Did Anyone See Benazir's Speech at Trafalgar Square??

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

This event had to be the most disorganised thing i have ever been to.
She must have been so embarrassed by it. One example banners produced by the PPP saying Go, Go Musharraf. I realised what it meant but the wording can so easily be misapplied.
There were probs 700-800 people there and so many were talking of what a farce it was. This was before her speech.

I made sure I was at the front by the start of her speech. Nothing about her policies and what she will do for Pakistan but just what is wrong with Musharraf. I don’t like Musharraf but it would be nice for her to mention her vision of Pakistan. She just mentioned democracy instead of diactatorship. There is no thing as a true democracy so more nonsense.

I never realised one could lie so much. She spoke about corruption in Pakistan and how it needs to be rid of. This from a woman who is not allowed in Pakistan on corruption charges and a hunsband who is one of the richest men in Pakistan…Please.

She spoke about how Musharraf did what the Americans wanted. How would she be any different.

The whole event was a farce but i have to say i did enjoy the event. It was chaos. They had to get security to get people off the stage. Some of the people who were supposed to be supporters had sticks in their hands. Yes…supporters.

On a serious note, this was another person speaking about democracy who doesn’t intend to implement it fully. There will never be any such thing.
Democracy is by the people for the people yet in reality it is just the elite who make the decisions in a democracy and not the actual people. Look at any democracy and tell me how much power the average person has. It is just the big businesses and the ruling families who will ever make decisions of any note in Pakistan. Democracy is not to benefit the average person in Pakistan but will just benefit the powerful people. Musharraf wants a true democracy, it will never happen as that means he won’t have power but everyone will have power. Doesn’t work.

In a democracy we would have Benazir, Musharraf etc making their own laws with influence of the big businesses and the US etc. and forgetting the average Pakistani. Many policies benefit the big businesses currently but look at how a price increase in Pakistan has effected the average Pakistani.

Man is not capable of making decisions and making their own laws. Allah has given us a fantastic system of law and policies to rule by from the Quran and Sunnah and who better to create rules than our creator who knows us better than we know ourselves.

I was speaking to a Pakistani yesterday who was telling me about why he left India and the fact that he thought Pakistan was going to be Islam but instead we celebrate 55 years of corruption. He was telling me about how Muslims gave up their wealth and belongings just becuase they wanted Islam but never got it.
Democracy encourages corruption and power within the elite.

Allah is soverign not man so why then do we accept the rules of man over our creator who undoubtedly knows a better system than the elite of Pakistan who are thinking of their bank accounts rather than the Pakistanis.

Benazir has spoken of the solution being democracy. There is no such thing. Rather we have had the same system in Pakistan for the past 55 years, just different faces. So benazir has nothing new to offer. Neither does Musharraff. All our rulers throughout Pakistan’s existence have let us down and will continue to do so.

The only time that there will be a sincere system is if Islam is ruling and I am not talking of a Zia make believe Islam system but a true ruling of Islam as set by our creator in his Quran and Sunnah.

2

It didnt even make the news man!

BBC 24 nor CNN nor FOX world report nor Sky News-what a joke!

3

Well it made the Jang...

4

The whole thing was poorly organised and to be honest many that came wren't supporters of the PPP. Her competition must be quite happy now.

Her whole call was based around democracy, nothing that she will implement and many that i spoke to thought that democracy was not the solution for Pakistan. Infact democracy will never happen in Pakistan or anywhere else. We have simply had the same system for the past 55 years which is just the name democracy but with the ruling elite calling the shots. Nothing new but the same old corruption that we have all got used to.

5

Read this BB lovers

‘Benazir Damaged Kashmir Struggle’](Daily Jang: Urdu News - Latest Breaking News update Pakistan - jang.com.pk)

BB sold out!

6

when has benazir ever really discussed real policies and plans, economic, education, social or anything. Its all just general vague claims "hum yeh kar daen gay, hum woh kar daen gay" etc.

I mean present your vision and plans while explaining how they will be better than the current regime's.

I still recall her first run at the office when there were banners that claimed thats he wil take "shaheed bhutto kay khoon ka badla" as if i really want to turn our governmenty into some cheap WWF dramatized revenge situations.

7

Pakistan really needs some fresh political blood in office, we must avoid a return to the era of BB or NS at any cost. No 2 ppl did more harm to Pakistan then those two idiots.

8

Re: Did Anyone See Benazir's Speech at Trafalgar Square??

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by s_H_e_I_k_H: *

I was speaking to a Pakistani yesterday who was telling me about why he left India and the fact that he thought Pakistan was going to be Islam but instead we celebrate 55 years of corruption. He was telling me about how Muslims gave up their wealth and belongings just becuase they wanted Islam but never got it.
Democracy encourages corruption and power within the elite.

[/QUOTE]

I don't get it. Are you saying that in Pakistan he was unable to practice his religion?

Aneyway, best thing any govt. can do is to stay out of people's personal lives. Your religion beliefs are between you and your God. No one else's business. As for as democracy is concerned, it's not perfect system of govt. but it's by for the best. Those of us live in it do appreciate it greatly, too, bad same can't said about the country most us belong to, Pakistan.

Cheers

9

Benazir’s Strange Remarks

Benazir Bhutto has reportedly compared Gen Musharraf with Saddam Hussein and Robert Mugabe which is ridiculous, taking into account her own misrule during her two terms in the office of prime minister.

I am admirer of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto who was hanged by Gen Zia but it seems that his daughter Benazir Bhutto will make alliances with anyone who can help her in getting back power even if it is the religious parties which were instrumental in helping Gen Zia hang her father.

**Where has her Oxford education and liberal socialism gone? ** :hehe: The PPP was and should be a party of the people and for the people, not for the narrow-minded bigots that she is allying this once great party with.

**Whatever Gen Musharraf’s failings may be, he has recognized that Pakistan must turn its back on religious extremism and move forward with the West to a new bright future where all law-abiding citizens, regardless of their religion, are treated with dignity and respect. **:k:

**SEDNEM

Mississauga, Canada **

10

Benazir is a Sellout

One of the factors which has encouraged India to take this ‘bold’ step is the visit/disclosure of the ‘Daughter of the East’ and her anti-Pakistan interviews. The jiyalas are standing on their heads to deny the negative impact of her interviews, but the fact is that Indians became emboldened against Pakistan immediately after her ‘visit’ to India and her interviews/disclosures. The timing and sequence of events are too obvious and cannot be ruled out as mere co-incidence. The Indians suddenly ‘found’ a list of terrorists. The mention of a list rings a bell when in one of her interviews she openly declared “I bailed Rajiv out”.

11

Sheikh, given that you prefer the Islamic system over any other, I'm surprised you were in the forefront to hear a speech by a WOMAN, and expecting to get some hope of a better future from her (as seen by your disappointment in not sharing her "vision" of a better future Pakistan with you). Were you prepared to accept her as a leader in the Islamic government of your dreams?

A side note, I seriously doubt the hadith supporting women to be inept to be leaders is authentic due to the huge mass of proof that shows it to be political propaganda...

Again, there is inherently nothing wrong with the Islamic government. The problem falls in when you try to impose punishments for things that dont have religious punishments perscribed for them (like beating women publicly or imprisoning them or fining them for not wearing a burqa), and when you have devils posing as angels while sitting on the "kursi" of the caliph and dictating unIslamic nonsense in the name of Islam, which is probably what WOULD happen in Pakistan if the Islamic system were to be put in place.

The Islamic system is too utopian. In other words, it is too good for mankind to follow for a long period of time. It wont ever happen, except maybe when the world is about to end. Lets face it, life is going to continue like this...living in an imperfect system and struggling forth in life.

No one is going to hand you a golden platter just because you say you're a muslim. Perhaps that is whats wrong. We're expecting too many golden platters in too little time and with too little work. And maybe the golden platters aren't meant to be given out in this life.

12

:biggthumb:

Pakistan Rejects Bhutto Election Papers :biggthumb:

13

PYC

No...you are probably right. I wouldn't want her to be in an Islamic government but then again i wouldn't want Nawaz Sharif in it either. These two have got more personal wealth then probably all the Pakistanis put together.

I have heard the hadeeth and am not in disagreement with it simply because i follow hadeeth as they just like the Quran are legitimate forms of evidence.
Not everything Allah tells us to do has a reason. Like why pray 3 rakat Maghrib and 2 rakat Fajr. There is no reason given but we follow it because Allah tells us to do it. Just like women in rule. There isn't a reason but the fact is it is stated so we as Muslims follow.
We must not pick and choose whihc hadeeth suit us. I'm not suggesting that you are but just make your disagreement with the hadeeth is not due to personal prejudice.
However if you can find a legitimate Islamic evidence which says a woman can rule then who am i to disagree if it is a good evidence.

With the caliphate. Rules aren't created. The rules are already there from Allah and Allah has set the punishhments out already. I am not sure about the punishments for women, but if they are Unislamic then obviously they won't be implemented but if the punishments are from Islam hence from Allah's teachings then so be it.
So the comment you make about Burqa. There is evidence for Hijab, not sure about Burqa and those who under Islam do not wear a Hijab are punished. That isn't unislamic. A hijab is from Islam.
On your point about an Unislamic caliphate, there is Majlis Al Shura which makes sure that the caliph can be rid of if he is to implement rules which are not from Islam.

Islam is the best system but i disagree that it is utopian. For example we live under Kufr and we learn ideas from Kufr and many live their lives by Kufr. While under Islam we learn Islam live Islam. The society is based around Islam so there is no conflict between the people and the ruling because society will function Islamically. Society makes people, not the other way round.
For a simple example, norm in society will be to not have pre marital sex and society pushes this concept through it's many mediums very much how the West do it the other way and promote the idea.
Look how people live with Western values, under Islam people will live by Islamic values.
While in this society we are told to live to the fullest and that is what society pushes, Islamic society pushes people to live live for the afterlife and to live by Allah's rules.
Islam will built a better society and i don't think people will have a problem following Islam's rules.
But man is flawed and there are those that will commit crimes etc and that is why Allah has a punishment system becuase Islam won't build angels but will build people who live life for Islam and for the afterlife.

To say it won't happen is pragmatic and Ihave seen you speak about Pakistan's problems and ask what people do about it but then say just face it. If everyone just became defeatist and said it will never happen then it won't.

I agree with you that it won't be handed to us. But to solve the problem. Ones need to work to solve it. Not to sit back and watch it.

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by s_H_e_I_k_H: *
The whole thing was poorly organised and to be honest many that came wren't supporters of the PPP. Her competition must be quite happy now.

Her whole call was based around democracy, nothing that she will implement and many that i spoke to thought that democracy was not the solution for Pakistan. Infact democracy will never happen in Pakistan or anywhere else. We have simply had the same system for the past 55 years which is just the name democracy but with the ruling elite calling the shots. Nothing new but the same old corruption that we have all got used to.
[/QUOTE]

My friend arrived from London. Saw the whole drama. Few hundred Pakistanis were brought from Birmingham for 50 pds each.
One woman was asked about her response. She replied "I'm for Musharraf". BB cannot fool people any longer. Best for her that she remains in Surrey Palace.
PAK SAR ZAMEEN SHAAD BAAD!

15

Fifity pounds each? YA right. :rolleyes:

16

to Sheikh ji,
However if you can find a legitimate Islamic evidence which says a woman can rule then who am i to disagree if it is a good evidence.

I recently posted up an article which no one bothered to read - in the religion forum - i think you can look it up under teh post by husnain called Dear PYARICGUDIA

It SYSTEMATICALLY debunks the hadith. There is more to hadith than just blindly believing as its WELL KNOWN that a lot are not known to be 100 percent authentic, but are not thrown out since there is not overwhelming evidence against them. But again, we're only imperfect followers and human bias plays in.

Actually there is a surah in the Quran in which Queen Sheba's leadership is accepted by God. I'll try looking up the reference, but the article does explain it.

If God accepted Queen sheba, who are we to reject female leadership?

why this hadith hasn't been thrown out because of this Quranic ayah, I do not know. If you want something to be done your way because of certain cultural biases, then you'll find any excuse to have your way. Someone probably came up with a theory of why the Queen sheba thing doesn't invalidate the hadith. Its probably worth looking up.

17

the only time I feel bugged is that we have to own up to people like beny..and nawaazoo and the embarassing list is endless…no sense of words or or the art of speech delivery..they all end up frothing at their mouth..:hehe: and banda kehta hai bijli chalee jai ya T.V ko band kar den…kiya karen gar na karen chaak gireban..:slight_smile: