Hasnain if you’ll be returning (as i haven’t seen you post for a while)& Abu Muhammed if you’re reading this, i have a few questions i would like to ask.
Firstly, my main concern is to distinguish between the people on this forum. What kind of people do we have here? There are several views and opinions being thrown around, so how can i differentiate between the sources and who should i take from when it comes to matters of Islam?
Dear John,
The problem your having is an interesting one. It arises out of the common mistake both Muslims and non-Muslims make when categorizing Islam as a 'mono-lithic' religion. Islam like Christianity has grown into a diverse religion, with a wide variety of sects and schools of thought within those sects.
Muslims agree (for the most part) on the authenticity of the Qur'an and the 'oneness of God' - Muslims are staunch unitarians. On much else they differ in their views, even within one sect you will find a variety of opinions on matters.
Here in this forum, you will find this variety. Muslims here (in simplistic terms, to get into an actual full description would take up volumes in books) can be broken down into these groups:
1) Sunni Muslim - often called orthodox Muslims. They follow both the Qur'an and the Sunnah (practices of Prophet Muhammad as narrated in 'hadith' literature). They also place a great deal of significance on the actions of the companions of Prophet Muhammad (specifically their actions after Prophet Muhammad's death). These companions are Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali. Examples of Sunni's on this forum are Xtreme, Abdullah, and me.
2) Shia Muslims - they to follow the practices of Muhammad, according to their Imams/Ayatullah's interpretation of Hadith (sayings and deeds of the Prophet) and follow the Qur'an. They also place a substantial amount of significance to the Prophet Muhammad's beloved cousin Ali, his wife (Prophet Muhammad's daughter) Fatima and their children, Hassan and Hussein. Examples of Shia on this forum include AliAbbas.
3) Qadiani - I don't really know much about the Qadiani belief. Currently there seems to be a war of sorts going on in the forum between followers of the Sunni Islam and Qadiani's. As far as I know the Qadianis' attribute some significance to Mirza Gulam Qadiani. Who appeared in the late 1800's (I believe) and claimed Messiahship, some argue Prophethood. The majority of the Muslim world labelled him an imposter, this created friction, which is more than evidant here on the forum. Examples of Qadianis on this forum include, Jewels, Zalim, and Mirza Yasir.
4) Non-Muslims - we also have a number of non-Muslims who contribute to the posts here. These include Queer, NY Ahmadi and others. There posts are also valuable here.
Each of these groups have a varying opinion within themselves. My brief descriptions of each group doesn't actually do justice to them, and I apoligize for over-simplifying and encourage others to correct my mistakes.
At any rate, hope that helps (although it may confuse).
Achtung ;)
I should add that, in my personal opinion, if you wish to understand Islam, it would probably be best to understand the Qur'an. The Qu'ran is universally accepted by all Muslims, regardless of sect as the authentic word of God.
If you want to understand the practices of Muslims today - which often differ from what is dictated in the Qur'an - you may want to align yourself with one sect.
Out of my own personal bias, I would say that you should understand Islam, according to the Sunni interpretation. As the majority of Muslims in the world today are Sunni (I don't know exact figures, but I would estimate at over 85% perhaps 90%). From their you can start to read up on other groups.
But if you don't wish to link yourself with one group over another, the Qur'an is a great place to start.
Achtung ;)
John,
I am a liberal follower of Islam; not associated with Fundamentalist Islam or Ahmedia Islam.
Please read my posts on:
1)HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES AGAINST WOMEN
2)HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES - MIDDLE EAST
3)TALEBAN-IS THIS THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM?
and, also a thread which was originally started in the General section of the Forum and now re-started in the Politics section:
4)OUR KILLING FIELDS.
Welcome to the Forum and looking forward!
Regards,
Abdulmalick
[This message has been edited by Adbulmalick (edited May 07, 1999).]
John,
Forgive me for not responding sooner, as i was unable to due to some circumstances that arose.
It would have been nice if Abu Muhammed was around to answer your questions, particularly as he was amongst the most knowledgeable in this forum. However, as I’m sure you’ve noticed, it’s been a long time since he posted ... his presence is greatly missed. But Alhamdulillaah (all praise is due to Allaah), we still have brother Abdulla.
With regards to your questions, this forum has many ‘faces’ - some masked while others more honest, first and foremost with themselves, and then with others. No doubt there is immense sadness in the fact that we as Muslims claim to belong to one religion and one nation, yet we hold so many contrasting and diverse views.
As you pointed out, there are several types of people who populate this forum. Unfortunately from my experience, the ones upon the correct understanding of the Religion are only few in number, while those calling out are many.
My greatest respect goes out for those who are trying their best to adhere to the Qur’aan and Sunnah (way of the Prophet peace be upon him) through the understanding of the Salaf (pious predecessors), the first of whom were the Companions of Muhammad (peace be upon him). These are the people you can take from. I also have an utmost respect for those who are sincerely trying to learn more about Islaam. These people may not submit many postings, but they are willing to accept the truth when it comes to them.
Then come the rest. Those who present topics backed up with authentic proofs, but do not practice what they preach, as one can see from their behaviour in other forums. There are also others who occasionally post, but only for the sake of being ‘heard’ no matter how contradictory their beliefs are with Islaam.
However, amongst the worst category of people are those who reject authentic ahadeeth (sayings and actions of the Prophet peace be upon him) because it does not support their personal desires. They give precedence to unIslaamic quotes and ideologies, over those narration’s brought to us by the companions, just to defend their own arguments no matter how false. There may be some truth in what they say, and Qur’anic versus quoted here and there, but this is simply a part of their deception. They will approach you with the most elegant manners, yet only on a superficial level. They are even prepared to go to extremes while interpreting versus of the Qur’an according to their own views, rather than of a far greater understanding, namely that of Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companions. They fool others by their broad vocabulary together with their brilliant language skills. For these are the most dangerous.
John, I sincerely advise you to be aware and be cautious of such people. They are prepared to debate for days on ends just to propagate their own beliefs, and will not accept the truth even if it were the only option. Although they may seem amongst the most eloquent and beautiful in speech, they in fact are the true innovators. The Prophet peace be upon him continuously reminded us: "... every newly invented matter in the Deen (religion) is misguidance, and every misguidance is going astray, and going astray is in the Hell Fire." [Bukhaari].
My friend, be careful of whom you take from.
[This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited May 20, 1999).]
Hasnain & Achtung,
All one has to do is look around at the present muslim world - it has literally gone mad. Islam of the majority of muslims who are Fundamentalists practise a distorted & primitive intrepretations of Islam, and the modern world is fast realizing that Fundamental Islam is no longer a religion, rather a political movement, using extremist intrepretation of Islam to commit their heinous crime and genocide against fellow muslims, women and other minorities.
... And this is precisely why, as Muslims we need to return to the Qur'aan and Sunnah, as understtod, explained and interpretted by the Companions radhi'Allaahu anhum, who received their understanding from the Prophet salallaahu alaihi wassalam.
Might i ask how you define Fundamentalism? Because everything, not just religion is based on fundamentals. It is the foundation and grounding of any belief, ideology and theory.
A Muslim must adhere to the fundementals of Islaam (the foremost being the shahada) to be a Muslim. If he/she does not bear witness that their is no God worthy of worship besides Allaah, and that Muhammad is His Slave and Messenger, then one cannot be considered a Muslim.
regards
ok
NY Ahmadi,
No, i was not implying what you have suggested. This is why i used the words 'seem' and 'amongst', because in reality they are far more damaging. They give a false sense of religious security.
On the contrary to what you depicted, there are some people out there upon the correct understanding of Islaam who articulate their views very well. But this is in the minority with only a very small percentage. However, there are many many more people who claim to know Islaam, but are calling to something other than Islaam, and because of their good communication skills and deception, they lead others astray.
As i mentioned in one of my other posts, we are living in a time of trials and tribulations, where the callers are many, but those upon the truth are very small in number.
However, whomsoever sicerely wants to be guided, will be guided out of the Mercy of Allaah.
... And Allaah knows Best
Hasnain,
I have written on this subject matter quite a few times on this Forum that MAJORITY ISLAM OR FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM IS OUTDATED, PRIMITIVE & EXTREME.
I do not question the Fundamentals of Sunni or Shias here; however, I do, VERY STRONGLY, question the intrepretations of the Sunni (Majority Muslims and Fundamentalists)on the issue surrounding:
1)NON-BELIEVERS (kafirs),
2)JIHAD(holy war) & PARADISE,
3)HUMAN RIGHTS.
The Sunni mullahs & ulemas clearly state & propagate: Anyone who reject Sunni intrepretations of Islam is a kafir or Non-believer; and a kafir is jahanammi(condemned to Hell).
Since Sunnis are Jahanatti (Destined for Heaven) - their battles or Jihad against non-believers are just and ordained by none other than Allah (God). And, for their battles against non-believers, they will be rewarded eternal Heaven with virgin females for their pleasure.
Examples: (1)Taleban of Afghanistan bent on establishing an purist Islamic State - the Taleban has clearly stated that it considers other muslims (non-Sunnis) of Afghanistan as kafir or non-believer and will not share power with infidels.
(2)Pakistan: Sunni fascist para-military groups (Sipah-i-Sabah, etc) have been waging murderous war against the Shia & Ahmedia muslims, Christians & Hindu population of Pakistan for years. The Sunni factions have stated that they perceive Shias & Ahmedias and other minorities as kafirs or Non-believers.
(3) Sudan, Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Indonesia: Reports of barbarism committed against innocent civilians, Muslims & Christians, by Islamic Fundamentalist groups bent on establishing their brand of extremist Islam at any cost.
(4) Individuals like Sheikh Omar Bin Laden, Mullah Sheikh Abdel Rehman, responsible for bombings in US and at US targets abroad, are followers of Fundamentalist Islam who see USA as an infidel country.
It is worthy of note that the above incidents of terror are not random, they are carefully planned & executed with broad based support.
(5) Rejection of the Universal Code of Human Rights: Islamic code of Sharia and Human Rights are DEFICIENT in equal or comparable rights and protection for females & minorities; Majority of Islamic countries have rejected revisions that would safeguard human right guarantees for females and minorities.
(6) The followers of Fundamentalist Islam are indoctrinated to believe that criticism of "their Islam which God has perfected for them" or its activities is kufr or sin. Those who choose to speak out are quickly ostracized and threatened with violence.
I'll have more to say later; Please review my threads posted in the Religious Affairs:
i)HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES AGAINST WOMEN,
ii)HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES - MIDDLE EAST,
iii)TALEBAN--IS THIS THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM?
iv)MULLAH SHEIKH ABDEL REHMAN-NO SHORTAGE OF EMULATORS,
Also, in the General Section:
i)OUR KILLING FIELDS,
ii)URGENT APPEAL!
Thank you.