Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
I dont think Jinnah ever talked about Pakistan being a theocracy.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
wohi to problem hai… even if people are willing to elect a worthy non-muslim as prez or pm, it cannot happen coz the constitution sez tat only a muslim can become head of the state.. wahin pe taala laga diya phir in sab baaton mein kya fayda hai?
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
Jinnah didn’t even know what the term theocracy meant. What happened 60 years ago, it happened. Its time now to move on and live in the 21st century. In early Islam, slavery was also allowed, try doing that today. Try walking on Mall Road holding hands with your 4 wives. Times change, and changing times require new thinking. Jinnah is long dead. He didn’t even know what will happen to East Pakistan let alone him worrying about it being called an “Islamic Republic”.
Only yesterday 11 Shias were killed (some of them burnt alive). If that’s what Islamic Republic is to represent, shove it up your ass.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
I want the Islami guys to answer this simple question:
I am a Pakistani Punjabi – indigenous Punjabi going back thousands of years – not even an ounce of imported blood in me. I happen to be an Ahmadi. Now there’s this girl whose grandparents migrated from Bihar and she was born in Pakistan and is Sunni. She is dumb as a twig, but she can become Prime Minister of Pakistan, while I can’t even become a friggin City Council member, because I am not considered Pakistani enough. Is that what Islamic republic supposed to imply??
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
^
Mussalmaan ho ja yaar, aakhirat sanwar jaaey gi.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
I think I should have asked people to read "Rights of Man" by Thomas Paine before replying to this thread.
Madhanee Wrote What happened 60 years ago, it happened. Its time now to move on and live in the 21st century
This is exactly the concept that Thomas Paine was trying to derive. Laws change as generations change. Its a sign of progress. If we were to stick with old views we'd still bbe cultivating fields with Bail and that wooden thing instead of tractors. More to follow
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
[quote]
In a republic "supreme power lies in a body of citizens" vs an Islamic state "political and socio-economic order is based upon the Koran and Sharia".
So for Pakistan to call itself a republic and call itself an Islamic State (moderate or not) is sort of deceiving.
[/quote]
i fail to follow the contradiction. The selection and powers of the government can be bounded by Islamic principles. Within those principles, the mode of selection and operation is that of a democratic republic.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
Ravage:
By definintion "republic" is shirk(i think thats the word), since the supreme power lies in the body of citizens not Allah. So to state "Islamic republic" in one sentence is in by itself deceiving and negates itself. That is why it should be either Islamic State or Democratic republic.
I know that few here have said that these are just words but in legal terms it is the words that matter not personal intuitions. Constitution is a legal document, so the wordings should be carefully selected.
On the same token I have no problems either if the name is changed to Islamic State of Pakistan. My only gripe is with using Islamic and Republic in one sentence.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
if we take your second definition or this one
A form of government in which the head of state is usually elected by the citizens. (Not to be confused with "democracy" because many republics, past and present, have heads of state who came into power by military force, or were elected by a small minority of the population.)
then there is no contradiction. there is no contradiction between the head of state being elected by citizens and the dominant brand of Islam in Pakistan. the mode of his election and the powers he may have might be restricted by Islamic principles.
Prefixes to terms, for example Islamic Republic, are meant to connote the fact that the term is not in its pure state, rather has features of the prefix. Thereby, Islamic Republic connotes that its a republic, where the leader is elected by citizens, guided by Islamic principles.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
where the leader is elected by citizens, guided by Islamic principles
This might be deviating from the thread but to re-iterate what Madhanee said:
Constitution states that Only a Muslim can stand for office(PM,PRes etc). Anyone Xtian, satan worshipper etc can lead a country by following Islamic principles. To me thats like following how-to instructions and anyone educated enough can read the instructions and run the country. But in Pakistans Constitution which is derived on the principles of Islamic Republic it states that only muslims will rule. Are the non-mulsims that un-intelligent that they can't follow how-to instructions?
All I was trying to derive at was that "Islamic republic" negates itself. Pakistanis should either change it to Islamic state or Demo Republic.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
you just havent been able to derive that verizon. having limitations either in the people that can be elected or the manner in which they can govern does not negate the fact that the actual election mechanism is by civilians. you repeatedly go back to showing examples from a pure republic system, but my whole point is that an Islamic republic is not a pure republic it is a specific type of republic with restrictions.
re: non muslims governing. obviously right or wrong, whoever framed that law did so in the light of his understanding of Islamic principles. you may disagree with that and may be right, but any debate on this should be based in Islamic rulings.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
but my whole point is that an Islamic republic is not a pure republic it is a specific type of republic with restrictions
Ok so if it walks like a duck, but doesn't talk like a duck, so what is it then, a quack? Might as well classify it as an Islamic state and get it over with.
re: non muslims governing. obviously right or wrong, whoever framed that law did so in the light of his understanding of Islamic principles. you may disagree with that and may be right, but any debate on this should be based in Islamic rulings
Yes based on Islamic rulings which are/is, a Muslim caliph, so that about addresses the non muslim issue right then and there. I re-iterate change the name to Islamic state.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
I strongly disagree. Pakistan is the ONLY nation in world created vased on Islam. If we abandon that then what is the purpose of our existance? There are plenty of Muslims in India who CHOSE to stay in India because they agreed with the secularist principles or were not able to move. E. Pakistan was created in the name of Bengali NATIONALISM. What defines us is the Islamic roots of South Asia.
We are the truncated progeny of Muslim rule of the Subcontinent. I refuse to use the word Indian Subcontinent, as it explicitly recognizes the Indian hegemon.
There are countless Arab nations, largely muslim divided by colonialist creations, Afghanistan nation created by a dead king, and the Turkey, the secularist paradise. So, Pakistan stands alone in the Islamic regard. To go back on the foundations is like Israel losing it’s Jewishness.
If folks diagree with the creation or the ideology of Pakistan, they have the option of associating with India- where they may find themselves more comfortable. Please note that being an Islamic state does not mean fundamentalism, exclusion of minorities etc.
Even the US is still a largely Christian Protastant nation despite the inclusiveness of minorities.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
please dont resort to childish arguments. you understand my point perfectly by now, unless you are remarkably obtuse. nuances in modes of governance are not limited to “Islamic Republic”, you have socialist republics (Sri Lanka), you have democratic kingdoms (Great Britain).
learn to deal with complexity.
you may keep on reiterating for eternity, but you are starting to make absolutely no headway as far as offering rational justifications is concerned. if in the light of Islamic law, the election of non muslims is prohibited, then consider it along the lines of american election system prohibiting naturalizised citizens from becoming president.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
Mr. Verizon, before starting this thread, were you drunk?
You sure , you didn't mean "Republic of India".
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
Ravage Chacha… the issue about naturalized citizens not being able to become president of the US is open to discussion, it can be debated, and laws can be changed. How do change the law of a non-Muslim Pakistani becoming Khalifa of Pakistan?
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
If I were drunk I would have type something to the effect of
Banana Republik of Bananistan.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
so long as we are the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, and unless you mount a coup (in which case anything goes), I suppose you would have to argue your case in the light of Islamic laws. Once again, the issue is open to debate amongst civlians and parliamentarians, however, constrained in the light of Islamic laws.
Good luck.
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
I don't what Islamic Republic you're all talking about. It's a Islamic Dictatorship init?
ps. i don't particularly care taht it is, just want people to be correct. It ain't a re"public". May be re"military".
Re: Democratic Republic of Pakistan
Changing the Name will not solve any problem at all?? why do you think a change in name will also have impact on people? there will only one change, a useless anti name change compaign by Mullahs, they are good for nothing.