Designers and Negative Criticism

[PyariCgudia]

So, how many of you think our designers cannot handle negative criticism?

Like for example, I think 99% of the stuff being churned out by home designers here, is all crap. They’re taking you for a run, honies. You can buy the cloth and get the stitching and embroidery done for much less in Pakistan, as long as you have a family member who can get it done for you.

Not realistic for many people here, so designers often charge an arm and a leg for a suit with some sequins sewed on.

I find, when I go to Pakistani boutiques, that

1. They use cheap cloth, to maximize profit

2. They use minimal embroidery for what you’re paying. You can get more quality embroidery done if you seek out a karidar yourself.

3. Designs are often copied from Indian designers, or off each other.

4. Fittings are not done properly - some designers don’t even offer adjustments and alterations.

5. Customer service is crap. Most salesman hired (or the designers themselves) are more busy talking on the phone or playing with their video games than really trying to sell you anything. You are told “lehna hai tho lau, otherwise, you can see yourself out”.

6. Are classist - will give you first line treatment if they know you’re some doc from America, but if you wear your average Pakistani clothes and walk into a boutique, you are treated like street trash.

Yet for all their unprofessionalism, poor service, and lack of quality in their clothes, you say one thing about them, and they like to say their lawyer is going to sue you.

?

I say, ladies, we start our own realistic consumer reviews (objective) on various designers. And if you really think something is rubbish - just say it is.

I’d like to hear from the women who live in Pakistan and who frequent these boutiques themselves.

I’ll start.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

Ideas by Gul Ahmed : Karachi

GA started this store some years ago, which I came across on a shopping spree during my holidays in America. Now being a fairly simple girl, I dress simply. I probably should put more effort into my make-up and hair, but when you’re travelling and running a tight schedule and shopping in a short period of time, I personally dont’ have time to sit in a parlor every day before my shopping spree. So, yes, I will enter your boutique with a pair of chappals, a simple shalwaar kameez and my hair tied up in a bun. I shop looking like a rat in America, and still get good customer service, so if you’re going to charge me 6000 ruppees for a jora my maasi can make, you better give me good customer service.

So, I walk into Ideas, and my experience was fairly pleasant. The business is run by a family long entrenched in the textile business. Fashion, for them, is a business as well as an art, just as it is for a number of other worldly designers. The folks at Gul Ahmed not only have experience, but they hire trained stylists and businessmen who know how to sell their art.

Not surprisingly, when I walked into Ideas, the entire set-up was made to…well… sell.

I was not mistreated by staff. They were very helpful, despite my shabby appearance. They had a variety of designs and the quality of their cloth and embroidery was fantastic. No sequins hanging out of place. No loose stitches. No tugging at the seam lines. Arrangements were available for alterations without additional charge.

Their garments were spaced out well, so you could walk around without feeling like you were in a cramped space. They had accessories on sale, which were manufactured in-house. They also had a pleasant array of bed-ware, all made from their own textile mills.

All in all, the experience of shopping at Ideas is fantastic. I only wish they had a fitting room and a website that works, for international shoppers.

Website: http://www.ideas.com.pk

[Sara516]

Like for example, I think 99% of the stuff being churned out by home designers here, is all crap. They're taking you for a run, honies. *You can buy the cloth and get the stitching and embroidery done for much less in Pakistan, as long as you have a family member who can get it done for you. * .

Which home-based designers are you talking about? There are a few home based desingers who have been very successful on gupshup.

If that was an option or if we had relatives....there would be no need for home-based designers adn tailors here. but the fact is that when most of us go visit Pakistan we do not have the time or patience or energy to go: buy teh cloth, get it dyed, get the kaam done on it, get it stitched. We dont have family members or relatives who can get us what we want. If htey send it to you as a gifT (as I frequently do), it wnt be good to complain. If we pay and we still get garbage back, then we'll feel cheated but you cant exactly say your relative or in-law ripped you off.

So if I go to a home-based designer, I dont mind paying the extra money because I know what I'll be getting in return.

Let me clarify: i'm talking about home-based designers such as prototype or cyma345, NOT big-name designers like karma etc.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

Not sure what they are charging, but based on the photos, their clothes don't look like good imitations of the real thing.

[design_affairs]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

well doesnt it really depend on who you go to for getting your clothes made. Just like in Pakistan depending on which shop u go to get work done, it can turn out fabulous or a total mess. For people who live abroad and dont have people back home to do all the leg work, these home based designers are doing a huge service. prices are again a function of how much work is included and I mean all the leg work that goes in this along with the actual kaam done on the out fit.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

But the home designers are not doing ANY of the karigari, and neither are they actually doing any of the stitching. Nearly all that work is being done by some underpaid servant or karigar. Who do not see the bulk of the profit made off that dress.

I can't live with that. I prefer to pay the karigars directly for their work - at least I know the profit is going in the right hands.

[Pareezay]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

In order for you to pay the karigars and tailors directly, you need to buy a ticket to Pakistan and spend alot of time as well as energy chasing around the two.

The home-based designers may not be designing the outfits but they are still the ones running around buying materials, matching stuff, setting and explaining the patterns to the kaam walas, giving and explaining stuff to the tailor, all the while running and driving around, and all that jazz. Karigars and tailors don't just show up at their doorsteps, you know.

Having said that, I get really appalled at the ridiculous prices I see around here that clearly tells you the profit margin is even higher than 50 percent. And they feel no shame charging you so highly because everyone abroad is perceived to have a tree in the backyard that you can shake anytime you need those benjamins. There's only one honest person I have come across here and that's prototype. She will lay out every cost to you, from material to lining to kaam to stitching to shipping, and then tell you what she charges as her profit. That's why I'm her fan.

[TLK]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

See the thing is that, when you are competing in a global market, you will get honest negative reviews and then you will get fake/made-up negative reviews. One should be mature enough to be ready to handle both. Our people for most of the part lacks that maturity.

[Maham]

All i know is that if you want good quality of fabric then you will have to pay for it too. IT'S very simple. But unfortunately its like buyers want good stuff but dont wanna pay for it. That sucks. I have not yet started my work online but had the experience of talking to one of the clients and it just disappoints me so much when people want to take you for a ride.

I have been very honest from the start that i m nt out here to make money, but i wl def charge what my work deserves. I dnt think i can ever do this work as business always cuz i luv it too much n take it as a hobby. I m always designing n styling for my family, relatives n friends even for weddings n i dont charge them anything. It's just with them i have an open budget and they trust my choice. But online i see people want the best stuff but they r not willing 2 trust u and infact want u to just make clothes for them out of yr pocket n that's very unfair.

I know, i myself dont trust people eaisy so i wud be very cautious while doing business online. But when u do like someone work n u know they r not the sorts to cheat then atleast respect them and dont try to play with their talent.

It really turns people like me off from wanting to do work online. I know i have lived in canada for quite a few yrs n though i had family here i still had trouble getting stuff for myself. So ever since then i have always wanted to do something online which wud cater to people like me who want quality stuff n aesthically pleasing stuff. However, from what i have seen of buyers online i have been pretty disappointed with their behavior even if it may have nt directly been with me.

[supersummer]

I have never ordered from big name designers but I have certainly ordered a few things from the home based ones we see on here and I think its very unfair to knock them in such a manner!

I am extremely fussy about my clothes (but I suppose everyone says that) and after doing much research through guppy feedback I have ordered from a few of them and I have to commend them on the quality I have received. Barring one experience they all have all been of a very high standard and i have received many compliments on the outfits too.

Yes I do realize if I went to Pak myself I could probably get these a lot cheaper but then you still have to know where to go and so much leg work goes into the process, it adds a lot of stress to any holiday!!!

** why is it unfair for someone to charge a market rate for a service they provide as you would with any job??**

If I bought the same outfits in my home country I would probably pay double for the same quality so in the end I save anyway.

[Sara516]

@Pareezay

Having said that, I get really appalled at the ridiculous prices I see around here that clearly tells you the profit margin is even higher than 50 percent. And they feel no shame charging you so highly because everyone abroad is perceived to have a tree in the backyard that you can shake anytime you need those benjamins.

It is absolutely crazy. I dont mind paying 150-300 for a formal outfit but its the casual ones that cost an arm and a leg.

There’s one boutique around where I live that sells outfits from Collections boutique in Fortress (in Lahore)…those outfits sell for 1300-2000 Rs at the most, but she was selling them for $50…thats more than double the cost. but its not as bad as this other outfit I have…its one of those ready-made ones that u get stitched to your size. My mother told me she bought it for 800 Rs. The same store had the exact same one for $55!

[midnighteyes]

[QUOTE]

Not sure what they are charging, but based on the photos, their clothes don't look like good imitations of the real thing.

[/QUOTE]

Read the reviews, you will see page after page of satisfied, happy customers. If the customers are thrilled with that they receive, thats the important thing right. They are the ones paying for it and if they love it, then everything works out in the end. And everyone always says, the pictures never do justice to the outfit

But the home designers are not doing ANY of the karigari, and neither are they actually doing any of the stitching. Nearly all that work is being done by some underpaid servant or karigar. Who do not see the bulk of the profit made off that dress. I can't live with that. I prefer to pay the karigars directly for their work - at least I know the profit is going in the right hands.

They may not be doing the karigari or the stitching, but they are still doing a heck of alot. Designing the outfit, buying the fabrics, dying the fabrics, communicating with the karigar and darzi, running around from here to there, overseeing every little detail to make sure nothing gets messed up..etc. Its not an easy job and not everyone could manage that. Yes some people take advantage of their karigar and darzi and work them like a dog and then charge big bucks and pocket all the profit, but not everyone is like that. Homedesigners like Prototype have built quite a good reputation for themselves, off their own honesty and hard work, by consistently delivering high quality products, at decent prices

[PyariCgudia]

Read the reviews, you will see page after page of satisfied, happy customers. If the customers are thrilled with that they receive, thats the important thing right. They are the ones paying for it and if they love it, then everything works out in the end. And everyone always says, the pictures never do justice to the outfit

T*hey may not be doing the karigari or the stitching, but they are still doing a heck of alot. Designing the outfit, buying the fabrics, dying the fabrics, communicating with the karigar and darzi, running around from here to there, overseeing every little detail to make sure nothing gets messed up..etc. Its not an easy job and not everyone could manage that. Yes some people take advantage of their karigar and darzi and work them like a dog and then charge big bucks and pocket all the profit, but not everyone is like that. Homedesigners like Prototype have built quite a good reputation for themselves, off their own honesty and hard work, by consistently delivering high quality products, at decent prices*

But this is my point. Even in this situation, they are not picking the best quality in things. They do this to keep their costs low and profit margins high.

If kaarigars had more education, and therefore had more business sense, they would just do the direct work and sell directly to the consumer abroad through online businesses. The Pakistani gov't does nothing to encourage this growth, and so you have rich homemaker-turned businesswomen in Pakistan playing middlemen and reaping most of the profits. They pay the Kaarigars a pittance of what they earn on each outfit.

And yeah they are running around, but keep in mind, they don't do separate trips for each outfit. They are making these clothes in mass bulk, so you are basically paying them to go shopping, which they would have been doing anyway.

Quite honestly, these home-made businesswomen have it pretty lucky. I'd say their biggest risk is just working in Pakistan, that you never know when a bomb is going to go off somewhere, but I guess everyone is having to deal with that in Pakistan these days.

I'm sorry, I went to some boutiques in Chicago on Devon street with beautiful designs. But the cloth was CRAP. Visibly cheap. The stitching on the suits was done poorly - and you could tell they paid to get the cheapest job done. A seam should be without wrinkles and shouldn't tug. But you see Pakistani made dresses and compare them to Indian manufactured dresses and asmaan-zameen difference.

Speaking of Indian dresses, don't know if you've noticed, but there are shops in Karachi which sell just Indian mass-manufactured shalwaar kameez's. Their workmanship is neat, the seams are neat, and the cloth quality isn't sheer crap. And reasonably priced compared to local Pakistani clothes.

Comon, there can be MASSIVE improvement in quality, and I don't mind paying 300 dollars for a jazzed up outfit - but it better be on the best silk, and it better be FIT perfectly, it better not be tugging at the seams, and the embroidery better not look like some 3rd grader did it.

[DramayBazz]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

^ are you talking from experience from home based designers, regarding the workmanship, stitiching and material ... or from local desi shops here in US? i find the quality of locally available indian dresses in the US really really inferior to those available back home in pakistan. i find the mass-manufactured stuff available in desi hubs like devon in chicago or queens in ny, really shoddy, older designs and colour schemes are mostly an eye-sore. they might appeal to some as a convenient/cheaper alternative but I guess looking at the response of home based designers on GS and their popularity, most ppl don't mind paying a bit more for a personalized service with these designers where everything is made to order and custom specified. the ones charging ridiculous amounts are generally not doing much business here, people are not easily duped these days...its the honest vendors with an open checks and balances policy who are really doing well here.

[prototype]

But this is my point. Even in this situation, they are not picking the best quality in things. They do this to keep their costs low and profit margins high.

If kaarigars had more education, and therefore had more business sense, they would just do the direct work and sell directly to the consumer abroad through online businesses. The Pakistani gov't does nothing to encourage this growth, and so you have rich homemaker-turned businesswomen in Pakistan playing middlemen and reaping most of the profits. They pay the Kaarigars a pittance of what they earn on each outfit.

And yeah they are running around, but keep in mind, they don't do separate trips for each outfit. They are making these clothes in mass bulk, so you are basically paying them to go shopping, which they would have been doing anyway.

Quite honestly, these home-made businesswomen have it pretty lucky. I'd say their biggest risk is just working in Pakistan, that you never know when a bomb is going to go off somewhere, but I guess everyone is having to deal with that in Pakistan these days.

I'm sorry, I went to some boutiques in Chicago on Devon street with beautiful designs. But the cloth was CRAP. Visibly cheap. The stitching on the suits was done poorly - and you could tell they paid to get the cheapest job done. A seam should be without wrinkles and shouldn't tug. But you see Pakistani made dresses and compare them to Indian manufactured dresses and asmaan-zameen difference.

Speaking of Indian dresses, don't know if you've noticed, but there are shops in Karachi which sell just Indian mass-manufactured shalwaar kameez's. Their workmanship is neat, the seams are neat, and the cloth quality isn't sheer crap. And reasonably priced compared to local Pakistani clothes.

Comon, there can be MASSIVE improvement in quality, and I don't mind paying 300 dollars for a jazzed up outfit - but it better be on the best silk, and it better be FIT perfectly, it better not be tugging at the seams, and the embroidery better not look like some 3rd grader did it.

I am confused. You have a first hand experience with LOOKING at 'low quality' outfits at local shops and you are generalizing your experience (which I doubt you have any yet - atleast here) with any home-based designer on this forum ? wow ! And without seeing any of the products in person, just based on the rate-list you know of from your last visit to pakistan atleast 5 yrs back, you cannot say anyone is keeping their cost low and margins high. no one is ignorant of all the prices and fabric quality to keep on paying for rubbish and neither is anyone insisting the customers to buy their stuff in any case.

It is so funny that you think that karigars are charging a 'pittance' here. For any business of this type, people have two options: either hiring a place and making karigars do all the embroidery,etc there, paying them on monthly basis,even if the karigars make one or ten outfit per month (not to mention their smoking,residing,mess and other expenditures PLUS providing them with every single thread and tools that will be used for the embellish work,etc AND uninformed absence for days because someone in their family died for 15th time and other numerous excuses they can make and you can do nothing about them ) OR paying the karigars per piece basis (like I and many other home based designers do) and paying them whatever they want.

anyways, there is no point in explaining anything unless it is made clear whether it is homebased designers or big shot designers or the local boutiques you are talking about:)

[shk_14]

@prototype

I am confused. You have a first hand experience with LOOKING at ‘low quality’ outfits at local shops and you are generalizing your experience (which I doubt you have any yet - atleast here) with any home-based designer on this forum ? wow ! And without seeing any of the products in person, just based on the rate-list you know of from your last visit to pakistan atleast 5 yrs back, you cannot say anyone is keeping their cost low and margins high. no one is ignorant of all the prices and fabric quality to keep on paying for rubbish and neither is anyone insisting the customers to buy their stuff in any case.

It is so funny that you think that karigars are charging a ‘pittance’ here. For any business of this type, people have two options: either hiring a place and making karigars do all the embroidery,etc there, paying them on monthly basis,even if the karigars make one or ten outfit per month (not to mention their smoking,residing,mess and other expenditures PLUS providing them with every single thread and tools that will be used for the embellish work,etc AND uninformed absence for days because someone in their family died for 15th time and other numerous excuses they can make and you can do nothing about them ) OR paying the karigars per piece basis (like I and many other home based designers do) and paying them whatever they want.

anyways, there is no point in explaining anything unless it is made clear whether it is homebased designers or big shot designers or the local boutiques you are talking about:)

:k: good reply proto.
people just come out of bed and say any thing they want thats all i wana say…

[shk_14]

..............

[SaadiaB]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

PCG when was the last time u were in Paksitan ????

The prices have gone up major time and now are near our prices in Europe/USA! Even though workmanship is cheaper but its still quite expensive there.

I dont think these ladies have it good or are in your own words 'pretty lucky' going to a busy bazar is such a heachache and then all the communicating and buying is so tiring .. honestly these ladies are doing it as they love their work and see it as a passion.

For the first time I ordered some casuals from shk here and she did such a good job .. just saw pics and I have to say in my city in pak I would not have gotten them in that price that she did.

Anyway they dont have ot justify to anyone here, all the good experience and words speak for their work and effort, we are LUCKY to have them as I would and can never trust my relatives to meet my taste as she has.

[brummiebird]

Re: Designers and Negative Criticism

well said ladies.

PG i think your post is pretty disingenuous to our HB designers. To say that they are producing "99% crap" says more about you then them to be honest!

YOur post seems a bit confused, The bad service u appear to have got is from shop wallahs and not the HB designers, so to tar them with the same brush aint on.

I am very fussy about my clothes and dont just wear any old "gund koora", and i do know about cheap quality kapra and cheap kissum ka kaam . I have ordered from a number of our HB ladies and NONE of their kapra or quality of kaam was cheap by any standards. their prices are very very competitive. My mum came back from pak a couple of months ago and the prices she was quoting were very high compared to what they used to be a couple of years ago.

Just cuz u dont like there stuff or have got a real downer on them for whatever reason doesnt mean their stuff is rubbish. theres a simple soloution to your problem DONT BUY from them, SIMPL.
but i do agree with one thing you said if people have had a negative experience they need to say so but most of the ladies have got threads open about there service and MA it is very very positive.