[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**
Many pagans of Arabia rejected Islam in the beginning for the same reason that it didn't give any importance to their gods.
**
[/quote]
you mean to those man made scary looking statues that Arabs used to worship??/
AJ: Your pagan comment and Secret obsessions reply remind me of the line by Mel Brooks in History of the World..
“These christians are sooooo poor”
..“how poor are they”
“they are so poor…they only have one GOD”
Chaltahai: Muslims are even poorer. We don't have the three-in-one flavor.
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited April 16, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
Do you guys wanna give your hypothesis about why Islam couldn't win over the hearts of this **Island **of Hindu/Buddhist/sikh people?
[/quote]
Dear Kumarakn-
If you want to talk about the island of the hindu/budhist/sikh people, then we can't since it doesn't exist. I can't even get past this island concept.
And what war might you be referring to? Dear friend, keep in mind that Islaam was spread by the honesty and manners of the merchants & others who came to the Hind, not by the sword.
Lets talk about the Indian Peninsula. I wouldn't say that Islaam failed in the subcontinent. It thrives in India, my family is from Hyderabad which has masjids all over the place, if u visit hyderabad, it is almost like living in a muslim country b/c u can hear the adhan, people of india understand the muslim customs & manners regardless of their own religion, and the local hindus have adopted some of the muslim customs and manners as well, since people are attracted to what is good and adopt refined manners. Listen to this, my Indian Hindu neighbor who has lived in America for 15 years, only eats Dhabiha meet (aka "Halaal").
There are approximately 150 million Muslims in India alone. I have no clue about Pakistan or Bangladesh since that is beyond my scope of interest. If you take Paki and Bangla muslims in account, it is a huge number. By no means is that a failure.
If you look at Saudi Arabia or any of the Arab countries, it is not as populous as the land of our heritage, thus regardless of the fact that Indian muslims account for 12-15% of total indian population they will outnumber the Arab muslims.
India has values that have survived centuries of change. These
values have their roots in the Vedas, blossomed in the Upanishads
and were made perennial in the Bhagavad-Gita. Hinduism is not a
religion in the strictest sense. It is a mighty river of human
endeavor, too large to be contained in a set of dogmas or in a
book. It gives man absolute freedom to seek knowledge, to unfold
the mystery of man and his environment. It places greater emphasis
on honest disagreement than on blind conformity. Well-known
astrophysicist, Carl Sagan states, "The Hindu religion is the only
one of the world's great faiths dedicated to the idea that cosmos
itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite number of deaths &
rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales
correspond to those of modern cosmology ... And while our
intelligence has recently provided us with awesome powers, it is
not yet clear that we have the wisdom to avoid our own self-
destruction." And as recently as 1970, Dr. Arnold Toynbee observed
after surveying the history of the human race, "It is already
becoming clear that a chapter which had a Western beginning will
have to have an Indian ending if it is not to end in self-
destruction of the human race. If human race has to be saved, it
has to embrace the Hindu way." Polytheism, the worship of many
gods, constantly reminded the faithful that the divine could never
be confined to any one human expression. The mystery which
underplay the fragilities of life was pictured in gods and
goddesses who resembled human beings, images that expressed a sense
of affinity with the sacred. Such a many-faceted vision of the
sacred is still preserved in Hinduism. Monotheism, however, would
permit only one symbol of the divine. There was always therefore
the possibility that its vision would be more limited a risk
against which creative monotheists were on guard. Imagination must
be a religious faculty, since it enables people to envisage the
eternally absent and elusive God. Creative monotheists have
associated female images, redolent of peace, of healing with the
sacred. Perhaps this type of spirituality can counteract the
cruelty and hatred that monotheism has so often been party to. If
so, let God (rather than 'the Lord') be praised. The Hindu Way is a
democratic and secular way of living. It is probably the only faith
which can coexist with all other faiths when practiced in the right
way. The beauty of it is one is not confined to a prophet or a
book. It has an Universal appeal. Thus said Will Durant, "India was
the mother of our race and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's
languages. She was the mother of our philosophy, mother through the
Arabs, of much of our mathematics, mother through Buddha, of the
ideals embodied in Christianity, mother through village communities
of self-government & democracy. Mother India is in many ways the
mother of us all."
rvizk,
Did you know that the Humanists have a strikingly similar ideology. And I have a Buddhist friend (from Sri Lanka) who claims to be Muslim, Christian & Buddhist at the same time.
Please take a look at this posts
i dont believe in reducing all the religens
in to a copmpeting ideolgy. i personally benefit from the teachings from all religens.
*PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE! *
Nobody is disputing how Islam is the fastest growing and the most supreme religion ever came to earth and will ever come to earth.
My simple question for which I started the thread is to know your reasoning/hypothesis on
*Why Islam didn't win over Indians/Srilankans/Nepalese as much it did on Malaysians, Indonesians, Iranis or Iraqis and the people of Pakistan? *
This is despite 300 years of political control over most of these territories.
Muni:
I just saw your post. I am not saying that Islam is absent in India or Srilanka.
All I am saying is, Islam wiped out everything that came in its way in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, in the west, and Bangladresh, Indoensia, Malaysia etc. in the east.
But in India, Nepal and Srilanka, it limps to make a distant second despite trying to destroy Indian temples for many centuries.
So, I thought I will ask you all about why this could have happened?
simple reason is there was already well established religen in india unlike iran .
pakistan was close to invasion route.
in south india mughal rule never established.
hinduism also integrted all the pre-aryan
local beliefs.
I can’t help but smile at all these people trying to answer this question with smart replies and statistically proven facts.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
The answer my dear friends is so simple:
The arrogance, ignorance and insolence in that part of the world has proven to be so much greater/stronger then any other part of the world that a single monotheistic faith has countered.
You want facts? Try me and I will show you all that. Guaranteed 
just becomeing monotheistic wont propel you into some kind of superior position.
what difference you see between bangaldesh and westbengal?
Kumarkakn,
Your question is what a sociology grad student would love to do a thesis on. But like many other social questions, the answer is an opinion based on certain facts. And by nature all opinions are biased.
One can carve up many theories; I had a few, Muni had another one, Chaltahai & rvikz had their own. At the end you have to make your own opinion as what truly is the answer.
Good Luck!
[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
** just becomeing monotheistic wont propel you into some kind of superior position.
what difference you see between bangaldesh and westbengal?
**
[/quote]
The arrogance, ignorance and insolence in those countries are still strong, but that doesn’t prove a thing. Take a look at Pakistan, even though the people have been Muslims for so long, many of their Hindu customs have survived and gotten mixed with their faith. Although, many of these customs are minor, but counters such as Bangladesh etc. show greater difference based on the fact that they are closer to Hindustan (India) geographically.
Most Native Americans, after being ruled by Christians for so long, still dance around the fire to get healed. Almost all Amazonian people follow their religions even after the heavy involvement of missionaries there today.
It is the backwardness, ignorance that has made it almost impossible for such monotheistic religions to gain popularity in such areas.
I’m not trying to put down any religion or people here, but it’s a fact.
yes ahamadjee if i were born in iceland i would think differently i agree.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
**Are you telling me Malaysia, Indonesia saw a growth in Islam unlike India because Islam was spread there through non-violence?
Could it be that repeated invasions/wars against people of India made Islam less-appealing to Indians? or if I am incorrect, ** What exactly went wrong for Islam in India? **
lol, you're a funny man. First of all, most muslims in south asia are found in the northwestern part which is Pakistan althought the base of most of the muslim dynasties was delhi in what is today northern India. But thats NOT where you find the muslims do ya? despite ruling this huge region for 1100 years combined. Islam is found precsiely in areas traditionally independant areas of subcontinent with their unique culture and where so many sufis have done their work. After 1100 years if the muslim rulers really wanted ENTIRE south asia would have been muslim. And Pakistan is not the only country where Islam spread, Pakistan forms the eastern most frontier of the continuos islamic belt.
[This message has been edited by Sultan Toora (edited April 16, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by ~Mickey~:
**
The arrogance, ignorance and insolence in those countries are still strong, but that doesn’t prove a thing. Take a look at Pakistan, even though the people have been Muslims for so long, many of their Hindu customs have survived and gotten mixed with their faith. Although, many of these customs are minor, but counters such as Bangladesh etc. show greater difference based on the fact that they are closer to Hindustan (India) geographically.
Most Native Americans, after being ruled by Christians for so long, still dance around the fire to get healed. Almost all Amazonian people follow their religions even after the heavy involvement of missionaries there today.
It is the backwardness, ignorance that has made it almost impossible for such monotheistic religions to gain popularity in such areas.
I’m not trying to put down any religion or people here, but it’s a fact.
**
[/quote]
are you saying pakistanis from prehistoric period until they converted to islam they did not contribute to anything?
LOL hahahaha, thats so cool, cuz it shows your utter ignorence. The heart of Islam in the arabian peninsula is the area where the most significance human civilizations flourished. Mesopotamia has been the first and foremost human cradle of civilization. Then there is egypt another cradle of civilization. What about Pakistan which has one of the most ancient and significant cradle of civilizations the indus valley. All three most advanced and significant cradles of civilizations the tigris-euphrates, the nile and the indus are under Islam.
And apart from Buddha and Ashoka there isnt much significant things which has come of what is today India. What is this so called “hinduisms” contribution to humanity? Hell, one of the foremost complaint of any anthropologist trying to uncover something in Indian territory today is the incredible lack of historic documents, almost everything has been created from foreign accounts. Only during the Gupta empire some things really did happen, including for the first time writing down of some history.
And centralasia is one of the most significant cradles of civilization which has produced and influenced the then known world far more than anything India could produce.
As far as civility. At the time of Islam, europe was sunk in darkness. That period in european history is known as the “cursed age”. Apparently Islam didnt take its hold there in the barbaric region and the other place ofcoourse by your logic wopuld then be what is today india.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/tongue.gif
[This message has been edited by Sultan Toora (edited April 16, 2002).]
are you saying simply convering to islam
you will automaticaly become superior nation.
that will be very easy and simplistic.
sultan toora the inhabitants of indus valley
were dravidians not the presnt day pakistani
The extensive excavations carried out at the two principal city sites, Harappa and Mohenjo-daro, indicates that this Dravidian culture was well established by about 2500 B.C. What we know of this ancient civilization is derived almost exclusively from archaeological data since every attempt to decipher the script used by these people has failed so far. Recent analyses of the order of the signs on the inscriptions have led several scholars to the view that the language is not of the Indo-European family, nor is it close to the Sumerians, Hurrians, or Elamite, nor can it be related to the structure of the Munda languages of modern India. If it is related to any modern language family it appears to be Dravidian akin to Old Tamil, presently spoken throughout the southern part of the Indian Peninsula. 2 A study of the evolution of scripts in India indicates that the Dravidians, over the centuries, have made the key contributions to the development of language and literature in India.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2104/indusvalley.html