[quote]
Originally posted by Serial Guppy:
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Replies with ( * ) are my answers... now have you ever read Abdul Wahabs books?
Do you think its okay according to Quran and SUnnah to do "taveez ganda?"
Do you think its okay for people to go to graves of "saints" and ask them for help and bow down to them?
Do you think, its OKAY to change Islam according to ones will?
There are MANY questions, but if you answer those with NO, then you might be called a "wahabi" too.
Do you think its OKAY to choose our own way and invent things in islam as new ways of worship than that ordained and done by Prophet(pbuh)?
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And the answer to your questions is very simple. I believe every Muslim people, depending on their culture and belief is unique and differnt. Their is no "one" correct way of intrepreting Islam. While we should follow the basic prinicples in the Quran, their are many ways of reaching to Allah. And this is not about inventing anything, but about being a good human being and thus a good Muslim. People have different ways of reaching Allah, and jannat, and no one has sole authority on what is the "right" way to practice Islam. As they say, Allah knwos best (and not Wahabis or anyone else).
A Wahabi cannot understand this concept at all. He is deviod of any mysticism or spirutuality. He is dead inside as a human being.
Taliban are a good example of people influenced by Wahabism who could not tolerate anyone practicing Islam other then their own way. Forget about tolerating non-Muslism here. Someone who find justification to kill Muslims of another sect are not worthy of my respect.
[This message has been edited by Faraz Mir (edited April 13, 2002).]
And its not just some madrasshas thet tech hatred and very little else. AT least HALF (if not more) teach hatred in Pakistan. I have seen thsi with my own eyes, so don't tell me I am influenced by zionist media or whateevr. I have heard what the Sipha-e-Sahab and other Wahabis groups teach. I have listened to their sermons. I have talked to these people.
They do not hide their beliefs. They openly admit that one way to get to heaven is to kill a kafir. And they are doing this as we speak in Pakistan by killing Shias, so-called "kafirs". You guys shoudl go to Pakistan and to madrassahs and talk to these Mullahs, and you too will realize that everythign they teach is against Islam. They have started their own little cult, which is so far removed from Islam that it is sad.
700 doctros have been killed in Pakistan over the last few years alone. 700 famalies like you and I have lost their brothers and sons. If this is nto evidence showing the deviosu nature of this cult, then I don't know what is. And don't tell me that it wasn't Wahabis who killed these people, becaue I have spoken to people from these groups and their beleifs are not so different then the beleifs of those on this board who defend Wahabis unfortunately.
You are all rubish my friend, all rubish. Again, you provide NO proof of “many ways to reach Allah” and “evils” of “wahabis.”
You seem to be more influenced by Zionist controlled media and what they say about “wahabism” and “taliban” than you are by Islam and Sunnah of the Prophet.
There is only ONE way to Jannah and ALLAH and that is THROUGH Prophet Mohammad(pbuh).
You don’t even have the basic knowledge of Islam and how one should practice it. Certainly not by inciting hate and fights among sects by coming here with LIES!
Why are you associating every ill in the socity with “wahabis,” when you don’t even have any authentic info on them? You haven’t read Abdul Wahabs books, you can’t even discuss or comprehend the basic elements of Islam and here you are declaring everyone else but your self a Kafir.
Taliban were wrong, they were certainly like you who had no knowledge of verses like these:
*“And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you”[al-Nisa’ 4:29]
6:159 As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.*
I think, you should start studying and start posting some FACTS rather than your hateful, disinformed comments which you learned by brainwashing your self at anti-islamic and anti-sunnah sites.
*if there were MANY ways to reach ALLAH and Janah, there wouldn’t be any need for prophets or holy books. He wouldn’t tell us to FOLLOW and OBEY the Prophet(pbuh), and who ever disobeys is going t hell… OPEN your mind up pal, hate will only burn up your heart and “wahabis” will still be there to stop you from bowing down to grave of some saint in punjab, and tell you not to put taveez on just so that a peer says it will give you a son…and whole alot of other nonsense that you people do on name of Islam and neiki but it has no basis in islam what so ever.
I have already posted facts of the DAILY evil DEEDS of people influenced by Wahabism/Salafism and other dangerous cults.
Taliban were influenced by Wahabis. Extremist Mullahs around the world are influenced by Wahabism. SSP are influenced by Wahabsim.
All these are teachings of Abdul Wahab that promote intolerance and hatred towards other Muslims and non-Muslims. It is a fact of life, you can deny it as much as you want. I would not give two hoots about Wahabis if they stayed to themselves in their Arab land, and did not spread their Jihad and ugly thinking throughout my people as well. If thye want to burn down shrines and tombs in Saudi Arabia, or want to kill Shias and non-Muslims in Arab lands, well that's their thing and doesn't bother me.
But when they bring their "jihad" and disgusting hatred over to Pakistan, it worries me. You all should go to a REAL Wahabi madrassah and see with your own eyes what they teach to the poor people there. I have visited many in and around Karachi and also spoken to these types of people in Azad Kashmir (where they're trying to take over all of Kashmir). After I saw what these despicable Wahabi Mullahs were teaching our children, I cried. It was shameful and scornful what theses &#%^& had done to Islam and our country.
These are the REAL daily contribution of Wahabis to Pakistan. You guys have probably not experienced this disease first hand, you have not had anyone close to you being brutally murdered by these Wahabis. You all still think that the reason for all this violence is not extremist teachings, but just a “few people who have gone against Islam”. No, it is not just a few people, it is a whole cult. Today they may only be murdering shias and kafirs, but soon they will come after all of us and no one will be safe from this disease.
And why do you keep asking about definition of Wahabis. I don’t have anything against Abdul Wahab, but the fact is that his teachings are responsible for the murder of thousands of Muslims and non-Muslims around the world. And this is a fact of life! The most dangerous terrorist groups in Pakistan are Wahabi. Do you think that is just a coincidence?
If its a “fact of life,” why don’t you give us the references stating that abdul Wahab’s teachings are full of hate and intolerance? Again, no credibility in your reply.
You know, you are preaching intolerance and hatred by not presenting the facts but only giving out disinformation which you hear on TV and other western media outlets about “wahabis.”
But when they bring their “jihad” and disgusting hatred over to Pakistan, it worries me. You all should go to a REAL Wahabi madrassah and see with your own eyes what they teach to the poor people there. I have visited many in and around Karachi and also spoken to these types of people in Azad Kashmir (where they’re trying to take over all of Kashmir). After I saw what these despicable Wahabi Mullahs were teaching our children, I cried. It was shameful and scornful what theses &#%^& had done to Islam and our country.
You can’t help it can you? Lie upon a lie but no references no authentic proof, but sheer false statements for people who you hate so much. Why? Because they tell you to follow Quran and Sunnah ONLY. If your parents saw you telling lies and disinformation like this, they would cry too.
Suddenly, you have experienced EVERYTHING there is about “wahabis,” yet you fail to provide ANY solid evidence, reference, proof about what books of Abdul Wahab(based strictly on ahadeeth books and Quran) say… isn’t this a moment of shame for you? That you clinging on bunch of lies and distorted information which you get from the enemies of islam, instead of clinging on facts and truth.
*I don’t have anything against Abdul Wahab, but the fact is that his teachings are responsible for the murder of thousands of Muslims and non-Muslims around the world. And this is a fact of life! The most dangerous terrorist groups in Pakistan are Wahabi. Do you think that is just a coincidence? *
You are perfect example of blind hypocrisy and a liar. What teachings, where do you get this info? His books teaching nothing about hatred or intolerance that you are talking about. I have read his books, so did many other guppies here. I think you should get out of this brainwashed mentality and read his books which are based upon the teachings in Sahi hadeeth books and Quran, there is nothing new in them.
Or you only create lies against “wahabis” because they don’t let you worship your grave-gods and saints and do other rituals of your grandparents which they acquired when they were influenced by hindu culture?
“And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you”[al-Nisa’ 4:29]
6:159 *As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
You are doing nothing but dividing the religion and trying to attribute lies and disinformation to people who never want to create another sect in Islam nor do they call themselves a sect, because its against the teachings of Islam and Sunnah. Although, prophet mohammad(pbuh) said that 72/73 sects will emerge in Islam and only one will go to jannah and rest of them will be in hell fire. And sahaba asked him which sect will that be and he replied the one who follows my straight path(SUNNAH and QURAN).
Man, he’s on a mission to divide the Muslims. He doesn’t need any references or honest facts for that. For example, when a ** Hindu ** attacks Islam, ** does he care ** about the truth or honest facts???
Simalarly, the enemies of Islam, who claim to be Muslims follow suit .
You see, Serial Guppy, now the enemies of Islam, have found a ** NEW EXCUSE ** to divide Islam. After repeated requests, to tell us what is so different about the “Wahhabis” - they have come up with a new excuse - ** "Oh it’s not in the books anymore !!! " ** What kind of BS logic is this???
If it is not in the books, then ** how do the people know about it??? ** Are you trying to say that the ** MILLIONS OF WAHHABIS ** have a ** SECRET PACT ** , and that ** noone from the non-Wahhbi side ** could figure that out???
If that’s your logic, then let me say a lot of nasty stuff about the Shias, and then explain it by saying , "Oh it’s not in the books anymore, but the millions of Shias have a secret pact, which they do not leak to anyone ! ".
** Faraz, **, you’ve been ** PROVEN ** to be a ** NASTY LIAR **. Before you claimed that Muhammad ibn 'Abdul Wahhab’s teachings are that if anyone opposes a Suicide Bomber, he’s a “Wahhabi” !!! (although ** Suicide Bombing ** did not even ** EXIST ** back then ).
Then, you ** quote ** from a ** “Wahhabi” website ** in one place, then ** bash the “Wahhabis” ** in another place. And, after ** REPEATED REQUESTS ** to explain this ** odd behavior ** of yours, you ** slip away. **
I dont’ want to waste my precious time explaining what a nasty liar you are. But ** Readers, ** please ** note **, that ** THOSE ** who ** OPPOSE ** the so-called “Wahhabis”, use the ** SAME NASTY TRICKS ** as a ** Kafir **(like a Hindu) uses to ** malign Islam. **
Does this prove something ???
So, ** Faraz, **, you have ** NO CREDIBILITY. ** So ** REFRAIN ** from ** Subjective ** arguments, or using ** personal experiences ** to prove your point, because they ** CANNOT ** be verified or ** PROVEN ** , especially, keeping in mind that you’ve been ** proven ** to be a ** nasty liar ** and have no credibility.
Is that the best you can do? That is , just give some personal experiences that noone can verify.
You ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism” !!!
Again, ** subjective ** argument. You have no credibility, so bring some ** OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE ** that can be ** VERIFIED. **
Or else, you’ll be considered to be a ** VICIOUS LIAR ** who hates Islam from the bottom of his heart.
** Faraz **, this is just tooo much to believe. Even a 3-year old can say it’s a fairy tale episode.
What if I tell you that I questioned the Mulla and he didn’t kill me ?? That’ll ** PROVE ** that you were ** VICIOUSLY LYING. **
And, again , you bring some ** subjective ** argument. ** WHY CAN’T YOU BRING SOME “OBJECTIVE” EVIDENCE ** for once against the “Wahhabis” ??
You ** STILL DIDN’T Define ** “Wahhabism” .
After repeated requests, to tell us what is so different about the “Wahhabis” - You obviously ** FAILED MISERABLY ** to define “Wahhabism”, and now you have come up with a new excuse - ** "Oh it’s not in the books anymore !!! " ** What kind of BS logic is this???
Rmbr, ** Faraz, I HAD CHALLENGED YOU OVER AND OVER AGAIN ** to prove your accusations against “Wahhabism” . If you were a man enough, you’d have accepted my challenge.
Is this the best you can do ?? That, once you fail miserably to respond to my challenge, you make up the excuse, " Oh, they have hidden it, it’s not present in the books !!! " ???
** Readers, ** please ** NOTE **. This person ** COULD NOT ACCEPT MY CHALLENGE ** to define “WAhhabism”, so now he has come up with a new lie that ** these things are not present in the Books !! **
So, in other words, he ** DOES REALIZE **, that ** HE IS WRONG **, but his ** hatred and bigotry ** is so much , that he’ll ** shamelessly ** go to any extent to ** LIE ** against the Muslims, and ** NEVER ACCEPT HIS MISTAKE **. This reminds me of ** Andhra ** and some other ** Hindu ** members on this forum. (Btw, ** “KUFR” ** means ** “CONCEALMENT” ** - and you’ll be able to conceal something only when you know about it. ** You cannot “conceal” (Kufr) something, when you are UNaware of it !!! **) .
Now, don’t accuse me I called you a Kaafir. I only described Kufr, and if you have a little smidgen of decency, you’ll try to speak the truth.
. I’ve also mentioned the same thing above, in different words.
**
Exactly, Can you see the ** EXTENT ** to which he is eagerly willing to ** LIE VICIOUSLY without any CONSCIENCE ** ???
Isn’t it very very similar to how the ** Hindus ** attack Islam ???
Hmmm.. ** Hindus attack Islam in such a vicious manner, because they know that Islam is the truth, so they try to “CONCEAL” (KUFR) it as viciously as they can . **
**
Yes, where is the ** PROOF ** ???
Don’t you have any conscience faceup ?? or do you ** HATE Mainstream Islam ** so viciously that you have put aside all morals and conscience ???
A ** lot of the “Hanafis” are “Wahhabis” - for example, the Taliban ** .
Can you please ** explain ** that ???
**
** WHAT PROOF ** do you have of that??
Same is your case as of “Faraz”. YOu’ve been ** UNABLE TO DEFINE ** “Wahhabism”, so you’ve come up with the same excuse as that of Faraz.
What if I ** accuse Khomeini ** of some nasty things, and say that those documents have been hidden by the Shia lobby?? Would that be enough of a proof against you and your people???
You have already shown your ** DISDAIN for Islam ** by slandering those Mujahideen who conquered such a huge territory right after the death of the Holy Prophet (S) . That post of yours was ** so vulgar ** that it obviously was deleted.
So, Why do people who ** HATE ISLAM SO MUCH **, are one of the first ones to attack “Wahhabism” ??? Is it because you ** SHARE YOUR LOYALTY WITH THE KAFIRS ??? **
Why do you hate the ** Mainstream Muslims ** so much ???
Readers please note .
**
Again, it shows the ** INTENSITY OF DISDAIN AND HATRED ** you’ve for ** ISLAM **.
Readers, please note - Such people of a ** minority sect ** who ** HATE ISLAM WITH A PASSION ** are on the ** forefront ** in their ** attack on “Wahhabism”. ** Maybe that is because, they ** desperately ** want to ** DIVIDE ** the Muslims, and they harbour an ** intense, vicious hatred for AUTHENTIC ISLAM **, and they desire severely to ** corrupt ** the beliefs and religion of ** Mainstream Muslims. **
The Messenger of Allah(saws) said: 'You shall not enter paradise until you believe, and you shall not believe until you love one another. Shall i not inform you of something, if you were to act upon it, you will indeed achieve mutual love for one another? Spread the greeting amongst yourselves'
Brothers this is getting us NO WHERE, so just drop it. You aren't helping one another, just making things worse.
Invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. (An-Nahl 16:125)
Aapkiamaanat: Please see all the killing of the shias and others who did not agree with the wahabbi nutcases in pakistan and other places, before you so are so generous towards them. Good for you Faraz. I wish I had the time and the determination to take the fanatics on like you are doing. Keep up the good work. Let us reclaim common sense from the nutcases.