[QUOTE] Originally posted by Seminole: *
**Anything* that has been "preserved and transmitted orally for the most part" cannot be 100% accurate or reliable.
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In your opinion... although by "most part" i actually meant "for most people"... in other words, most people probably didn't have a personal written Qur'an and so oral transmission dominated.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
His directives were to not record his non-Quranic words as they would be confused with God's book and God's words.
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How did this directive survive and reach us?
And you didn't address my second question... "Can you give an example of how the Prophet (saw) implemented a Qur'an-based directive or teaching?"
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*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
In your opinion...
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No, that's not an opinion. Unless people were given special powers by God it is impossible.
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How did this directive survive and reach us?
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It was preserved and transmitted orally.
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And you didn't address my second question... "Can you give an example of how the Prophet (saw) implemented a Qur'an-based directive or teaching?"
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The practical application to the directives in the Quran that asks man to follow the example of Muhammed would seem to indicate God wants man to follow his example in accpeting the Quran as God's word and live life accordingly word as Muhammed did.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
No, that's not an opinion. Unless people were given special powers by God it is impossible.
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My 5 yr old son has memorised certain chapters of the Qur'an simply by listening to his parents' verbal recitation - he can't read Arabic at all. His recitation's faultless and i'd dare say that he'll never forget those verses for as long as he lives - God willing. What's unreliable about this? And i don't need to have a Qur'an before me to check the accuracy of his recital. John Burton: "The method of transmitting the Qur'an from one generation to the next by having the young memorize the oral recitation of their elders had mitigated somewhat from the beginning the worst perils of relying solely on written records…" (An Introduction to the Hadith, p.27)
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It was preserved and transmitted orally.
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So you accept that oral transmission suffices to "preserve" something...
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The practical application to the directives in the Quran that asks man to follow the example of Muhammed would seem to indicate God wants man to follow his example in accpeting the Quran as God's word and live life accordingly word as Muhammed did.
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This is an answer to my first question which was: "When the Qur'an asks us to "obey", "follow" and take the Messenger (saw) as an "example" what, in your view, is the practical application of such directives?
It doesn't address the subsequent follow-up question: "Can you give an example* of how the Prophet (saw) implemented a Qur'an-based directive or teaching?"*
My 5 yr old son has memorised certain chapters of the Qur'an simply by listening to his parents' verbal recitation - he can't read Arabic at all. His recitation's faultless and i'd dare say that he'll never forget those verses for as long as he lives - God willing. What's unreliable about this?
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What's unreliable about transferring God's word from generation to generation based on memory of what someone else said was the original version? I have a better question - what is reliable about it? There is a lot more peril relying on an imperfect human's memory than a written record. Try to go to court based on your memory vs. somone who has a written record and let me know who the judged ruled for based on proof.
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So you accept that oral transmission suffices to "preserve" something...
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Sure, folklore, stories, fairytales, myths, legends, etc. But not hundreds of thousands of words, and not in order with 100% accuracy. Impossible.
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Can you give an example of how the Prophet (saw) implemented a Qur'an-based directive or teaching?"
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I thought he obeyed the word of God? Is that not enough?
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Try to go to court based on your memory vs. somone who has a written record and let me know who the judged ruled for based on proof.
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Like you i'll answer with a question (or two)... how are you going to prove that the written account was recorded accurately? How about three independent memorised accounts in agreement with each other differing with a solitary written account?
Like you i'll answer with a question (or two)... how are you going to prove that the written account was recorded accurately? How about three independent memorised accounts in agreement with each other differing with a solitary written account?
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If one side had the written account from 200 years ago, and the other side had a memorized version that had been handed down through generations during the 200 year period, than the written account wins. While the original written record may not be proof of accuracy, the memorized versions most certainly can not. The 3 independent accounts can easily be from the same wrong version. And we are not talking about memorizing a few passages but hundreds of thousands of words.