Difference between pashtuns and balochs

Thomas Holdich’s account of his twenty-year career as a military officer and surveyor on the western frontier.14 According to Holdich: The Baluch is easier to deal with and to control than the Pathan, owing to his tribal organization, and his freedom from bigoted fanaticism or blind allegiance to his priest. He respects and honours the chief of his clan, who possesses far greater authority in the tribal councils than is the case with the Pathan. The Pathan is a republican of the worst type. He is a law unto himself, and although he is very much under the infuence of the Mullah, he has always an eye to business, even in his most fanatical outbursts. Both are warlike and predatory, but their methods of fighting differ essentially, even when engaged in intertribal warfares. The Baluch fights openly, and faces the enemy boldly. There is a rough form of chivalry amongst the Baluch warriors, who are in most respects worthy descendants of the Arab conquerors of Asia . . . [T]he Pathan will make use of any stratagem or subterfuge that suits his purpose. He will shoot his own relations just as soon as his enemy, possibly sooner and he will shoot them from behind.

-In essence, Holdich and other colonial observers portray Pushtun social organization as egalitarian, and Pushtun themselves as entrepreneurial, religious, and treacherous, even towards their relatives; and they portray Baloch social organization as oligarchic and Baloch as forthright and especially concerned with honoour.

-In the contemporary setting the value attached to these objective' traits can vary, however. A number of studies have shown that the denotative or core traits that make up stereotypes are most widely shared (even by members of the group against whom the stereotype is directed) and persistent, whereas their connotations, the values placed on those traits, vary through time and among individuals The positive connotation that can be attached to the entrepreneur is that he is industrious, the negative connotation is that he is venal; the positive connotation that can be attached to the man with strong tribal values is that he is principled, the negative connotation is that he is detached from the practical aspects of life. Thus several Pushtun informants asserted that their group's economic success is due to hard work, an aptitude for education, and their lack of regard for backward’ tribal institutions. On the other hand, their economic success is interpreted by Baloch as a sign of greediness and a lack of honor. For example, one Baloch informant said most Pushtun would kill their own brother for money, an assessment which combines greed, a want of tribal values, and the sense that Pushtun are at war with their relatives. Conversely, several of my Pushtun informants depicted the lack of Baloch economic success as caused by their laziness. All they care about is their honor' a Pushtun bus driver told me. Baloch themselves often identify the high value placed on honor as characteristically Baloch. Several Baloch informants told me, for example, that no Baloch woman would ever dishonor herself by working as a prostitute, even if she was destitute. While some Baloch are highly critical of the power of hereditary tribal leaders, most view loyalty to these sardars as an expression of tribal values and therefore honorable. Pushtun informants described it as a symptom of their backwardness and subservience. They will even kiss the hand of their sardar’ one Pushtun said of the Baloch. This is not to say that Pushtun do not value honor (indeed, feuding among Pushtun is acted out through the discourse of honor), nor Baloch economic success; it is a matter of definitions and priorities with members of groups selecting certain traits, some of which are aspects of wider regional culture, to exemplify perceived differences with others.

-My thesis is that these different stereotypes result from differences in the social organization of the two peoples, differences which are summarized in the observation that Pushtun groupings are egalitarian and Baloch hierarchic. Baloch and Pushtun are culturally and socially similar. Both inhabit ecological zones in which agriculture is possible only in limited areas, though among the Baloch pastoralism has assumed much greater importance than among the Pushtun.18 On the basis of shared descent and territory, segmentary groupings are established in both societies, and those relationships are expressed in the cultural values of patrilineality, honor, and obligation to provide protection (and hospitality) to family and guests. Most Baloch like most Pushtun are Sunni Muslims. In Quetta the two peoples are interpenetrated, with marriages, partnerships, and friendships being formed between them, and in the rural areas, as discussed below, it is not uncommon for lineages in Baloch tribes to claim Pushtun origins. Despite these similarities and interconnections, there are signiccant differences in the socio-political structure of Baloch and Pushtun tribes.differences which are summarized in the observation that Baloch tribes are relatively centralized and hierarchic and Pushtun ones relatively decentralized and egalitarian. contemporary ethnographers consistently highlight the extreme individualism and radical equality prevalent among Pushtun which contrasts with the nested hierarchy of status and authority in Baloch groupings which culminates in the offfice of the sardar

The practical manifestation of equality among Pushtun is the jirga or council of elders.

The relationship between members of a council is one of equals; with no speaker or leader; the equality is emphasized by circular seating on the ground and the equal right of all to speak. The body does not finalize its decisions in a vote: discussion and negotiation continue until the decision is unopposed and thereby unanimous and binding as a decision by each participant . . . . It allows groups of men to arrive at joint decisions without compromising any participant’s independence; it produces binding corporate decisions about concerted action without dissembling the structure of egalitarian balanced segments through the introduction of any one’s right to give commands in Pushtun society, to be another’s client means bearing `inferior, non-tribesman serf status. Just as the emphasis on equality among Pushtun is unusual among tribal peoples in the Islamic world, so too is the degree of hierarchy in Baloch tribes as manifested in the level of authority and status held by Baloch sardars. Their wealth (from personally owned lands and the taxes they levy on their tribesmen and clients), their ability to determine who holds office at sub-tribal levels, and their formal connections with external political structures give these sardars considerable power to settle disputes and determine events within the tribe (Swidler 1969: 152). Indeed, the centrality of the sardar is such that recognition of his authority can initiate a process by which outsiders are incorporated into his tribe. Thus, most Baloch tribes have accretions of lineages from other Baloch tribes or even other ethnic groups around a core of lineages with recognized descent from the group’s patronym. Even in areas, such as Makran, where patrilineal tribes have little importance in peoples’ lives, other types of patron±client relationships play a determining role in social organization, and, as Barth points out, those relationships take on different signifcance than they do in Pushtun society.

Source Honor the Baloch, Buy the Pushtun ~ (Paul Titus, 1998) - Pashtun Community | Pashtuns | Pashto |

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

summary please :D

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

I thought Balochs had more in common with Sindhis than Pashtuns except for being nomadic tribals

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

Over the time, traditions of Sindh and Balochistan merged in a way that its difficult to identify some Baloch traditions in Sindhi society.

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

I agree honor is everything for baloch

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

Some one said 35-40% sindhis are of baloch origin so it is understandable that baloch have more in common with sindhis than any one. The wadaira of sindh is mostly baloch and has same attitude like a sardar of balochistan.....

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

Pashtuns are egalitarian, highly individualistic decentralized and democratic while balochs are centralized hierarchical and sardar-centric.

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

A british writes about pashtuns,
*
In truth, the Pathans are of all the people in this world the most democratic, the least subject to authority, the most independent. Physically they are one of the finest races created by God; and with them the spirit of freedom and independence amounts to a ruling passion. They are not only intolerant of foreign dominion, but yield scarcely any obedience to their own chiefs. They have none of the Celtic reverence, if such there really be, but rather the Saxon individuality. Elphinstone well describes their popular system of representation, the Jeergas of Clans, and the Sub-Jeergas of Sub-Clans, their allegiance to the community and not to the chief. To him I must refer you for particulars. It is to be feared, however, that even the popular assemblies exercise a very imperfect power. To a great degree, every man is a law to himself, and blood feuds, attended with great loss of life, are chronic among the people. Elphinstone explains their habits and manners, and the difference between the western and the eastern tribes; the former being more pastoral and perhaps also somewhat more amenable to rule; most of the latter purely agricultural, perhaps we might rather say horticultural, and democratic in the extreme.*
Journal of the Royal United Service Institution - Royal United Service Institution - Google Books

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

The Baloch have lives side by side with Pashtuns and Sindhis, how is that they have mingled with the later much more?

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

highly individualistic decentralized? how come? Its the traits of current day west. In our part of region every community is connected and have a big fear of 'biradri' and some follows sardaes, some follows punchaiyat, some follows Jirga.

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

Probably, its easy to mingle with a group which shows less or no resistance then a group which show repulsion Or opposites attract and likes repel.

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

sardari system is not in evry part of balochistan for example there is no sardary system in gwadar,kech,chagai,panjgur,awaran even in lasbela lot of baloch dont follow sardari system its just in some parts of Baluchistan like kholu dera bugti and so on

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

De-centralized in the sense that they do not have central figure like a sardar/wadaira/chaudri....Our society is ofcourse different from madar-pidar azaad society of west where there is no concept of family........

Jirga is not panchiat of Punjab and india.......It is the "meeting" to resolve socio-political issues. Unlike panchiat, there is no head of jirga, all the members of jirga sit in the circle and every one in the jirga can express his thoughts......even if a single member disagrees, decision on the issue will not be taken. We have "maraka" a jirga at the level of every village. Then we have "quami jirga" , the jirga of whole tribe and is concerned with tribe's level issues. The "loya" jirga is grand jirga of numerous tribes. It is democratic system that we have been following since thousands of years.

Moreover the jirga can not impose its decision like panchait......when there is enmity between two families, then jirga would give the verdict which would be acceptable to both families. A party can reject jirga's decision and move on to other levels like courts.

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

But you yourself said that mekranis are not proper balochs that they are africans or some thing like that …

here is one of your sardar of lasbela
Jam Mohammad Yousaf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

but again who are the representatives on jirga. Its someone having authority in their area or anyone (common person) can be representative at jirga?

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

Balochs were conquerors while indigenous sindhis were conquered people.............thats why their presence and the mingling in sindh

balochs are neither conquerors nor conquered in case of pashtuns thats why living side by side rather than imposing on each other.

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

Yar if i am concerned with the issue than i can be part of jirga if i am elder enough to be representative of my family.

There are various kind of jirgas.............a village level jirga is different from qaumi level jirga.....there can be a political jirga where all the politicians of the area gather to make some political decision.....

You must be hearing word jirga in the FATA but interestingly it is most corrupt form of jirga. British messed it up. They enforced FCR, appointed malaks and issued salaries to them from political agent office. When taliban were hunting down malaks, their excuse was that malaks are products of british raj.

You see the jirga in best form in rural afghanistan, there the khan of clan is elected through jirga. If he dies then another one can put forward his name for khan position.

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

Interesting.. but who are Malaks then? Are they counterpart of Malaks in Punjab? We have been watching Malaks playing same roles in Peshawer TV's dramas like waders from Sindh and Choudhris / Malaks from Punjab.

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

If i am not wrong it is "malik" rather than "malak" in case of Punjab. Moreover malik of punjab is baradri/caste while malak of pashtuns is position.

Peshweri films/tv are exaggeration and have no touch with reality....they show every one with guns killing each other for no reason and they show fat girls dancing on every moment......come to peshwer, you would observe none........

Re: Difference between pashtuns and balochs

lols at fat girls dancing.

but again there might be feudals in KP area. no?