You can consider this the episode 2 thread about democracy…
For many , democracy in pakistan is not working and is useless. So what is next .
Dictator ship ( for me NO )
Presidential system ( will also depend on existing voting system )
Continuation of democracy ; ( For me it is yes )
So how this can be improved. IF the electronic voting system is adopted. there is chnace of improvemnt or we are going to have same results ??
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
We have to let it function...whatever thing we have is alot better than military dictatorship...
With 2 or possibly 3 more elections, the nationalism in voters will evolve to a level where ethinic card, false or hollow slogan will mot work and army would know that 2 trucks is not what it takes to remove the govt...
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Actually, it’s fashion for the losing parties in Pakistan to blame everything on rigging (PPP included too). We hear about all sorts of accusation and then things settle down, and ultimately if someone asks for proof it is either ignored or the accuser has to eat his words and offer apologies if taken to court. This just proves we are trigger friendly at making wild accusations with no substance to back it up. I have not seen much media coverage of this but this bawa jee was making alot of accusations during the dharna and when asked to prove it in court, he had to apologize.
Another dharna plot character tenders apology | Top Story | thenews.com.pk
Ex-ECP official Afzal Khan had levelled rigging charges against respectable personalities a
ISLAMABAD: Afzal Khan, a retired ECP official and a mysterious character of the 2014 D-Chowk dharna conspiracy,** has made a written and unconditional apology in a court of law for all the allegations he levelled about rigging during the 2013 general elections.** The Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) member Justice (retd) Riaz Kiani, who had moved a case against him for levelling all these allegations, has also generously forgiven him for his mistakes.
During the 2014 D-Chowk sit-ins meant to topple a democratic dispensation and to install a puppet government headed by some technocrats, the PTI chief Imran Khan was levelling many allegations of rigging against different institutions, organisations, a media house and many individuals. He started from Geo News and accused Pakistan’s biggest news channel of rigging the 2013 general elections. As proof, he said that Geo had announced the PML-N’s victory at 11:23pm on election-day while the counting was underway in many constituencies at that time. He later came to know that the results of a National Assembly constituency became almost finalised even before 10:00pm in the night. He had similar evidence for all his allegations. **When the media started pressing Imran Khan to present some concrete proof of at least any of his allegations, suddenly an anchor, known for his links with the directors of the conspiracy, aired the interview of Afzal Khan, who levelled serious allegations of wrongdoings and involvement in alleged rigging against former chief justices Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, Tassaddiq Hussain Jillani, Nadra and members of the ECP, especially Justice Riaz Kiani.
**
Afzal Khan used to sit besides the PTI chief and Imran Khan used to proudly present Afzal Khan ‘disclosures’ as evidence of his rigging charges. Basically, during the whole campaign in the name of rigging, the PTI chief could present two things as ‘evidence’; one was Afzal Khan’s statements and the other was thousands of affidavits presented by Aleem Khan before the Election Tribunal and then before the Supreme Court of Pakistan on vote transfer from the NA-122.The ECP has already declared all the affidavits as fake and Aleem Khan is almost ready to face criminal proceedings for presenting hundreds of fake affidavits. Imran Khan has yet to apologise for making false and baseless allegations against different persons and organisations. During this campaign, journalists were attacked, shot at, offices of media houses and homes of journalists were attacked by agents of those directing the show. Later, a high powered Judicial Commission, headed by the chief justice of Pakistan, also declared all the rigging allegations as baseless. However, the campaign is still under way.
**Afzal Khan, an ECP officer, was denied a promotion some time before his retirement by ECP member Justice Riaz Kiani. After his retirement, Afzal tried to start moving against the ECP bosses for not giving him promotion but he failed. However, after some time during the days of D-Chowk sit-in conspiracy, Afzal Khan was presented in a sponsored talk show by those who were directing the whole show, and he levelled many baseless allegations against many respected personalities without presenting any evidence or proof. He didn’t even spare former Chief Justice Tassaddiq Hussain Jillani, who not only enjoyed a very good reputation but was also an honest and professional judge. He was known for his politeness and humbleness. He was attacked only because he refused to bow down before the illegal and unconstitutional desires and wishes of some forces.
**
Like all other players in that blame game which was launched against many respected Pakistanis in 2014 starting from honourable Justice (retd) Fakharuddin G Ebrahim, to the likes of top journalist Hamid Mir, now Afzal Khan has also sought an unconditional written apology when he was asked to prove the allegations he levelled in 2014. Azfal Khan sought a written apology on June 7 in the court of Nazir Ahmad Gajana, District and Sessions Judge, Lahore. After his apology and acceptance of apology by Justice Riaz Kiani, the court disposed off the case under Section 500 PPC.
In his allegations, Afzal Khan has said that the ROs were appointed by the then Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry. However, the documented facts proved that all the ROs across the Pakistan were appointed following a demand of PTI chief Imran Khan. Earlier, different government officers used to be appointed as ROs but the PTI chief has demanded that only judicial officials be appointed as ROs. It was not possible as under the National Judicial Policy, the judicial officers were barred from accepting any non-judicial assignment. Because of this bar and a strict demand of a main opposition leader Imran Khan, the then Chief Election Commissioner Justice (retd) Fakharuddin G Ebrahim moved a petition in the Supreme Court to seek permission for appointment of district and sessions judges as ROs of respective constituencies. The petition was allowed. The district and sessions judges are appointed by high courts and not by the Supreme Court and high courts are not subordinate courts of Supreme Court. The Lahore sessions court, while disposing of the case, did not consider it important to punish Afzal Khan for his white lies against the most respected Pakistanis as explained above. All other allegations levelled by Afzal Khan were a laughing stock as was in the case of every such presentation. All other characters behind this conspiracy were either punished by their respective departments or have sought unconditional apologies to save their skins.
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Imran Khan lied about 35 punctures, Afzal Khan lied about everything he said about rigging...
Some 130 people git killed and scores were injured, huge losses to our country... ( because IK can go back and join his family in UK whenever he wants)...
No action against liars???? What if marshal law was implemented...civil war could have been started had PMLN decided to reply in same tone...all because IK's lust for power and lies...
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Another question I mind. Wat is the most important step in your opinion to avoid electoral rigging that our election commission take
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Another question I mind. Wat is the most important step in your opinion to avoid electoral rigging that our election commission take
Three important things EC needs to do:
1) use better quality papers for voting, currently they use crappy newspaper quality, which is good for that moment only and later very difficult to identify thumb impression.
2) need to have better storing facility...right now they just throw the bags in the backyard and let it deal with weather itself.
3) have trained staff, relying on others never gets the desired results
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
^^ Wat about electronic voting. I believe it cud be a solution atleast for rigging issue. Unless this too being MANAGED
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
^^ Wat about electronic voting. I believe it cud be a solution atleast for rigging issue. Unless this too being MANAGED
Electronic voting is viable option but then allegation of hacking are there and i am not sure it is successfully implemented...specially in country like Pakistan where IT Network is not covering 100% of Pakistan...
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
My opinion is that the Cry about Rigging is a lot more than what was needed. Losers are mostly crying, the system worked just fine. Many things that needs to be improved but fact is that People voted and they Choose and disrespecting their choices by short sighted politicians and Lunatics in case of Imran at behest of Blood Sucking Generals is the core issue. There is no solution but Stability and let it run. 2018 elections will be even better, process is moving on unless some Losers in GHQ decide otherwise but things have changed so much that its either democracy or game over for Pakistan.
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
An innocent question:
Why do some people consider Martial Law (or Marshall Law as some say) so bad?
When off-springs of worst Martial Law are champions of true democracy like Nawaz Sharif then should not it be enforced again and create more democratic leaders like Nawaz Sharif for brighter future of Pakistan?
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Innocent Answer. So precisely there are no more Nawaz Sharifs, MQMs, JI, Taliban, Bhuttos, Qureshi's etc. The leaders are not made and every experiment the gang of GHQ has tried failed. For Nawaz credit, he is off spring of Martial Law and he is the only one who has Challenged Gang in his every term. For better or worse, he has become a public leader with huge following and there is no way some should take that way just becuase they have guns or tanks or in their limited wisdom they are better Pakistani than others. Elections and Democracy is the only way, Martial Law is Cancer and every curse in Pakistan is because of martial law.
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
But if Zia's Martial Law can breed Sharifs (who are thoroughbred democrats) then why not another Martial Law create Sharif # 2?
Pakistan has dearth of leaders and chances of Army breeding another Sharif are 50% - Zia ul Haq produced Sharif - Musharraf produced Shaukat Aziz.
Based on high probability of 50% - Martial Law and Brutal Dictator is need of Pakistan as reports about N$ health will soon come out in public! In such a situation breeding of another Sharif is must by CMLA to save Pakistan from establishment ;)
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Nawaz was not only cross bred by Gen Zia and Gen Jillani but his Graduation Ceremony was conducted by Gen Aslam Baig - Opeartion Midnight Jackal against Benazir Bhutto - Anyone?!?
Lol - this is super hilarious!!
Army had foiled conspiracies against PPP regimes twice | Pakistan | thenews.com.pk
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
When one martial breaks coutnry and sends 93000 Shameless cowards in most humiliating fashion post world war 2 to jails, another martial brings cancer of Taliban / Mujahideen, narcotics, gun culture, yet another martial law sells people for so called, give birth to fanatiscm that killed 50,000 people. Real question is why do we need a Marital Law and better question is that What makes ARmy or Generals competent enough to breed leaders. Its not like they tried for 67 years and FAILED every time, Hell they lost every War the main business they are paid to do, fill our History books with Bakwas Of Chawinda but have no Shame to tell us What happened in Usal Uttar / Patton Nagar, I mean our Army has the most Humiliating defeats, no major victory, Osama was wathing Porn 5 minutes from PMA, Pakistan's finest were termed as either incompetent or complacent. All of this is true right so back to real question WHY another Martial Law. Have we not suffered enough ?
God has funny way to bring those down who think of themselves as better than others, they bred people like Nawaz to control bloody civilians and its Nawaz that has stood up to their tyranny. So its time to end this Bakwas, every Martial law attempt should end up hanging of officers involved, corruption of DHA/Fauji foundation (Military Inc. Great book) needs to be exposed and military should be told to Stop humiliating Pakistan.
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Few more examples. Forcefully took Foreign Policy now, Pushed Foreign policy on Civilian Govts and see where is Pakistan today. Raheel visited US 6 times or so Uninvited, took some pictures with Reps / Senators, no body gave rats a$$ to him and F-16 deal down the drain, A check post given to Afg and got a major killed yet another humiliation, Salala incident happened a lot of bakwas from Generals and Did any one gave crap. Point is that no one in Western world Respects Pak Army for for that matter back stabbers / game players. Our Army has played games with people, politicians, friendly countries and that has brought us down to the Level of a Dealer with West and not Ally or Friend. And than Our finest want Politicians to take blame. So again question is 67 years of Influence on Foreign policy and what is the result ? Compare that to any other country where Generals are Servents reporting to Civilians, see how things work. Democracy is a process, our finest never let it run and than there are Boot polishers like some posting here who dont understand the long term cost of Political immaturity. Regardless, times of Martial Law have gone, I dare army to try taking over and see how World reacts.
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Retardedness pesonfified!
LOL - LOL
Is patwatrollism a word - anyone?!?
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
An innocent question:
Why do some people consider Martial Law (or Marshall Law as some say) so bad?
... off-springs of worst Martial Law are champions of true democracy like Nawaz Sharif.
You answered your own question. The intelligence and integrity of offspring depend on genes and training received from the parents.
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
This is hilarious!
Calling Sharif a “loose cannon,” a second Western diplomatic source said, “I’d have a hard time believing” his allegations about the military’s drug trafficking proposal. The official suggested that Sharif’s disclosure might be designed to keep Bhutto and Pakistan-India relations off balance.
Some people amazes everyone re the level they can stoop - just in hate of PPP - how low could he have gone- perhaps only another Sharif can beat him re his lowless-ness - or may be not - who knows!
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
You answered your own question. The intelligence and integrity of offspring depend on genes and training received from the parents.
But I along with many hundreds consider Sharif as saviour of democracy and last hope for my country.
Since he is lone saviour of Muslim Ummah now - should Martial Law not produce another "piece of art" that is one of its kind and that offspring will further enlighten the world and spread his wisdom?
Effectively it means Pakistan need another Martial Law so once N$ dies then there will be another Martial Law offspring to lead us and teach the globe about "what exactly is democracy and what does democratization means!
Re: Democracy = Electoral rigging and possible solution
Extreme version of Straw man fallacy on exhibit here. Well done!