Desi Muslim Dating in the West

Lifestyle Relationships
101

Forget it. Dimaagh eating wali baat.

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

who are you to say whats a decent way and what is not? have you never done anything that's unislamic?

[quote]
Also...what the heck is the correlation between cell phones being stolen and premarital sex?! I'm confused.
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you're confused because you are not reading the whole post but just looking at few words here and there and trying to find a link between me and some other poster apparently who you assume is also me..

the correlation simply meant that a country where there are serious moral and ethical problems, a country where normal average citizens are taking away the rights and security of others, why is it so surprising that premarital sex is a common thing??
you seem to not understand but feel the need to post baseless replies which make no sense.

103

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

i lived in pakistan and i dont care to prove to you. i think you're a troll and have never lived in pakistan because you are too unaware of whats going on. what nonsense have I said about pakistan? i think you seem to post too much baseless ridiculous things that make no sense.
and just because i type like a certain member, it means i am him?? lol. you sound like many other people that have posted on this thread so i should assume you are them? but i could care less whether you think i am shawn or not.

for one millionth time, and this time, please read before responding:

I am not stating whether 10%, 20%, 50% or any percent of pakistanis date or have premarital sex*. ALL i am saying is that there is no proof how many do and how many dont, since no data can be collected because it's a hidden thing, no one will admit to it, not even to their friends and families. * so if anyone says that "i live in pakistan, and i dont know anyone whos not a virgin before marriage', is living in a fools paradise. j**ust because no one ever told you that they have done things in the past, you dont know if they have. **in my experience, plenty of people date and have relations before marriage. do i know exactly what % of pakitanis do it? no. do you know how many ?

104

I apologize, bella88.

105

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

have you been a doctor in pakistan seeing tons of girls trying to get an abortion or birthcontrol? my mother has. try getting to know a gynecologist who has practiced for many years in a major city like perhaps karachi. she will tell you how many unmarried girls get on birthcontrol how many try to attempt abortion. and these girls are not limited to one particular socioecononomic status either, they ranged from lower middle, middle and upper class.
again, this doesn't mean majority of girls do, but simply that its much more common than what we think. is it just as much as western countries? probably not. but is it an uncommon thing thats rarely done? i highly doubt it, but i donot have evidence just like you dont have evidence that it's uncommon.

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

And your proof is based on people you know or actually your mom knew. Because you are exempt from what the other poster is not? right? And the funniest part is tellingthe poster , girls won’t share their dating stories with you because you seem a bit judgmental kinda like maya khan. LOLz.
hey pinks how did it feel like being told that?

This is one of your proofs. A trashy piece of news from a certain blog. And that too tells the videos were made to black mail girls.

So you only apologized for generalizing all muslim men. But WHY NOT for BEGERAT PAKISTANI MEN. Someone hand me over my hanky. my tears.
Bella why its not okay when zetsui generalizes, but why its fine when you do. What is Shawnays fault.

entire post(from begairati thread) was interesting, but the bolded part stood out the most. So you finally got exact stats for something.

I am not denying the evils existing in our society . But wait wasn’t this thread about Desi Muslim Dating in West.
So how is it some people got hell bent on proving the dating scene and the rest in Pakistan. Why bella is so enthusiastic on proving that pakistani muslims girls, hijabi girls, date and are ready to cross all boundaries. And the self contradiction found in her own posts.
Shawn not a good job.

107

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

if someone says it's not shareef to be dating, is that not judgmental??
what is your proof that people don't date?? would love to know.

[quote]
entire post(from begairati thread) was interesting, but the bolded part stood out the most. So you finally got exact stats for something.

I am not denying the evils existing in our society . But wait wasn't this thread about Desi Muslim Dating in West.
So how is it some people got hell bent on proving the dating scene and the rest in Pakistan. Why bella is so enthusiastic on proving that pakistani muslims girls, hijabi girls, date and are ready to cross all boundaries. And the self contradiction found in her own posts.
Shawn not a good job.
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i love how you are posting things from other thread to this one here. lol. why cant you argue on the other thread where i actually said it? this one has already derailed completely.
i have nothing against hijabis but i have seen plenty of them dating and having premarital relations, so? i am sure there are also many hijabis and non hijabi muslims who would never do anything like that.

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

Wait, wasn't bella88 the fornicator who used to bang the catholic? What happened to her.....?
Oh yeah, she married the loser and then started dissing people on the net for their loose morals.

109

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West


Playing games around. The first question u have asked is in no way related to my post. creating distractions right? Secondly, uhave proved pretty instrumental in derailing this thread along with others already. so dont try to talk in circles. I have seen enough of ur backtraking in this thread. and when did i specifically mention hijabis in prev post. And make up ur mind first, once u say u knw single hijabi with affairs then all of a sudden it gets updatd to plenty .I wnt waste my time writing more. That calling of pinks judgemental was quite hilarious. And yes no single women in her right state of mind in pakistan would approach a gyn for pills and abortions telling doc her single status, keeping in mind the laws and risks, unless the gynae has a back-alley business and such reputation. or maybe ur karachi is located in america too. And i think my last post was quite enough.

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

wow, how mature of you to come down to personal attacks just because you dont agree with something. im not dissing anyone for loose morals, as im not the one to decide whats moral and whats not. seems like you are the one whos dissing here.

111

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

this just proves that you have absolutely no idea what happens in pakistan. plenty of single women approach doctors for this purpose, how many ob/gyn do you personally who have been practicing for a long time? and lawlessness is very common. plenty of doctors perform abortions even though it's illegal. many women go to untrained 'dais' aswell because doctors who are willing to do it charge alot of money. almost every illegal thing in pakistan happens openly but you will probably deny that too.

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

How do you yourself claim to be unbiased? How can you be objective about Pakistanis? One could argue that since you are a pakistani living in west, you would subconciously try to justify your stay in the west by villifying paksitanis or exaggerating the negatives (i am not saying you do that, but just for arguments' sake)....

It would be a more balanced view, if you yourself also included in this 'objective' thingy..

113

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

Lolz. Yes they approach the doctors who are known for performing illegal procedures. You are right.specially if someone claims patients are coming from middle and lower classes and, specially if approached by 100s of young girls for related reasons.hundreds wow. lols When did i deny you.

114

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

oh u werent discusing morals. whatelse have you done in these two threads

115

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

Good Topic! and lots of discussion about East and West, but if we examine the origin of dating, it all started with Baba Adam and Amma Hawa, they say, they dated without their parents consent :), plus they had totally No inhibitions about how to dress for a date, since the the sowing machine was not invented yet :) and there was no mystery of what the opposite sex looked like..............they were both Alif Nangay :)

arranged marraige is the way to go, that is what Baba Adam and Amma Hawa had................and they never divorced! :)

116

Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

One gynecologist has a patient panel list of how many patients? And of those, how many area cases where it's known to the gynecologist the woman is having premarital sex? Abortions are requested even in cases of marriage too, so that would need to be dissected out of the percents you folks are idling your time online to calculate only to not ever affect any change in all this at the end of the day anyway.

And then how many people live in Karachi? Do you guys know it's now the 3rd largest city in the world?

And we're talking about maybe 20 odd patients a gynecologist has seen? Ok let's be generous, let's say out of a patient panel of 400 people she routinely takes care of, like 50 are having these issues.

That's 50 people in the world's 3rd largest city?

Is that 30%?

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

One other point. Please remember Islam is not some ideal state of mind we all achieve by the age of 15.

It is NOT surprising to me that some people in Pakistan or Pakistanis abroad are horsing around, and that too secretly. People want to have sex. There is a strong instinct of sex in all of us, some of us have it worse than others.

If we did not have that instinct, we wouldn't have this current world's crazy arse population in the first place. The "slaves" of Allah, that you wish to be so hard, well, were conceived by sex at the end of the day. Even Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was conceived by the act.

Maybe we can leave ISA (SAW) (Jesus) out of this picture, but that's like one human being in all the history of mankind.

So sex is a material and real part of life, and you can't dissect it out so easily by a simple head covering or a beard even. And you can't dissect it out by early marriage and you can't dissect it out by getting angry at each other for having experimented with aspects of it, or by giving dealth and hell lectures in the masjid over this.

Sex is a natural part of life. The important thing is that it be conducted in a responsible way where no one is getting hurt, and no one is getting psychologically damaged, and the only way to do that is by the institution of marriage. There is a highly LOGICAL reason God wants you to be married before you try any funny business.

And do people slip up? Yes, they will slip up. Of course they will slip up in Pakistan especially for crying out loud people there are doing all sorts of unIslamic crime - i.e. stealing, raping, abusing each other, screwing each other over at work, scamming the public, con artists, murders, etc.

So how the heck in that kind of environment do you think zina is NOT happening?

It probably is, it's just not as widely discussed on Mubashar Luqman's Khari Sach as corporate crime gets discussed because it's a taboo topic.

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

And furthermore, let's not throw stones around here. Not one of you is perfect. We have all done things or said things we are sorry for later. Some of us go around bullying others and hurting others, even on GS alone. So do any of us really have any real reason to look down on someone because they shared a kiss with someone or held a hand before marriage? I don't, personally. Who am I to judge?

Just try hard to be the best person you can be, and when it comes to your marriage or the marriage of your kids, try to educate them and yourself on why Allah wants us to be married first before hanky panky, and that will remind us sometimes even when we are in the heat of the moment that....we gotta back off and behave respectfully with the opposite sex.

Because that's the main issue here. It's not hai Allah someone did something before marriage. It's that by doing anything before marriage, you are actually hurting that person. Sometimes things don't pan out, and you might not marry that person, and now you've violated someone you cared about and put them in deeper sin and they have to deal with that guilt of an act that they regret for the rest of their life. How have you been fair to them? You haven't really, you wronged that person.

Can you get forgiveness and move on? I hope so, I mean, Allah forgives even people who have sinned by murdering people, right?

There is always redemption.

And that's what we should focus on. Respectful gender relations. This should not preclude us from actually talking to people of the opposite sex that we are considering for marriage, because if a responsible Islamic marriage is one based on compatibility rather than lust, money, etc, then sorry, you need to talk to that person, doesn't matter what level of hijab you take on with the opposite sex. There needs to be discussions. Do it in a way that makes everyone comfortable and you don't violate anyone in the process.

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

Excellent posts PCG.

That pretty much is the crux of the thread. It's a fact that going forward most marriages will happen through this process.

Question is what should be the limits of such interactions so as to ensure that we don't go down the western route. Western concept of dating also started as a way of knowing the person beforehand and look where we ended up.

Most people in favour of interacting with a potential rishta think they are religiously justified. However, if you end up doing things that are clearly prohibited by religion, that argument is no longer valid.

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Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West

Yeah, but we shouldn't stop young people from actually talking to each other and getting an understanding of whether or not they're compatible just because some people make bad decisions.

That's like saying we should stop the hajj completely because there are stampedes and people get killed. Control the safety factor, and ensure protection and all is well, anyone can go to hajj safely. But we don't stop men and women from doing the hajj shoulder to shoulder do we, just because random men are bumping into your women because of the traffic?

Common sense often doesn't prevail with desis.

I have met guys for the purpose of figuring out if there is any compatibility, and I've been driven to do that personally due to some factors. 1. my busy work timings 2. poor social networking historically on the part of my parents and 3. religious institutions like masjids making it really hard to find if there are any nice single young men in the community where I even go pray regularly and 4. ISNA and such organizations having infrequent events that are just difficult to fly to or put on my schedule.

So I took to online shaadi sites and its been MISERABLE. But yeah, a guy off the internet, I HAVE to meet the person. You can't just have two random families talking to each other from different parts of the country - you just don't know who you're talking to.

So I detest the idea that someone would question me and my history on any of these dates.

And on top of it, there is a provision for secrecy in Islam, btw, for those of you who tout Islam so much. If for example, I sinned with anyone, that is for me to know and for Allah to know, and I'm not obligated to tell anyone about it. Yeah, really.

So it would be better, I think, to use one's time in being a better person and looking at other problems in society, not whose organs are in whose pants. Or skirts. Or burqas. Whatever.