Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Ehsan Bhaijan, *I have done my research as you requested. *

In 1971, after a brief civil war and invasion by India, East Pakistan split away and became Bangladesh. President Yahya Khan resigned, and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the deputy premier and foreign minister, became president.

It was in his capacity as Yahya's Foreign Minister, that Bhutto went to UN and tore up the Polish Resolution that would have saved a united Pakistan.

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

^ Yes he became foreign minister at the last moment when the military junta was desperate and wanted someone with international repute to represent Pakistan. He was NOT a permanent foreign minister in his govt. That was the difference.

As for saving Pakistan by virtue of a polish resolution in the UN when Indian forces were just outside Dhaka is wishful thinking and living in a dream world.

So far we have established two things that Pakistan would have been saved if Bhutto had not said "idhar hum, Udhar tum" and if he had not tore the UN resolution. Wish life was that simple.

The rest of the matters like the military not handing power over to Mujib and throwing him in prison are minor compared to the above two incidents by Bhutto.

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

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factually incorrect. Do some research. Bhutto was not part of the Yahya military junta
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Yes he became foreign minister at the last moment when the military junta
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Ehsan Bhaijan, it is good to see that you are learning from Aalsi tonight. He not only became a foreign minister, he was the deputy prime minister under Yahya, and succeeded him as Chief Martial Law Administrator (CMLA). :)

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Representing your country to get our of a mess created by the military is one thing part of being the govt is quite another. he was never a permanent part of the govt. Maybe as I am learning from you tonight you could quote me the number of years Bhutto served as foreign minister under Yahya.

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

^ Bhaijan, are you saying Bhutto has never served as a foreign minister under a military junta? :)

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

ZAB served in Ayub’s military junta in various portfolios between 1958 and 1966 - 8 long years.

http://www.storyofpakistan.com/person.asp?perid=P019

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

The point was Yahya not Ayub.

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

^^ You have that nick and you are a supporter of bhutto.. :hinna:

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Well he was the bungling defence minister under ayub and it was in this office that he cooked up the biggest military blunder in Pakistan's history, more ignominious then even Kargil, operation gibraltar...

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

At least he didn't gift part of Pakistan to India, unlike some who kept their tradition of pathetically incompetent ways.

He was the foreign minister not defense minster.

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

I don't know how it was Zia's fault that out of the blue some Indian colonel decided to occupy an area which was unmarked, uninhabitable and one of harshest in the world...I know you believe Bhutto was omnipotent and omnipresent, but I will admit Zia had no such capabilities...he could not have been present on the unmarked border in Siachin on that fateful day on '84 to beat back the Indian expeditionary force...Furthermore, he certainly could not have been the fool to think up operation gibraltar and other much more profound blunders either....namely, the tearing of poland resolution, which called for cease fire and and an end to hostilities on the eastern front way before the total rout of PA...telling mujib idhar hum udhar tum...the disasterous Simla agreement....nationalizing of industries, thereby uprooting Pakistan's industrial base, from which Pakistan still hasn't recovered...introducing authocratic tactics in Pakistan's politics, which including arrests and assassinations of his political opponents and creation of secret police...conducting egregious and shameful rigged election to stay in power...and the list goes on and on...all of these actions have had a direct and profound negative effect on the Pakistan's socio-economic viability...they are not a secondary consequence or side affects of an action(s) taken to co-opt another primary problem...these actions were taken to sustain an insatiable appetite for absolute power and to fuel a psychotic meglomania....

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Sa1eem,

Educated and very interesting observations, with one correction. Bhutto may have damaged our economy, political structure and most importantly education sector but he cannot be blamed for the loot and plunder of banks and industries, that credit goes to Zia who used them to pass favors to his cronies. Banks were used to dish out loans to Zia's cronies (Sharifs, Chaudhries and many more) that were later written off as bad debt. Similarly, nationalized Industries were taken over by the Fauji/Shaheen foundations instead of the original owners, once again another method to appease Zia's political supporters and his army foundation.

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Getting loans is and never was a problem...it is when they are written off in the last 6 years...100 bn worth were written off, compare to only 30 billion in the 15 years from 84 to 99...

The biggest embezelment and corruption happened after BB returned in '89...lets not pin all the ills in the history mankind on Zia...

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Bhutto’s butchery of the 1973 constiution.
http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articletext.asp?artid=A073&Pg=2

Third Amendment - the rights of the detained were limited.

Fourth Amendment - powers and jurisdiction of the courts for providing relief to political opponents were curtailed.

Fifth Amendment - curtailed the power and jurisdiction of the Judiciary.

Sixth Amendment - extended term of Chief Justices of SC and HC’s beyond the age of retirement. This was made to favor the then Chief Justice of the Supreme Court who was supposed to be a friend of Bhutto.

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Does the hypocrisy from Mush/MQM supporters ever end??

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Good to see what a great champion of democracy ZAB was :slight_smile:

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

Does the hypocrisy from bhutto / PPP supporters ever end??

:nahnah:

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

ZAB fancied himself a Nazi. Zia put him in his place. :k:

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

wait..when Mush becomes indefensible, we bring another dictator back from the dead and start praising him? Dont believe this. I always had the idea that history's already passed a judgment on Ayub's legacy in the shape of Bangladesh. oh well.

Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?

http://dawn.com/2007/06/14/letted.htm#1

I was a junior USAF officer with the office of the US air attache at the old US embassy in Karachi at the time of the 1965 Rann of Kutch battle(s). In fact, I was wounded on an innocent boar hunt in a PIA Land Rover, as the guest of Pakistani friends and business acquaintances who were key PIA officials, as we drove through this area on Jan 31, 1965.

A surprise Indian tank shell blew another Pakistani truck coming towards us in the marsh area, injuring all of us pretty badly.

This said, I have read much of the history of the 1965 India-Pakistan war, but also lived there during that war to have been “on the scene” literally.

This wordy preamble aside, foreign minister Bhutto largely engineered the foolish events that caused or incited the 1965 war. Ayub Khan had to have known what was going on, but his chief ‘goader’, if you will, into this war was Bhutto.

Neither Air Marshal Asghar Khan nor the chief of the Pakistan Navy was involved in the 1965 war pre-planning or early on execution of that war by Mr Bhutto and the then Pakistan Army chief of staff. The air marshal rightly and sanely telephoned his Indian counter-part to immediately do what he and they could to limit this sudden, unexpected hot conflict which was not expected by the air marshal of Pakistan or the chief of the Pakistan Navy.

In my view, living there at the time, I saw and still see Air Marshal Khan as a hero of immense proportions for his brave actions to limit and damp down the start of this ill- fated war as quickly as he could.

The 1965 war was a monstrously dumb move on the part of Mr Bhutto and the Pakistani Army chief of staff’s who clearly initiated the whole war.

Your letter writer jumps to a wrong conclusion about Air Marshal Ashgar Khan, who I had met several times between 1963 and 1965 at my headquarters in Peshawar, the old US air base there. I was the USAF base liaison officer in the US embassy in Karachi.

In fact, Air Marshal Khan promptly resigned in protest over this unwarranted and wasteful war in 1965 which he had no part in planning or starting. Subsequently, the air marshal entered politics, was elected to your national legislature, was briefly jailed by his political opponent, Mr Bhutto, and then lost elective office. The air marshall has authored over 28 books, some related to this 1965 war, which the letter writer might want to read or re -read to be better informed.

COL (r) GEORGE L. SINGLETON, USAF,
Alabama, USA