Difference Again.......

[zer01]

I started the other Difference post with some good intensions and wanted to show you all how I felt so close to our sunni brothers after I watched that video. But seems as long as there are people like ‘armughal and such’ exist among us there would be no peace and love between shia and sunnis.

May Allah save us from such fitnah.

Sister Ma Mooli wrote in that thread:

Most followers of Ahl sunnah indeed dont know even the names of Imams let alone state what order they ruled in. Even now, the names would sound foriegn to most sunnis. I dont think you can hold anyone in much regard if you dont know who they were and if they even existed.

Almost same words used Dr Tahir Qadri in his speech. He narated Ahadith on the virtues of Ahle-Bait (as) from Sahihin (Sihah Sitah) and other sunni books and asked the audience if they ever heared those ahadith before. The Mojority answered in no.

And it is correct, Before I converted to Shiaism I didnt know this as well. I only knew that there are Panjtan Pak but never knew that there are Imam too, I didnt even know about Imam Mehdi (as). But since the day I converted to shiaism, I give preference the love of Ahle Bait (as) above all. It is also what Allah (swt) wants from us. He (swt) says in Quran

Verse 23, Sura 42

"Say O Muhammad to mankind: ‘No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin.’ "

According to Traditions, when the holy Prophet was asked as to who were the relatives alluded to in the verse, the holy Prophet said, “Verily, the reference is to Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain.”

SOURCE

Alas we hifz the quran, we read and Listen Quran every day in Ramadan but we have forgotten to follow the ayahs like I posted above.

armughal, What is shirk?

associating partners to Allah?? right??

Sorry to tell you Dude but if you use this analogy then ‘your parents’ are also The Mushriks.

It is our Iman that Allah is The Creater of All Creations. Ponder, why he used your mother to bring you in this word. Is it not that he made your parents partners in you creation??

Allah is the best Raziq of all, But you earn your own money (Rizq) to provide your family food and shelter? Should anyone say you Mushrik for doing that??

Actually its not what bothering you if somebody is doing shirk or not. **What bothers you the most and force you to hate Shia is the names of Hassan, Hussain, Fatima and Ali. ** Anyone who reads that thread from top again could easily understand that. And you also mentioned in your other post that Zikere Hussain is nothing but garbage to you.

dr tahir qadri has been discussed in this forum earlier on and i think most of the visitors to the forum already agree that he talks garbage more often than not…

Messenger of Allah said: “He who loves me and loves these two: al-Hasan and al-Husain, and loves their father and mother, he will be with me in Paradise.”

Sahih al-Tirmidhi
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, on the authority of Imam Ali
Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami

Read the above Hadith and the Ayah I posted above and poder, whats your end.

May Allah Curse The Enemies Of Rasul (saww) and His Ahle Bait (as) and burn them in the deepest level of hell

[armughal]

^
i can bring u a whole book of why the noble family of the Prophet (saw) is to be loved....

and i can assure u that there is no one among the muslims who does not love the ahl-e-bayt....

but u ppl go wrong in many places....
and it is there that u need to be corrected, and that is what i try to do....

• claiming imams r better than even most of the prophets (i dont think any muslim wud agree wit u on this)

• abusing the most noble companions of the Prophet (saw) and the torchbearers of the religion and even calling some of them non-mulsims/hypocrites

• thinking that Allah does ten to us directly cuz of our low status in terms of taqwa and hence we need to have a wasila (this is what almost all of my shiaa friends have told me when i ask them why they must say Ya Ali and not Ya Allah)

there r many many more....

may Allah guide u to the truth and open up ur eyes to see that Islam spread more than just within the house of the Prophet (saw) and that the knowledge of Islam had not been limited just to the few members of the Prophet's (saw) house but rather a whole ummah, a whole nation had learnt Islam directly from the Prophet (saw).....

ur problem is that while u love only the family of the Prophet (saw), we all muslims love his family and his companions as well, who spent their days and nights with the Prophet (saw), sacrificing in his love all that they had....

[picard]

[QUOTE]
and i can assure u that there is no one among the muslims who does not love the ahl-e-bayt....

[/QUOTE]

Ur right. There is no muslim who would deny the love of AhleBait(As). We differ only in our belief of what the love ahlebait (as) means.

"Behold! My Ahlul-Bayt are like the Ark of Noah. Whoever embarked in it was SAVED, and whoever turned away from it was PERISHED."

Sunni references:

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p343, v3, pp 150-151 on the authority of Abu Dhar. al-Hakim said this tradition is authentic (Sahih).
Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p786
Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, under the commentary of verse 42:23, Part 27, p167
al-Bazzar, on the authority of Ibn Abbas and Ibn Zubair with the wording "drowned" instead of "perished".
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p234 under Verse 8:33. Also in section 2, p282. He said this Hadith has been transmitted via numerous authorities.
Tarikh al-Khulafaa and Jami' al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti
al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v3, pp 37,38
al-Saghir, by al-Tabarani, v2, p22
Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p306
al-Kuna wal Asmaa, by al-Dulabi, v1, p76
Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, pp 30,370
Is'af al-Raghibeen, by al-Saban

"O' people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance... The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times)."
Sunni Reference:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1873, Tradition #36.

For the English version of Sahih Muslim, see Chapter CMXCVI, v4, p1286, Tradition #5920

The messenger of Allah said: "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to BOTH of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The Merciful has informed me that These two shall not separate from each other till they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
Sunni references:

Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 662-663,328, report of 30+ companions, with reference to several chains of transmitters.
al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, pp 109,110,148,533 who wrote this tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim).
Sunan, by Daarami, v2, p432
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, pp 14,17,26,59, v4, pp 366,370-372, v5, pp 182,189,350,366,419
Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p585, Tradition #990
al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 21,30
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p230
al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v3, pp 62-63,137
Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Chapter al-Iti'sam bi Habl Allah, v1, p44.
Tafsir Ibn Kathir (complete version), v4, p113, under commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran (four traditions)
al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, p194, Pub. by Dar Isadder, Lebanon.
al-Jami' al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti, v1, p353, and also in v2
Majma' al-Zawa'id, al-Haythami, v9, p163
al-Fateh al-Kabir, al-Binhani, v1, p451
Usdul Ghabah fi Ma'rifat al-Sahaba, Ibn al-Athir, v2, p12
Jami' al-Usul, Ibn al-Athir, v1, p187
History of Ibn Asakir, v5, p436
al-Taj al-Jami' Lil Usul, v3, p308
al-Durr al-Manthoor, al-Hafidh al-Suyuti, v2, p60
Yanabi al-Mawaddah, al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, pp 38,183
Abaqat al-Anwar, v1, p16
... and many more ...

Anyway, if you believe u are fulfilling the prophet pbuh&hf comandments regarding his family then be at peace. Theres nothing we can tell eachother about the prophet's pbuh &hf ahlebait that a sincere person cant find out from a little research.

[QUOTE]
- claiming imams r better than even most of the prophets (i dont think any muslim wud agree wit u on this)
[/QUOTE]

You have again indicated that Shias arent muslims. Since this is a repetative habit of urs, I ask you to tell me specifically the conditions of being a muslim and which conditions in ur opinion shias dont fulfill. We both think eachother misguided, but never do shias call sunnis or even wahhabis non-muslims.

[QUOTE]
- abusing the most noble companions of the Prophet (saw) and the torchbearers of the religion and even calling some of them non-mulsims/hypocrites

[/QUOTE]

firstly abusing and foul language is wrong and any shia who partakes in it is commiting a grave sin. Haveing said that shias do oppose those people who opposed the ahlebait (as) according to the commandments of the prophet pbuh&hf. There are many sahabas that shias hold in high esteem, but anyone who opposed the ahlebait(as) no matter who the personality is not revered.

[QUOTE]
- thinking that Allah does ten to us directly cuz of our low status in terms of taqwa and hence we need to have a wasila (this is what almost all of my shiaa friends have told me when i ask them why they must say Ya Ali and not Ya Allah)
[/QUOTE]

There are two extremes. One is that we NEED to have a waseela and Allah will not listen to us otherwise. The other is that we CAN NOT have a waseela and invoking a waseela (not a parnter of Allah)in prayers is wrong. I say both of these extremes is wrong. WHat do you say? before u answer, u shud know that there are many Quranic verses relating to this issue and u shud go throught them before answering.

[QUOTE]
may Allah guide u to the truth and open up ur eyes to see that Islam spread more than just within the house of the Prophet (saw) and that the knowledge of Islam had not been limited just to the few members of the Prophet's (saw) house but rather a whole ummah, a whole nation had learnt Islam directly from the Prophet (saw).....
[/QUOTE]

yes it might have spread beyound the Ahlebait(as). But the Ahlebait(as) are the scales which judge how far it spread. Anyone opposing them was wrong and anyone with them was right.
The Messenger of Allah said:

"Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy."

Sunni references:
- Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;
- Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;
- Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128
- Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202
- Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p185
- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462

Muslim in his Sahih narrated on the authority of Zirr that:

Ali said: By him who split up the seed and created something
living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a
promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a
hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.

• Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141

[QUOTE]
may Allah guide u to the truth
[/QUOTE]

may allah guide us all to the truth

[Don]

There was a reason why the previous discussion was closed down. If you guys can not respect the rules of this forum (in this case, the Moratorium), then just go away. Any one trying to start the same discussion again (whatever the intent), will receive an official warning.

This discussion is now closed.