Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
^ Yeah, just like creation of OIC... one would think that you of all people will appreciate it.
Besides, it was better that we do not have bangladesh to drag our economy (whatever is left) even further.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
like the creation of Bangla Desh.
Indeed. If anyone asks what Bhutto was famous for, people can quote, 'Udhar tum, Idhar hum' as an answer.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
Bhutto party won 3 out of 7 Karachi seats in 1970. I believe that if Bhutto did not fu*ked up Pakistan economy and not alienated people of Karachi by his policies, Bhutto would have stayed one of the most popular persons in Karachi. So what? I believe that one should be neutral when judging a person and what that person did.
Thats a separate issue, it's an open secret that ZAB was treated a lot worse because he was Sindhi..many of the judges and others involved have more or less said so..
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
Indeed. If anyone asks what Bhutto was famous for, people can quote, 'Udhar tum, Idhar hum' as an answer.
Again, it is better that we do not have bangladesh to drag us down. Just to put the responsibility of the partition on bhutto's shoulder is gross misjudgment. Pakistani army had a huge part in the separation and are directly responsible for the hatred and alienation between the two sides.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
bhutto did have a part to play in it right, u are right we can nto blame him 100% for it, but we can not absolve him 100% either
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
Thats a separate issue, it's an open secret that ZAB was treated a lot worse because he was Sindhi..many of the judges and others involved have more or less said so..
treated a lot worse..by whom?
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
Intetresting. Can you let me know which industries were nationalised in the UK during that period. I am here to learn. JazakAllah Khairan.
British rail is an example.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
by nationalising industry, banking , insurance as well as education, bhutto literally destroyed the growth of the private sector.. leading to inefficient and loss making institutions.. see how they have all improved since being privatised... by his nationalisation bhutto literally set us back 20 years economically
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
British rail is an example.
What an example. How come? British Rail was Nationalised in 1948 (that at the time was considered as essential service and of strategic concerns) and then Privatised in 1994-1996. UK nationalised industries that were going bankrupt (or could have gone bankrupt) and were of strategic concerns, thus their survival and existence was important for the country.
Bhutto did not nationalised industries because they were going bankrupt and their existence was national strategic requirements. Bhutto nationalized industries that were big and were running in profit, but Bhutto wanted to break industrialist influences and to give jobs to his workers without merit, resulting in complete destruction of those industries.
For instance, Pakistan shipping industry at one time was envy of developing countries. Pakistan had dozens of ships sailing under Pakistani flag and after taking care of all Pakistani trade, was providing services to other countries of the region. Bhutto nationalised shipping industry resulting in complete destruction of Pakistani shipping industry. PNSC as government run shipping company was always running on loss became almost bankrupt. Within few years of nationalisation, Pakistan started depending on foreign ships for Pakistani trades. Now, no one wants to start shipping company using Pakistani flag. Today, most ships owned by Pakistanis are registered in Panama or other countries. Thus today, Pakistan spends several billion dollars on shipping cost for Pakistani trades alone.
Pakistani banking industry was progressing fast and was again envy of developing world. Banks like Habib Bank, United Bank, Muslim commercial Bank, Allied bank etc were growing fast, but Bhutto nationalised banking industry resulting in creating incompetent banking service used for give jobs to political workers and take political loans (to get written off later). The person that started UBL (Agha Hasan Abdi) who could have taken UBL to world top bank height, was sacked (later he started Bank of Credit and Commercial International, that at time became biggest privately held bank, but as it started bailing out some third world countries, especially some south American countries against western political interest, due to western conspiracy was declared bankrupt). Nevertheless, Pakistan banking suffered and all banks started incurring huge losses, and were surviving on government bailouts.
Instead of improving public sector education institutions, Bhutto nationalized most privately held schools and colleges that affected education standard of Pakistanis, such that at one time, Pakistan education standard became almost zero. It also stopped all private funds coming into education and shattered the confidence of investors investing in Pakistani education sector. Private fund started coming back into education sector when Zia allowed that.
Actually, Bhutto nationalized many industries resulting in them getting destroyed in public hand under incompetent management and corruption (in private sector, an employee or manager cannot do corruption not could be incompetent, as owners are always looking at things and would sack incompetents and corrupts and could even send corrupt managers to jail).
Overall effect was that, many industrialists became bankrupt, many left Pakistan never to invest in Pakistan again, and no new industry got started in Pakistan, other then some politically motivated public industries (that were marred with corruption). Thus, in this way Bhutto destroyed Pakistan industrial and education sector both.
When Zia came, people confidence returned (not completely but to an extend) and that is when new industry really got started in private sectors again, that started giving boost to Pakistan economy, and that is the reason we see GDP growth of Pakistan becoming reasonable after ousted of Bhutto and arrival of Zia.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
What an example. How come? British Rail was Nationalised in 1948 (that at the time was considered as essential service and of strategic concerns) and then Privatised in 1994-1996. UK nationalised industries that were going bankrupt (or could have gone bankrupt) and were of strategic concerns, thus their survival and existence was important for the country.
Very ture. Bhutto tried to make "mazdoors" the "malik" of the factories.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
by nationalising industry, banking , insurance as well as education, bhutto literally destroyed the growth of the private sector.. leading to inefficient and loss making institutions.. see how they have all improved since being privatised... by his nationalisation bhutto literally set us back 20 years economically
Bhattu nationalized these institutions for the bharti of his unqualified and incompetent jialays and its the legacy of this blunder, which has rendered all gov't run/owned institutions, companies and industries woefully inefficient, loss-making and bankrupt...
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
bhutto was good and no doubt popular leader pakistan has produced,
the only problem with this leader was he was too obsessed with himself, giving power to Mujeeb could have saved us by breaking Quids Pakistan.
One cant get away with oh BD was dragging us backwards!! there are many parts of country are poor than others, it doesnt mean you need to get rid of that part but it require more attention from the centre.
His power hungriness didnt give power to Mujeeb who won the majority votes.
After breaking Pakistan, he embarked on nationalise every major private industry. It may have pleased a few in people. Overall Pakistan industrial development stalled on all sectors, private investors fled the country, moved assets and money from Pak.
Economy that was example for many in Asia turned into disaster off illplaned socialist state.
All the major dams were constructed in Ayub era, every major industry set up in his tanure, 50's and 60's are examplary years in Pakistan economy. the nations ie south korea, malaysia who followed those 5 years plans can been tigers in Asian economy. when pakistan put into reverse gear by Bhutto.
Bhutto was a good politician and a leader but failed to acheive best for Pakistan nation cause of his wrong policies, I would have expected best from him if i was in that era.
he has two major projects to his name as initiating those, Nuclear program and Pakistan Steel. but again Both of these wouldnt be possible if the successive governments werent supportive of these. mainly control being left with same people and governed by GHQ was the key of success.
He had a vision but the methods and paths were wrong!
rest of the leaders lacks basic skills of leadership.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
bhutto was good and no doubt popular leader pakistan has produced,
the only problem with this leader was he was too obsessed with himself, giving power to Mujeeb could have saved us by breaking Quids Pakistan.
One cant get away with oh BD was dragging us backwards!! there are many parts of country are poor than others, it doesnt mean you need to get rid of that part but it require more attention from the centre.
His power hungriness didnt give power to Mujeeb who won the majority votes.
After breaking Pakistan, he embarked on nationalise every major private industry. It may have pleased a few in people. Overall Pakistan industrial development stalled on all sectors, private investors fled the country, moved assets and money from Pak.
Economy that was example for many in Asia turned into disaster off illplaned socialist state.
All the major dams were constructed in Ayub era, every major industry set up in his tanure, 50's and 60's are examplary years in Pakistan economy. the nations ie south korea, malaysia who followed those 5 years plans can been tigers in Asian economy. when pakistan put into reverse gear by Bhutto.
Bhutto was a good politician and a leader but failed to acheive best for Pakistan nation cause of his wrong policies, I would have expected best from him if i was in that era.
he has two major projects to his name as initiating those, Nuclear program and Pakistan Steel. but again Both of these wouldnt be possible if the successive governments werent supportive of these. mainly control being left with same people and governed by GHQ was the key of success.
He had a vision but the methods and paths were wrong!
rest of the leaders lacks basic skills of leadership.
That's a very good analysis of Bhutto's time in power.
But in the end he also turned out to be a madman who had his political opponents murdered, killed tens of thousand of Baloch, persecuted the Pakhtun parties, launched a discrimination campaign against mohajirs. In the end not only did all the political parties in Pakistan turn against him, even his most trusted lieutenants like Khar and Jatoi turned castigated him publicly.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
Isn't bhutto a balochi tribe [not indigenous sindhi to begin with]?
Farid, are you saying that bhutto was a dove leading up to that war?
I need your answer before i say something else.. :D
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
I think Bhutto tribe is Rajput or Jatt tribe, that settled in Sindh long time ago.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
I think Bhutto tribe is Rajput or Jatt tribe, that settled in Sindh long time ago.
Yup, that is correct, and that is what Stanley Wolpert wrote in his book about ZAB.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
bhutto was good and no doubt popular leader pakistan has produced,
the only problem with this leader was he was too obsessed with himself, giving power to Mujeeb could have saved us by breaking Quids Pakistan.
One cant get away with oh BD was dragging us backwards!! there are many parts of country are poor than others, it doesnt mean you need to get rid of that part but it require more attention from the centre.
His power hungriness didnt give power to Mujeeb who won the majority votes.
After breaking Pakistan, he embarked on nationalise every major private industry. It may have pleased a few in people. Overall Pakistan industrial development stalled on all sectors, private investors fled the country, moved assets and money from Pak.
Economy that was example for many in Asia turned into disaster off illplaned socialist state.
All the major dams were constructed in Ayub era, every major industry set up in his tanure, 50's and 60's are examplary years in Pakistan economy. the nations ie south korea, malaysia who followed those 5 years plans can been tigers in Asian economy. when pakistan put into reverse gear by Bhutto.
Bhutto was a good politician and a leader but failed to acheive best for Pakistan nation cause of his wrong policies, I would have expected best from him if i was in that era.
he has two major projects to his name as initiating those, Nuclear program and Pakistan Steel. but again Both of these wouldnt be possible if the successive governments werent supportive of these. mainly control being left with same people and governed by GHQ was the key of success.
He had a vision but the methods and paths were wrong!
rest of the leaders lacks basic skills of leadership.
So the military leadership which was in power had no role at all to play in this break up? everyone including the military is to be blamed, those who think that Pakistan was so fragile that Bhutto in his speech said "Udhar tum Idhar hum" and Pakistan broke up need to think again. Military made him the scapegoat to hide its own shortcomings and blunders. Where was the mighty Yahya and his corps commanders when Mujib was asking for transfer of power. Was Bhutto holding a gun to their heads. Why didn't they transfer power to Mujib and let the elected govt deal with Bhutto. The truth because they wanted to hold on to power themselves.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
well said :k:
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
bhutto was good and no doubt popular leader pakistan has produced,
the only problem with this leader was he was too obsessed with himself, giving power to Mujeeb could have saved us by breaking Quids Pakistan.
One cant get away with oh BD was dragging us backwards!! there are many parts of country are poor than others, it doesnt mean you need to get rid of that part but it require more attention from the centre.
His power hungriness didnt give power to Mujeeb who won the majority votes.
After breaking Pakistan, he embarked on nationalise every major private industry. It may have pleased a few in people. Overall Pakistan industrial development stalled on all sectors, private investors fled the country, moved assets and money from Pak.
Economy that was example for many in Asia turned into disaster off illplaned socialist state.
All the major dams were constructed in Ayub era, every major industry set up in his tanure, 50's and 60's are examplary years in Pakistan economy. the nations ie south korea, malaysia who followed those 5 years plans can been tigers in Asian economy. when pakistan put into reverse gear by Bhutto.
Bhutto was a good politician and a leader but failed to acheive best for Pakistan nation cause of his wrong policies, I would have expected best from him if i was in that era.
he has two major projects to his name as initiating those, Nuclear program and Pakistan Steel. but again Both of these wouldnt be possible if the successive governments werent supportive of these. mainly control being left with same people and governed by GHQ was the key of success.
He had a vision but the methods and paths were wrong!
rest of the leaders lacks basic skills of leadership.
Shak bhaijan, excellent post.
People also forget that Zulfikar Bhutto was very much part of the Yahya government and threatened the break the legs of his own party MP's if they dared attend the meeting of the Pakistan parliament in Dhaka.
Also, when Yahya resigned, Bhutto declared himself the Chief Martial Law Administrator (CMLA) of Pakistan.
Re: Destroyed by Z.A Bhutto - the golden economic legacy left by Ayub Khan?
Shak bhaijan, excellent post.
People also forget that Zulfikar Bhutto was very much part of the Yahya government and threatened the break the legs of his own party MP's if they dared attend the meeting of the Pakistan parliament in Dhaka.
Also, when Yahya resigned, Bhutto declared himself the Chief Martial Law Administrator (CMLA) of Pakistan.
factually incorrect. Do some research. Bhutto was not part of the Yahya military junta, he went to UN as Pakistan's representative not as a member of Yahya govt. There is a difference. Doesn't matter if he had threatened to break the legs of his party men. The point is Mujib won the elections, Military were incharge of the govt., they should have handed power over to the elected PM, they refused and jailed Mujib, Bhutto did not.