democracy

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *

Its spreading more like a disease...Like a plague...First it spread to Islamic lands then it took hold of Afghanistan costing thousands of Muslim lives then it spread to Iraq costing millions of Muslim lives...It's not democracy, it's demonocracy...It's a disease and a plague which rides upon the beast of greed, vice and avarice...
[/QUOTE]

Maybe you are right, that Afhganistan and Iraq didnt need the dose of Bush style democracy, but then why couldnt the Muslim world have gotten rid of Saddam, no protector of Islam personally and got the Taliban to behave?

If you want the rest of teh world to stay out of the Muslim world, then the Muslim world should also take care of the rascals in the gang...

42

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
A question for Minime Bhaijan.

Can you please answer this in the best way possible, in simple and straight terms:

How would an Islamic system be different from any other system (say capitalism) in terms of providing the following:

a. Healthcare
b. Education
c. Individual liberties (freedom of expression etc., e.g, if I want to dance naked in town square, would it be possible, if not, why not.)
d. Equal rights for all (regardless of gender, ethnicity, or sexual orientation), i.e., can a lesbian female member of a minority community become a head of state (Khalifa) under your Islamic system?
e. Would your Islamic system deal with countries who do not have such a system on their terms, or on your terms? E.g., loans from international lenders.

Thank you. I look forward to your explanations. Namaste.
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a) The Ottoman, Safavid and Fatimid dynasties were based on Islamic principles and provided free healthcare and ophthalmological services to all its subjects.

b) The first universities and the first ever dormitory system was established in Baghdad and later in Cairo. Students and scholars from around the Muslim empire came to learn and be taught all at the expense of the Islamic empire at that time.

c) Abu Nawas was a self-declared gay drunk poet who used to live at the time of the Ottomans and openly published his works. 400 years later the Europeans were conducting the Inquisition and burning people at the stake for being witches.

As for your dancing naked, I would have you placed in a sanitorium. (Which at that time was also created to study and aid mentally challenged people like yourself.) :D

d) There were equal rights and more in the time of the Muslims caliphates. In fact Muslims were so revered at the time of the Turkish caliphate that according to the tradition of Devshirme, Christian peasants would try their best to have their children selected to be made into Muslim soldiers called Jannisaries...(Or Jan-Nisari in Urdu).

e) What loans? The Islamic empire is big enough that should a caliphate arise at this moment, there would never be a need to take loans from any non-Muslim country.

You can check the facts from the net or you can take a course in islamic history. But your intolerance and hatred for everything Islamic would hinder you from ever looking at the other picture. So you shouldn;t study Islamic history and just concentrate on what lies before your eyes. Your mind will not comprehend the grandeur that was the Islamic civilization.

43

{Madhanee and Lajawab: Keep it clean guys. No personal insults either.}

44

[QUOTE]
The first universities and the first ever dormitory system was established in Baghdad and later in Cairo.
[/QUOTE]

are you trying to say, there were no universities in the world before islamist establised them ...with borrowed knowledged!!

45

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

are you trying to say, there were no universities in the world before islamist establised them ...with borrowed knowledged!!
[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. And borrowed from whom?

It's funny the way ill-informed people possess the view that Muslims had borrowed knowledge from others, while scholars of history will easily refute that claim...So go on believing whatever you want soul...Doesn't change the facts now, does it?

46

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

are you trying to say, there were no universities in the world before islamist establised them ...with borrowed knowledged!!
[/QUOTE]

Sir/Madam
Please watch Empire of Faith-Islam. Its a documentary on Muslims.
And it talks about THE GREAT CONTRIBUTION TO SCIENCES AND OTHER FIELDS BY MUSLIMS.
Just an example, numeric system was introduced by MUSLIMS.
Hospitals and modern medicine was introduced by Muslims.
The first constitution was introduced by Muslims.

Take care

47

Please get your facts right, world’s first university was established in 7th century B.C in Taxila, Gandhara.

Taxila university , which is the oldest in the world, has been in existence even before the time of the Buddha and before the occupation of the Taxila valley by the Achaemanian rulers in 6th- 5th century B.C. Probably in the period of the ypanishands (7th century B.C.) philosophers gathered here to have their own schools of thought and imparted instructions. By the time of the Buddha it rose to be a strong educational Centre, where instructions were given in military science, medicine, political science, philosophy, religion, language and literature, and grammar.

link

48

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *

:) obviously no facts or figures just views from rose tinted spectacles. Spread like wildfire oh yeah is that what you call it.

Are you trying to tell me 2 billion muslims worldwide want man made laws instead of islamic state.
[/QUOTE]
Here is as fact for you -- there are no where near 2 billion muslims worldwide. By you continually using that figure does not make it correct. The fact that democracies flourished in the 20th century is undeniable (even for those whose bias overwhlems them). There were less than 20 democracies around the time of WWII. Today there are over 120 world wide. As far as Muslim countries are concerned, I don't pretend to guess they want to have man mad laws instead of islamic state. My guess is they don't since so few have joined the proliferation of democratic change over the last century.

[quote]

Lecturing the muslim world about corrupt ideas like democracy and capitalism is not gonna work because people have seen it done it and got the T Shirt they are not stupid and you can't fool them with rethoric like freedom of this and freedom of that and we will give you such great economy if you let us into your markets first, they can see lies coming a mile off. Democracy was even abandoned by the inventors of democracy "the greeks" who said it caused chaos and confusion.
[/QUOTE]
Lecturing the free world about the corrupt ideas like a religion state is not gonna work because that archaic idea died off way before the T shirt was even invented. You can't fool freedom loving people with rhetoric like our religion is the best and deserves to dominate the world as a governing body. Europeans fled their homelands hundreds of years ago to escape such nonsense. There is NOTHING you have to offer to make them want to go back to the days of oppressive religous governments.

49

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Here is as fact for you -- there are no where near 2 billion muslims worldwide. By you continually using that figure does not make it correct. The fact that democracies flourished in the 20th century is undeniable (even for those whose bias overwhlems them). There were less than 20 democracies around the time of WWII. Today there are over 120 world wide. As far as Muslim countries are concerned, I don't pretend to guess they want to have man mad laws instead of islamic state. My guess is they don't since so few have joined the proliferation of democratic change over the last century.
Lecturing the free world about the corrupt ideas like a religion state is not gonna work because that archaic idea died off way before the T shirt was even invented. You can't fool freedom loving people with rhetoric like our religion is the best and deserves to dominate the world as a governing body. Europeans fled their homelands hundreds of years ago to escape such nonsense. There is NOTHING you have to offer to make them want to go back to the days of oppressive religous governments.
[/QUOTE]

I got 2 lines to your ridiculous statements

Democracy got Hitler into power so much for democracy :)

And Europeans fled the fudal kings and the church!

50

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *

No i don't because then you have 2 sets of laws and they will conflict.

you cannot have 2 systems, in a simple analogy it is like rowing a boat in 2 different directions the boat will just not go nowhere just round and round in a circle!
[/QUOTE]

I disagree with your analogy.

Perhaps the boat find a whirlpool and meld?

My question to you is....

How can different people of many different beliefs exists under the same roof together unless they have some agreed upon rules of behavior?