assurance. I would hate to
live like that. I realize that Muslims do not believe in “original sin”, but
regardless of wether or not a man is born sinful or not, would you not agree
that every man/woman is sinful? How does one pay for his/her sin?

I understand repentance. I agree with that…but it seems as though one can
NEVER do enough to win favor with God. That is why He sent his Son to die
for us. All of our sins past present and future.

There is no possibility of assurance in the Islamic faith. I think that
would be an awful way to live knowing that I was never gonna make
it…not knowing of my salvation until the “day of judgement” whether or not
I have done enough “goodworks” or prayed enough…etc.

I have asked a couple of Muslims in my class whether or not they were
for sure if they were going to “paradise” or “heaven” when they died. I have
not yet had one reply in the affirmative. Rather, they referred to the
imperfection of their lives as being a barrier to this realization.

THERE IS NO ASSURANCE IN ISLAM, BECAUSE THERE IS NO ATONEMENT, AND
SALVATIONDEPENDS WHOLLY ON THE INDIVIDUAL’S GAINING ENOUGH “MERIT”

Aslo, if I wanted to become a Muslim, I couldn’t. If Muslims think that they
are the “chosen people” then why aren’t they spreading their
faith. Do you just have to be lucky enough to be born Muslim? If a person
wants to become a Christian they can. ANYONE can become a Christian in a
matter of seconds. All they have to do is confess that Jesus Christ is who
He said He was and repent and believe…that is all a lot easier said than
done. But basically that is it. I wasn’t born Christian…or raised
Christians assert that Jesus Chrit is the only way to God because Scritpture
says, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under
heaven given to men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12) Jesus Christ said
himself
“I am the way the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father except
through me…”

He didn’t say, I am one way or a way or one truth etc…THE WAY!!!
I and the Father are ONE! Jn 5:18

I just don’t understand how anyone could be blind to these facts.
Unless they are never told. Which was me. I would just like a little
feed back..


Praise be to Allaah.

(A) We appreciate your question concerning the ideas that you have
about Islam, and we hope to discuss what you have written and correct some
of your ideas, so as to arrive at a firm conviction of the truth of the
matter.

1.What you have mentioned about the Islamic belief about Paradise, and
the >enjoyment of wine, women and song therein, falls wide of the mark. The
pleasures of Paradise are not merely physical in nature, they also include
the joy of feeling safe and secure, and of being content with God and being
close to Him. The greatest joy of all in Paradise will be seeing God, may He
be glorified and exalted. When the people of Paradise see the Holy Face of
God, they will forget all other kinds of pleasures that they have
enjoying.
There is in Paradise everything that will delight the heart and eye; no
dirty or evil talk is heard there, nor sinful speech. “No person know what
is kept hidden for them of joy as a reward for what they used to do.”
[al-Sajdah 32:17 - interpretation of the meaning]. What I am trying to say
is that the delights of Paradise are not limited to the kind you refer to in
your question. They are far greater than that.

2.You mention the idea that entrance to Paradise will only be granted
to those who heed certain prohibitions, which things they will enjoy in
Paradise in the Hereafter as a reward for avoiding it in this life.
This generalization is not correct at all. Islam is a religion which
commands action, not just abstinence. Salvation can only be attained through
fulfilling commands, not just by avoiding things that are forbidden.
Moreover, not every luxury in Paradise will consist of something that
was forbidden in this world and is now being given as a reward. Some of the
delights of Paradise will be things that were allowed in this world, such as
marriage, good fruits like pomegranate and figs, etc., drinks like milk and
honey, and so on. All of these are permitted
in this world, and will be delights to be enjoyed in Paradise. The bad
qualities of things that are forbidden in this world will not be
present in
their heavenly forms. For example, the wine of Paradise, as Allaah
tells us, causes neither ghoul (any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache,
sin, etc.) nor intoxication (see al-Saffaat 37:47). It does not rob a person
of his mental faculties, or cause headaches and stomachaches. It is quite
different from its earthly counterpart. The point I am making is that the
delights of Paradise do not consist only of allowing things that were
forbidden in this world. It is also worth pointing out that there are cases
where abstention from prohibited things will not be rewarded by being given
their equivalent
in the Hereafter, whether those prohibited things are food, drinks,
deeds or words. Poison, for example, will not be given as a luxury in
Paradise, although it is forbidden in this world. The same applies to
sodomy, incest and other things which will not be allowed in the Hereafter
although they are forbidden in this world. This matter is quite clear,
praise be to Allaah.

3.The idea of being guaranteed Paradise, and that a person’s life will
be as horrible and unbearable as you describe if he has no such guarantee,
is a misconception which itself leads to the results you mention. If you
were to say that every person has a guarantee of Paradise, this would be
utterly disastrous, because then everyone would commit all kinds of
forbidden acts, feeling safe because of this guarantee. Many of the crimes
committed by Jews and Christians have been done on the basis of this
guarantee, with documents of forgiveness from their priests. Allaah has told
us about such people (interpretation of the meaning):
“And they say, None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.' Say, Produce your proof if you are truthful.'” [al-Baqarah
2:111]

For us Muslims, Paradise is not the matter of our own desires or the
desires of anyone else, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It will not be in accordance with your desires (Muslims), nor those of the
People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians); whoever works evil will have
the recompense thereof, and he will not find any protector or helper besides
Allaah.” [al-Nisa’ 4:123]

There follows a brief summary of the Islamic view regarding a guarantee of
one’s destiny. Islam offers a guarantee to every sincere Muslim who obeys
Allaah and remains in this state of devotion until he dies, that he will
definitely enter Paradise. Allaah says in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the
meanings):

“But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall admit
them to the Gardens under which rivers flow (i.e., in Paradise), to dwell
therein forever. Allaah’s promise is the truth, and whose words can be truer
thanthose of Allaah? (Of course, none).” [al-Nisa’ 4:122]

“Allaah has promised those who believe and do deeds of righteousness,
that for them there is forgiveness and a great reward (i.e., Paradise).”
[al-Maa’idah 5:9]

“(They will enter) `Adn (Eden) Paradise (everlasting Gardens), which
the Most Beneficent (Allaah) has promised to His servants in the unseen:
verily, His promise must come to pass.” [Maryam 19:61]

“Say: `Is that (torment) better, or the Paradise of Eternity promised
to the muttaqeen (pious and righteous persons)? It will be theirs as a
reward and final destination.” [al-Furqaan 25:15]

“But those who fear Allaah and keep their duty to their Lord (Allaah),
for them are built lofty rooms, one above another, under which rivers flow
(i.e.,Paradise). (This is) the Promise of Allaah, and Allaah does not fail
in (His)
promise.” [al-Zumar 39:20]

Islam also guarantees the disbeliever who ignores the commands of
Allaah that he will definitely enter Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of
the meanings):

“Allaah has promised the hypocrites, men and women, and the
disbelievers, the Fire of Hell, therein shall they abide. It will suffice
them. Allaah has cursed
them and for them is the lasting torment.” [al-Tawbah 9:68]

“But those who disbelieve, for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither
will ithave a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall
its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!”
[Faatir 35:36]

Allaah will say to the disbelievers on the Day of Judgement
(interpretation of the meaning):

“This is Hell which you were promised! Burn therein this Day, for that
you used to disbelieve!” [Yaa-Seen 36:63-64]

Allaah will not go back on His promise to either the believers or the
disbelievers. He describes how both of them will be at the end of the
Day of Judgement (interpretation of the meaning):

“And the dwellers of Paradise will call out to the dwellers of the Fire
(saying): We have indeed found true what our Lord had promised us; have you also found true, what your Lord promised (warnings, etc.)?' They shall say,Yes.’ Then a crier will proclaim between them: `The Curse of Allaah is
on the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.).” [al-A’raaf 7:44]

Everyone who believes and does righteous deeds, and dies in this state, will
definitely enter Paradise. Everyone who disbelieves and does evil deeds, and
dies in this state, will definitely enter Hell.

One of the great guiding principles of Islam is that the believer
should tread a path between fear and hope. He should not take it for granted
that he will enter Paradise, because this will make him complacent, and he
does not know in what state he will die. Nor should he assume that he is
going to Hell, because this is despairing of the mercy of Allaah, which is
forbidden. So the believer does righteous deeds, and hopes that Allaah will
reward him for them, and he avoids evil deeds out of fear of the punishment
of
Allaah.
If he commits a sin, he repents in order to gain forgiveness and
protect himself from the punishment of Hell. Allaah forgives all sins and
accepts the repentance of those who repent. If a believer fears that the
good deeds he has sent on before him are not enough, as you suggest, then he
will increase his efforts, in fear and hope. No matter how many righteous
deeds he has sent on before him, he cannot rely on them and take them for
granted, or else he will be doomed. He keeps striving and hoping for reward,
and at the same time he fears lest his deeds be contaminated with any
element of
showing off, self-admiration, or anything that will lead to them being
rejected by Allaah. Allaah describes the believers (interpretation of
the meaning):

“_ those who give that (their charity) which they give (and also do
other good deeds) with their hearts full of fear (whether their alms and
charity,etc.) have been accepted or not), because they are sure to return to
their Lord (for reckoning).” [al-Mu’minoon 23:60]

So the believer keeps on striving, fearing and hoping, until he meets
his Lord, believing in Tawheed (Divine Unity) and doing righteous
deeds, and earns the pleasure of his Lord and Paradise. If you think about
the matter, you will realize that these are the right motives for action,
and that righteousness cannot be achieved in this life in any other way.

4.As regards what you say about original sin, this matter needs to be
approached from several angles. Firstly: The Islamic belief concerning
human sin is: the individual
bears the responsibility for his own sin; no one else should bear this
burden for him, nor should he bear the burden for anyone else. Allah says
(interpretation of the meaning):
“And no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden_”
[Faatir 35:18]. This refutes the idea of original sin. If the father commits
a sin, what fault is that of his children and grandchildren? Why should they
bear the burden of a sin that someone else committed? The Christian belief
that the descendents should bear the sin of their father is the essence of
injustice.
How can any sane person say that the sin should be carried down the
centuries by all of humanity, or that the children, grandchildren and
subsequent descendants should be tainted because of their father’s sin?

Secondly, making mistakes is a part of human nature. Our Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Every son of Aadam
is bound to commit sins_” (reported by al-Tirmidhi, 2423), but Allaah has
not left man unable to do anything about the mistakes that he makes. He
gives man the opportunity to repent, and so the hadeeth (words of the
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) quoted above concludes:
“_and the best of those who commit sins are those who repent.” The mercy of
Allaah is clear in the teachings of Islam, as Allaah calls His servants
(interpretation of the meaning):

“Say, `O My servants who have transgressed against themselves
(by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of
Allaah, verily Allaah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most
Merciful.”
[al-Zumar 39:53]

This is human nature, and this is the solution to the problem of sin.
But to make this human nature, which is bound to make mistakes, a barrier
between the servant and his Lord which will prevent him from ever earning
the pleasure of God, and to say that the only way to reach God is through
His sending His (so- called) son down to earth to be humiliated and
crucified while his father looks on, so that mankind could be forgiven, is
an extremely odd idea.
Just describing it sounds so unlikely that there is no longer any need to
refute it in detail. Once, when discussing this issue with a Christian, I
said, “If you say that God sent down His son to be crucified to atone for
the sins of the people alive at his time and afterwards, what about those
who had come before and died as sinners before the time of Christ, and had
no opportunity to know about him and believe in the Crucifixion so that
their sins might be
forgiven?”
All he could say was: “No doubt our priests have an answer to that!”
Even if they do have an answer, it is bound to be concocted. There is no
real answer.

If you really examine the Christian teaching on human sin with an open
mind,you will see that they say that God sacrificed His only son to atone
for the sins of mankind, and that this son was a god. If it was true that he
was a god who was beaten, insulted and crucified, and died, then this
doctrine contains elements of blasphemy because it accuses God of weakness
and helplessness. Is God really incapable of forgiving the sins of all His
servants with
just one word? If He is Able to do all things (and the Christians do not
dispute this fact), then why would He need to sacrifice His son in order to
achieve the same thing? (Glorified and exalted be He far above what the
wrongdoers say about Him!)

“He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How can He have
childrenwhen He has no wife? He created all things and He is the All-Knower
of everything.” [al-An’aam 6:101 - interpretation of the meaning]

An ordinary man would not accept anyone harming his child; he would
come to his defence, and would never hand him over to an enemy who would
insult him, let alone leave him to face the worst kind of death. If this is
the attitude of a mere created being, what then of the Creator?

Thirdly, the Christian doctrine of original sin has a negative effect
because, as you have mentioned, it does not require any duties of man other
than to believe that God sent His son to this earth to be crucified and to
die to atone for the sins of mankind. Thus a person becomes a Christian and
is to earn the
pleasure of God and be admitted to heaven. Moreover, the Christian
believes that everything that happened to the son of God was only to atone
for his sins, past present and future, so there is no need to wonder why
Christian societies have seen such an increase in murder, rape, robbery,
alcoholism and other problems. After all, did not Christ die to atone for
their sins, and haven’t their sins been wiped out, so why should they stop
doing these things?
Tell me, by your Lord, why do you sometimes execute murderers, or put
criminals in jail, or punish them in other ways, if you believe that the
criminal’s sins have all been atoned for and forgiven through the blood of
Christ? Is this not a strange contradiction?

5.You ask why, if the Muslims are the chosen people of mankind, they do not
spread their religion. The fact of the matter is that sincere Muslims have
always sought to do just that. How else could Islam have spread from Makkah
to Indonesia, Siberia, North Africa, Bosnia, South Africa and all parts of
the world, East and West? The faults in the behaviour of some modern Muslims
cannot be blamed on Islam; those faults are the result of going against
Islamic teachings. It is not fair to blame the religion for the faults of
some of its adherents who have gone against it or gone astray. Are Muslims
not being more
just than Christians when they affirm that the sinner is threatened
with the punishment of Allaah unless he repents, and that for some sins
there is a deterrent, a punishment to be carried out in this world as an
expiation for the Hereafter, as in the case of the punishments for murder,
theft, fornication/adultery, etc.?

6.What you say about it be so easy to become a Christian, as compared
to becoming a Muslim, is clearly mistaken. The key to Islam is no more
than two simple phrases: “Ash-hadu an laa ilaaha ill-Allaah wa anna
Muhammadan Rasool-Allaah (I bear witness that there is no god except Allaah
and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah).” With these few words, a
person enters Islam in a matter of seconds. There is no need for baptism or
priests, or even to go to a certain place such as a mosque or anywhere else.
Compare this with the ridiculous procedures of baptism which the Christians
do when they want
to admit someone to the Church. Then there is the fact that the Christians
venerate the cross on which Jesus was tortured and crucified in great pain -
as they claim. They take it as a sacred object of blessing and healing,
instead of scorning it and hating it as a symbol of oppression and the worst
possible way
for the son of God to die!

7.Do you not see that the Muslims are closer than others to the truth,
because they believe in all the Prophets and Messengers, respecting them all
and recognizing that all of them taught the truth of Divine Unity (Tawheed)
and that each of them was appointed by Allaah and sent to his people with
laws that were appropriate to the time and place? When the fair-minded
Christian sees the followers of Islam believing in Musa (Moses), `Eesaa
(Jesus), and
Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and in the
original Torah and Gospel, as well as the Qur’aan, and sees his own people
denying the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon
him) and rejecting the Qur’aan, wouldn’t his open-mindedness make him think
that the Muslims are most likely to be right?

8.You say that the Messiah said, “No one comes to the Father except
through me”. We need, first of all, to be sure that these words can truly be
attributed to Jesus. Secondly, this is clearly not true. How then could
mankind have known God at the times of Nooh (Noah), Hood, Saalih, Yoonus
(Jonah), Shu’ayb (Jethro), Ibraaheem (Abraham), Musa (Moses) and othe
rProphets? If you were to say that during the time of Jesus (upon whom be
peace) and up to the time of the Final Prophet, Muhammad (peace and
blessings of Allaah be upon him) the Children of Israel had no other way to
know the religion of Allaah except through the way of Jesus, this would be
correct.

9.Finally, you quote the Messiah as saying, “I and the Father are one”.
This is clearly not correct. If we examine the matter objectively,
without
letting our own desires get in the way, it becomes clear that the
conjunction
“and” in the phrase “I and the Father” implies that two separate
entities are
involved. “I” is one entity, and “the Father” is another. If you say,
“So-and- so and I”, it is obvious to any rational person that they are
two separate people. The equation 1+1+1=1 makes no sense to any rational
person, whether he is a mathematician or not.

Finally, I advise you (and I do not think that you will reject this
advice) to think deeply about what you have read, putting aside your
background, any pre- conceived ideas, your own desires and feelings of
attachment to your religion or culture, and to seek guidance sincerely
from Allaah. Allaah Most Generous and will never let any of His
servants down. Allaah is the One Who guides to the Straight Path, and He is
Sufficient for us and is the best disposer of affairs..